Speaker 0 00:00:01 You are listening to right on radio on KPI 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Liz Alz. Tonight on right on radio. Josh will be talking with Julie L'Enfant author of Hazel Belvaux of her arc of art. Really long fall was a professor of art history at the college of visual arts in St. Paul she's written several books on regional art history, including the gag family, German Bohemian artists in America and pioneer modernists. Minnesota is first generation of women artists,
Speaker 1 00:00:36 And I'm Josh Webber in the last part of the hour. Liz talked with Christopher Zeda. He's the author of the storm. One voice from the AIDS generation. He has over 30 years of investment management and senior level corporate finance experience at several high profile growth companies, including the Walt Disney company, amazon.com and eBay all the, some more. So stay tuned to right on radio. All right, Julie, can you hear me all right. We are live on the air. If you're ready for your first or for your reading, you are welcome to go.
Speaker 2 00:01:24 All right, I'm going to read a portion of the book about Belvaux Hazel. Belvaux going to New York in 1960 in coming of age in the sixties. Belvaux wrote about moving to New York at age 25, and I'm quoting two months after the exhibition in Dayton. I moved to New York city where some form of the experience of being discriminated against as a woman artist happened daily. I learned fast and soaked up the art world, Greenwich village, the East village, the Cedar bar Dylan's bar, the galleries, the Tuesday night openings happenings, Alan Kay pro class Oldenburg, Jim dine, jazz bird, land, Gerry Mulligan art dealers, the Whitney museum MoMA, the mat, the new school, the curators, the artists. I found myself sitting in the seat or bar with George Morrison, John Webber, Alan dark Angelo. So George Morrison took Belvaux to the Cedar bar, the very evening of their arrival in New York.
Speaker 2 00:02:48 That first night at the Cedar bar in 1960, Belvaux met bill de Kooning, bronze Klein and Herman cherry. She only gradually realized they were, but she was quick to learn when she and Morrison returned to the car, which had been parked outside, they found that someone had stolen all their belongings. They went to the apartment of Ruth speaker, who would become a good friend to Belvaux as well as Morrison speaker and you, everyone in the New York art world and gave frequent parties. She was an activist for artists and would soon actuate an idea Belvaux and others to campaign mayor John Lindsay, for the legalization of loft, living for artists. This became the AI, our program, artists and residents in the meantime, artists were living in the lofts of old office buildings and warehouses not zoned as residences Morrison had an illegal loft on ninth street for many years. The first abode of Malveaux and Morrison in New York was the sublet of a small apartment at two 16 East sixth street in the East village Morrison devoted 10 days to introducing Belle, voted New York, taking her to the museums, artists studios, and the major sites. They went on a circle line tour around Manhattan. New York provided an in-depth education and art, both traditional and contemporary, and what she saw and learned planted the seeds of her later work.
Speaker 1 00:04:24 Very good. Thank you. That was Julie Long phone reading from her new work. Hazel. Belvaux a matriarch of art. Julie has written several books on Minnesota artists for Afton press, including pioneer, modernist, Minnesota first generation of women, artists, and Nicholas, our brewer, his art and family. Welcome to write on radio, Julie, thank you. My first question, the book is called Hazel Belvaux and matriarch of art. Why is Hazel Bellville considered a matriarch of art?
Speaker 2 00:04:54 Well, for many reasons, I think Hazel was born in 1890, sorry, 1934. And she is now 86 years old. And in her maturity, she is still producing a great deal of art. She works every day. Uh, so she's a remarkable figure. And I hit upon this notion of calling her a matriarch. Well, for one reason, uh, feminism has been very important in Hazel's life and career. She was raised basically by her mother and her grandmother who had the strongest figures in for her life. Both were very creative, strong figures who were extremely supportive of her. And she, uh, began from a very early age to depend on the women and her life for, uh, far support. And she considered her family, a matriarchy as she, uh, moved forward and grew up. She challenged, uh, patriarchal notions in many ways in however, a very gentle and, um, uh, not an in an aggressive way, but simply by the force of her own drive and her self-confidence.
Speaker 2 00:06:26 So that's one thing, feminism. Another thing is that, uh, she has valued her family throughout her career. Uh, she certainly not an artist who put art above everything. Her, uh, one reason her life is so fascinating is that she such a successful artist and yet has maintained such strong family connections. Uh, she's also deeply connected to friends and of course, both men and women, and it's this sense of connection. I think that, uh, uh, helps me think of her as a matriarch today. And finally she is the mentor to many artists and many, many friends as well. She's what we might call a wise woman. And mentorship for Hazel is a mutual process. It's not a question of telling other people what to do, but rather a mutual process where she learns from her students and brands. Um, and in this way, I think she's at the head of a family of friends, former students, um, um, and of course her own family, which consists of consisted of three sons and now many grandchildren. And great-grandchildren,
Speaker 1 00:07:53 I thought it was interesting. I noted when I was first reading, how it describing bevels work, Robert Cozolino. He describes her work with words like branches and tangibles and roots and swirls and DNA. It suggests something biological or naturalistic that's present in her work. Would you say that's true?
Speaker 2 00:08:13 Oh, that's absolutely true. Um, many listeners may know of Hazel bell foes work on this spirit tree. Uh, this is the little spirit Cedar tree at grand Portage, uh, reservation, uh, in Lake superior in this, the Cedar tree is sacred to the <inaudible> Indians and she has done more than 400 works of art in different mediums, uh, on this single tree. Uh, and, uh, so that's really the best known part of her work, but it goes to the very beginning for her. She was very interested in science, particularly biology and botany, very interested in the plant and animal life on the farm in Southern Ohio, where she grew up. Um, she later had literally studied, uh, botany in unimportant book for her called biology of plants, uh, which gives, uh, microscopic views of, uh, at, at the cellular level of plants and trees. And it's led to earlier work such as her white paintings, uh, which, uh, when you see them from a distance look like they're a single color, but when examined very closely, as she herself said, uh, have seats, seeds, roots, and tendrils, they are very much based on biologically accurate, uh, versions.
Speaker 2 00:09:58 I particularly like a series of prints called Wolf moon. Uh, and this has to do with, um, the way the moon, the phase of the moon on December 18th, which is Hazel's birthday a time when plants are dormant and yet they're growing underground. She's very interested in this germination process. And many of her works of the seventies of 80 and eighties have to do with germination. And then later, uh, she actually did some what she called biologically accurate drawings, which are beautifully, uh, realistically rendered plants close up. Uh, and then in the eighties, she began her monumental paintings and drawings of the spirit tree. So much of our work really does have to do with, uh, uh, scientifically accurate, uh, studies of nature.
Speaker 1 00:11:11 You described Bella's work has something to bride from internal necessity. How would you define internal necessity? And what does that look like in visual art?
Speaker 2 00:11:22 Yeah. Well, internal necessity is a phrase that she, uh, got from vastly Kandinsky, the great Russian born, uh, German artist of the early 20th century and a book. He wrote the spiritual, uh, Oh my goodness, this spiritual connections of art. I think I'm so sorry. I'm not thinking of the exact title right this moment, but, um, uh, condense, he described, um, a drive that is within those who are meant to be artists, some something internal that demands expression. And, uh, she has, uh, really adapted, uh, Kandinsky's idea and made it the core of her own artistic practice and her teaching as well. Um, and, and if you'll
Speaker 3 00:12:27 Allow me, let me read her, uh,
Speaker 2 00:12:30 A paragraph or two about internal necessity.
Speaker 3 00:12:36 The
Speaker 2 00:12:36 Lodestar for teaching philosophy has continued to be vastly Kandinsky's concerning the spiritual and art. There's that title, a set of principles for expressionists art, the idea that something within them demands expression,
Speaker 3 00:12:55 The artist
Speaker 2 00:12:56 Must watch her own enter inner life and listen, pay attention, and honor the demand of his, her internal necessity. This is the only way to express the mystical necessity of the soul. She wrote in a handout for one of her classes yet, and this is really important. She was not encouraging Le Belvaux was not encouraging or condoning solid facism meaning just dwelling on your own internal, uh, uh, feelings for, she also noted that quote, every artist is a child of his, her time impel to express the spirit of his or her age socially and politically, on the other hand, the artist must not simply illustrate aesthetic or political theory in real art. She wrote theory does not pre-seed practice, but follows it. Everything is at first, a matter of feeling. In other words, this internal assessment is an urge or a demand inside that you express yourself.
Speaker 2 00:14:09 And yet Belvaux has always told her students, and then her work reflects this as well. You have to be aware of what's going on outside of you socially, culturally, politically, and your work must include the world itself. Uh, and here's a, another key point. A crucial requirement of working from internal necessity is relying upon one's own critical judgment, trust, the significance and value of your work, no matter what anyone else says, she States, um, it is the responsibility of the artist herself to determine the quality or character of her work. So what she's saying here is that internal assessed, the date is, uh, some sort of a demand for self-expression that is ignored at the peril of your health and wellbeing. It really demands self-expression, but it also requires connection with the world. And a key point here is that the work is to be judged by the artist, him or herself, you, um, and that's, that's, that's the key point of an internal necessity that the artist is the best judge of his or her own work. It gives you a kind of freedom. They also huge responsibility
Speaker 1 00:15:55 Requires you, I think, to have a real deep sense of yourself though, at least it's a very internal process. You have to come back to always an almost, um, it's like almost a meta reflection on your own being in a way. That's very interesting.
Speaker 4 00:16:06 Yeah. Bellville don't please go ahead. No,
Speaker 2 00:16:11 I'm just saying that you've expressed that well,
Speaker 1 00:16:15 Well, in her own words, it says of her approach to teaching is conscious raising. She seeks to draw out what is already in her students. I was wondering, you could talk about what that process is like, and if you witnessed this an action yourself, or have you experienced this personally?
Speaker 2 00:16:31 I wish I could say yes and no, I haven't. I've read about it a good deal. Um, this is what it looks like. Um, it, it derives from the sort of things that women feminists were doing in the early 1970s. Um, perhaps re uh, listeners are familiar with warm, the women's art resource of Minnesota. It's now called the, um, women's art resource of Minnesota, I believe. And it began with women banding together, banding together in order to, uh, find exhibition space because women were having trouble becoming, uh, parts of galleries and, uh, needed their own, uh, spaces to get their work out there. And, uh, one of the methods, um, of warm and other feminist groups in the early 1970s was to simply, uh, meet together and talk about life experiences, which was often quite affirming where women had felt alone and without, um, any kind of, uh, real support for their work.
Speaker 2 00:18:05 It was very affirming and encouraging to talk together and to reflect on the, uh, their experiences and how much they had in common. And, uh, this seemed to produce a great deal of new work, a new kind of work. And, uh, Belvaux became very interested in using this, these techniques with her teaching. It's very different from what she thought of as the masculine style that she had encountered early on at the Dayton art Institute, for example. And she has described it to me as the male teacher standing in front of the class and saying, this is how it's done. The feminist approach in contrast is to, uh, rather than show students how to paint, to draw out from students, what their experience is, what they want to express and to learn how to turn that into visual art. Now, I went to Louisiana state university and I was not an art student, but, uh, I remember the joke that students came into the art department at LSU painting and drawing all different kinds of ways.
Speaker 2 00:19:37 And they all came out as angry abstract expression. And, uh, so I told him he's a laughed at that because it did fit, um, kind of remodel in the 1960s where, uh, students were really told what kind, what was new and what I should be doing. And of course in the 1960s, as they progressed, it was definitely abstract experts, fresh aneurysm, but I don't want to leave you with the idea that her teaching has been all about just delving into one's own story, because she is also has also been an expert at teaching studio techniques. And she's always begun her classes with instructions on visual language, you know, um, the elements of a formal technical drawing and moving from visual language on to structure and form. Um, I particularly liked now, I think one of the most important chapters of the book is on making personal art, which is a workshop that she did for many years at the grand marae art colony.
Speaker 2 00:20:58 And it uses this consciousness raising technique of talked about a students, sat in a circle, which she regards as, as a kind of sacred circle, exploring life stories and how this would be expressed, how this could be visually expressed. So you're getting from my description, the idea that a internal necessity is going to produce different kinds of work with every different artist. So there's really no particular form. It's going to take a, but it's a way of affirming for the many people who have an urge to make art, that it is something genuine, something that should be honored and that there are many different ways they can go with this.
Speaker 1 00:21:49 That was, I think that's a great point to leave on right now. We are out of time, but Julie, thank you so much for being here. If you're just tuning in, you were listening to me, have a talk with Julia LeFon about her new work. Hazel. Belvaux a matriarch of art from Afton press Julie, once again. Thanks for being here on, right on radio with us. Thank you. And now this Christopher, are you there?
Speaker 5 00:22:16 Yes. The world for me started to go off the rails in December, 1984, and it started with Ryan White, a 13 year old haemophiliac boy in Kokomo, Indiana, who was diagnosed with AIDS after he was exposed to the virus by a contaminated blood treatment. Ryan White instantly changed the discussion in America about AIDS and proved that the mushrooming epidemic would touch everyone regardless of sex, age and sexual orientation on a parallel track to Ryan. White's heartbreaking saga by December, 1984 AIDS had fully breached the walls of West Hollywood's Camelot. I remember the AIDS virus changing the world so quickly in an instant. I felt as though a giant black hole opened up and started swallowing people into it during a time of what should have been youth optimism, possibilities, and happiness. Instead, death and dying suddenly surrounded me. His friends fell sick and died from the AIDS virus, a surreal and horrifying insanity.
Speaker 5 00:23:21 It all happened as if someone had flipped a switch to teleport the world into a new reality. The athletic club started to post the AIDS obituaries of its members on a bulletin board right next to the Jim's front desk. It traumatized me to see this Chronicle of death. Each time I went to the gym articles and photos of vibrant young men, whom I knew who now were dead, a McCobb but a necessary one because people were disappearing every day. This was the devastating backdrop to my growing relationship with Steven stigmatism and ostracism ran wild. Many of our friends upon their AIDS diagnoses simply chose to ostracize themselves and disappear from public out of shame. We would only see them again in hospitals or all too often, never hear from our about them again until their obituary appeared on the athletic clubs bulletin board beginning in 1985, our friends started to leave Los Angeles to scatter everywhere because of the virus.
Speaker 5 00:24:24 I couldn't keep track of where people went, where he did. Was he dying in a hospital somewhere? Did he move back to his hometown to be with family? Did he go on disability and move to Palm Springs to die alone in a $10,000 condominium? Did he go back into the closet? The answer was all of the above has people scattered because of AIDS. So did my life. I aged much more than a year in 1985. I was only 23 years old that year. I started to spend evenings and weekends visit visiting friends in the hospitals. I remember seeing worried grieving partners and friends sitting stone faced in hospital, waiting rooms alongside me, all of us, trying to comprehend the reality of our reality. What do we do now? The AIDS virus has turned the whole world against us. My AIDS grief was a constant process like watching, repeating slow motion, film unfolding right in front of me over and over and knowing how the film ended always in death in 1985 AIDS treatments only delayed the inevitable because at that time the treatments were worthless.
Speaker 0 00:25:36 Thank you. We're talking with Christopher, either author of the storm, one voice from the eighth generation. Boy, I have so many questions to ask you that we won't get to all of them tonight. I do want to say very first off that after reading the book, I feel like it's a very important historical memoir and a very moving personal memoir. So, uh, uh, that's the general thing I got out of it. Um, why don't we just move right to the part where Stephen is diagnosed with, uh, AIDS and I, you had said you were afraid that you had it too, or you kind of knew you had it too. And I'm wondering how you coped with that.
Speaker 5 00:26:18 Well, um, it unfolded slowly as he started to show more symptoms. That just seemed very puzzling to me. And of course we'd seen these symptoms in some of our other friends and, um, and it was a very terrible reality that I finally confronted. Um, and I had, you know, I'd started my career in life after college had to, to, to be a writer. And I realized that he was, he was had AIDS. I was sure I had it too. And I needed to make some really difficult decisions at a very dark time of my life to, to cope with that. And, and ultimately that's what led me to, uh, shelve my writing career and to go to business school and get an MBA. So I would have money to pay for our healthcare.
Speaker 0 00:27:05 After you realized he had the diagnosis and you both decided that you were going to, with your life, you're going to Carpe diem. And what did that mean to you and how did you do that? It's very optimistic in the face of a horrible thing.
Speaker 5 00:27:26 Yes. Um, well, it came from Steven. I mean, he had almost died in, um, in the hospital from pneumocystis pneumonia, which was one of the illnesses that had killed a number of people that we knew. And, um, he had recovered and, um, he just decided that he was going to make the best of whatever was left in his life. And, um, and it was a wonderful thing to see him do because he had been really struggling with life on a lot of different levels up until that point. And, um, and I went along with it because, um, it was a great way to be, I, I, and I, we just decided that we were going to do some traveling, uh, on very shoestring budgets because we did not have money. Um, and we were going to just really make the most of whatever, whatever time he had left. And we didn't know how much there would be. Um, it turned out that there was about three years, um, still left. Um, and we packed in a lot of great memories and in a lot of ways, some of the most memorable things from my relationship with him happened after he, he did almost die in that hospital. That, that time,
Speaker 0 00:28:30 Um, talk about taking care of him as he, uh, got worse and finally passed away.
Speaker 5 00:28:41 Well, sure. Um, well, you know, it, when you, in, back in the 1980s, if you were taking care of somebody with AIDS, it, it happened little by little and it, and that sort of, you know, it wasn't, uh, it was a slow, slow death. Um, and there were, there were drugs that tried to prolong life, but, you know, they, none of them really worked. And so he just had a general decline in energy, a general decline in his weight. Um, there were bouts of times when we did have to rush off to the doctor or to the hospital to take her to cover something that had gotten out of control. He was on, uh, a drug study at UCLA for some, some drugs that were in a trial that seemed to be working miracles on him for awhile. Um, but this was all done. Wow, this all happened while I was getting my MBA at UCLA.
Speaker 5 00:29:31 And then I started working at the Walt Disney company in a very high-profile stressful corporate finance job, which was demanding a lot of time during the day. And so I was juggling a lot of balls. I'm feeling very guilty about having to be working during the day to make money so we could pay for everything. And then also keeping, trying to keep an eye on him and keep tabs on him when I was, when he was at home or when he was, um, you know, out and about doing what he was trying to do. And, um, and ultimately, um, the stress really got to me as he got sicker and sicker and sicker. So it was a real, it was the biggest challenge of my life, you know, lose my light partner, who I love tremendously, also feeling guilty about having a career and working, and I'm trying to build a career that would last for after he was gone and, um, and take care of him and give him the care he needed and fight with doctors and fight with insurance companies. And we were fighting the whole world at times. It seemed, um, because everybody really was against people with AIDS back then.
Speaker 0 00:30:33 Yeah. Your fight continued after he passed away as the difficult thing I'm sure to talk about, but it's historically very significant. I think the, uh, uh, young people don't realize some of the things that happen. And the thing I'm thinking of specifically is how Steven's parents treated you after the, um, his passing. And I'm wondering if he would be willing to talk a little bit about that. I'm sure it's hard to talk about, but would you be willing to,
Speaker 5 00:31:00 Yes, I can talk about it. Um, well, back in 1991, when he died, you know, gays and lesbians didn't have the protections of marriage yet. And so what was very common and it was, it was, this is not the, this is very common that parents of the deceased partner would come in and really treat the surviving partner terribly. And I, we had seen it happen to some other of our friends, um, before Steven died. And, um, I wasn't, I didn't think it would happen to me because Steven didn't have, he died with only debts. He didn't have money and there was really nothing for anybody to fight about, but his parents were, um, they were from a small town in Virginia. They were very, uh, the, they were, they were certainly homophobic. Ultimately, I think we proved that. Um, but they threw, locked me out of my house.
Speaker 5 00:31:55 Uh, one day when I went back to work at Disney, this was three weeks after Steven died and I had just gone back to work and they decided they were going to take everything. And they thought that everything in the house belonged to Steven. So it was the heirs and, and, um, it was ridiculous because the furniture wasn't, you know, nothing in the house was very expensive. We didn't have a lot of money. And, um, and they locked me out of my house, which was, you know, a horrifying, terrible traumatizing for me, but it made me very angry. And so I sued them and we had a lawsuit that went on just for a little bit over a year, um, which with tons of drama, so I could go on for hours about it, but it was, um, you know, dealing with these crazy parents who, uh, they even, they, they ended packing everything in the house up and taking it back to Virginia, including Mike, my college and my business school diploma, my high school diploma, um, all of my clothes, a lot of my personal papers, everything.
Speaker 5 00:32:52 Um, and it was very traumatizing for me, but ultimately, um, I, I beat them in court. Um, we did settle, but, uh, I would have beat them and we'd gone to the verdict. And, um, and, uh, I was a, it was an important part of my life to stand up for myself and really, for other friends who had gone through similar situations to just, I had, luckily I had the money to pay for lawyers at the time. And, um, and it was a principle issue for me. I wasn't going to let them dishonor our relationship just because they were homophobic.
Speaker 0 00:33:22 And you did, eventually you say this in the book that eventually you came to some peace about it and perhaps some forgiveness for them. Uh, uh, how did that come about?
Speaker 5 00:33:34 Well, it actually happened in the courtroom that we were in, you know, I had put on my case, um, and lots of people had testified in Steven's father got up on the stand and, and, um, he was very combative with my attorney and ultimately blurted out, uh, Steven wasn't gay. And this was after friends had testified that we were together. We, we had a loving relationship and the judge who really was a wonderful judge, he turned to his Stephen's father and said, you know, your son, he was gay, that's already been proven in this. And, um, and then he just sat there and stunned silence. And, um, we had gone through so much in this lawsuit. I mean, I, I, at this point back and forth fighting and, um, accusations, and I just decided at that moment that it was time to settle. And that was also the time when, um, his parents' attorneys dragged them into a conference room.
Speaker 5 00:34:31 And I think read them the riot act and pointed out that they were going to lose. And, and I didn't want to, I didn't want to end up winning lots of money from them and end up owning their house and being their landlord. It wasn't that wasn't the point, the point was for them to really respect our relationship. And so we settled in and I set out the terms of our settlement and they, um, they agreed to them. He didn't really abide by many of them. So I did drag them back into court later to make them do it. But, um, I did forgive them at that moment because I realized that this was really the best that they can do in life. And sometimes I've learned in Pete people, um, they make a lot of choices and ultimately your choices become your character in life. And if you make enough bad choices, your character can be really terrible. And ultimately you can only do what you can do. And I decided to forgive them, they had done the best that they could do. Uh, and I forgot, forgot them after that. And, um, they never contacted me again, once we finished the lawsuit,
Speaker 0 00:35:34 You know, I have to say, despite the difficult nature of memoir, you never descend into self-pity, even when you're talking about the Stephen's parents from that whole mess, and you did on the positive side, have a great deal of support, not just from your friends, but also from the Disney corporation where you worked. And I was wondering if you would be willing to talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 5 00:35:57 Oh, the Disney corporation. I mean, Walt Disney was wonderful. I mean, I had been working there full-time after business school for, um, just about two years when I finally came out to my colleagues and, uh, I was terrified to come out there. Cause I knew we had a lot of gays and lesbians working in the film division, but I was in corporate finance, which is a much different culture. It's more like wall street and my entire department, all the professionals were men. Um, but I was really close to a breakdown with Steven getting sicker and sicker. And, um, and I had been in therapy and my therapist convinced me it was time to come out and I did. And I went to the treasurer of Disney and came out to him. And the first thing out of his mouth was I, I'm so sorry you're going through this.
Speaker 5 00:36:41 You know, whatever you need from me, let me know. I'll give you an advance on your salary if you need it. Um, and then I went from him, I went to the chief financial officer for the company, and these were two men that I worked very closely with. And the CFO said the same thing, you know, we're so, you know, we just want to support you, what can we do? And I told my entire department and I told my friends in the legal department. And I mean, by the end of that one day, I told everybody that I'd worked with at Disney, that I was gay. And I had a partner who was dying from AIDS. And, um, and it was tremendously freeing and Disney was so supportive for the rest of Stephen's life. He only lived for six more, six, seven more months after that, but didn't, he was wonderful. They didn't make me travel. Cause I had a job that travel a lot and they were, if I needed to, um, work a little bit shorter hours at times that they were fine with that. And they were just tremendous
Speaker 0 00:37:34 Speaking of entertainment, uh, I'm a kind of a student of Broadway and I know that the AIDS pandemic cut a swath through the entertainment industry industry in New York. And I'm wondering if it did also in Los Angeles?
Speaker 5 00:37:51 Oh yes. I mean, there were, um, many high profile people who died from AIDS, you know, starting with rock Hudson who was really the first, um, big name that died from it. But one of the things I do in my book, um, as part of the marker of the advance of the pandemic is I do mention various high profile people from the arts and entertainment communities who died from AIDS. Um, and I did that as part of my research on the book because it helped me remember my story and place certain events in the right timeline. Because, um, when I first started writing this book, I was not sure how much I would remember of what had happened because I had spent 26 years really running away from it. And I'm going back to this part of my life, which is really the most challenging, scary, sad part of my life. I wasn't sure what was going to happen. And so I, I made a list of songs that were on the radio during those hours, those years. Um, I looked up all Los Angeles history and it really helped me remember what had happened and how, and put it into the right order.
Speaker 0 00:38:58 Who did you want to reach with this book? Was it more that you wanted to reach a fellow folks who lived through that time or did you want to reach younger GLBT Q plus people, uh, with, to give them another sense of history of gay lesbian people or, uh, who do you feel like the audience is for the book?
Speaker 5 00:39:22 I think the audience is there. There's three really big groups where for young gay and lesbian people and young people in general, whether they're gay or not, it's a part of American history. That's not too long ago that isn't really in the history books yet. So you don't learn it. And then it gives you a real insight into how the world really became crazy because of the AIDS virus. That's one group. Um, then the second group, I think is people who are my age. So I'm 58 years old now who are, who are not gay. So the heterosexual community who everybody at this point has had no somebody, or at least one or two people who died from AIDS and they have their own experience with the virus. And to hear for them to hear what it was like to be in the gay community during those years, I think it's been, you know, my straight friends who've read it, have, have thought that that was a really great way for them to understand and better.
Speaker 5 00:40:19 And then I think finally for people who are men who are gay my age and older, who really lived through it, it's a book that can be traumatizing, but also incredibly cathartic if, if they can have the strength to read it. Um, when I first, when I finished my first draft, I made my husband read it. And he was the first person who read it from, read the whole book from start to finish. And he, he was upset for two days afterwards. Cause it, it reminded him of all the friends he had lost along the way. But I think it's a, it's a broadly applicable book, not just because of AIDS, but because of how a person deals with challenges in their life because everybody's life takes a turn. Um, and we all get thrown and unexpected challenge. And, um, we have a choice for how we deal with those challenges, whether we're going to persevere and fight or if we're going to become better and, and not fight. And for me, I've always been a fighter. And, um, and I think when I think back to my childhood, I was, I was really a handful from a year, a very young age with my parents and with my teachers and going to catechism. Um, and I think all of that really was what I needed to get through this challenge of my life.
Speaker 0 00:41:34 You mentioned catechism, I'm wondering if spirituality or even religion helped you in this or was it just kind of existed, but it wasn't really helpful to you?
Speaker 5 00:41:48 Well, that's a great question. I am a very spiritual person. I, um, I left, I ultimately left the Roman Catholic church, um, in the two thousands, but, um, I think that the Catholic church has some very wonderful spirituality at its core. The problem I've always had with the Catholic church is that there's a lot of, there's a lot of man-made rules and a lot of judgment that comes in that, um, makes it not a very welcoming place for a lot of people who are not, you know, people like me and, um, but I'm very spiritual and Steven was very religious. Um, he was actually, he went to church all the time and, um, and what I, what I think really helped me get through it from a spiritual perspective is just, you know, believing that there is, there is a bigger picture to everything that we go through on this planet.
Speaker 5 00:42:38 And, um, and to always try to make a choice from a right, from a good place. And, and for me in the way that I live my life, as I always try to make the right choice, the fair choice, the choice that is, you know, even if it doesn't, if it's not the right choice for me personally. And, um, I have to say that being older now and looking back on my life, I'm really proud of the choices that I I have made and I continue to make, because it allows me to sleep at night and to be really proud of the friends and family that I have today
Speaker 0 00:43:10 That really comes through in the book. I have to say, it's for a book that's about such a painful and difficult time. There's a great deal of optimism here. Uh, for, for people who are going through a hard time, you know, I think making the right choices, you know, what, what do we say, do the next right thing, uh, is, uh, it's a good way to live. Um, we are in the midst of a pandemic right now and it's getting a little more help than the AIDS pandemic. Did I have to say the vaccine has certainly arrived in fast fashion, but, uh, what, what do you have to say to people who are living through a pandemic right now?
Speaker 5 00:43:52 Well, I see a lot of parallels to the COVID-19 pandemic, um, with the AIDS pandemic, um, especially in the early months, you know, when we are in March and April and may I remember thinking, Whoa, this is like days off Ooh. In a lot of ways, because, um, you had people suddenly just not want to go out and not want to talk. You know, we didn't know how COVID was trans transmitted at first. You know, we didn't know if masks worked or not, or, and then at the beginning of the AIDS virus, we didn't really know how it transmitted it and, you know, and there was, and then there became the whole issue of people who didn't want to wear masks. And that's sort of corollary to the people who didn't want wear condoms. Once we've learned that condoms really could help protect you from getting AIDS and, um, and then even to, um, moving away.
Speaker 5 00:44:40 So there was all in Los Angeles with COVID, there was a large, a lot of people have moved away from Los Angeles because they didn't want to be in a big city. They wanted to move to the country or, you know, get it, buy a house. And, uh, you know, uh, the, the, uh, rural section somewhere and, um, in AIDS in the early days of AIDS, men just moved out of LA and went back home and went to places where, you know, no one knew them. Um, that's, that's a, and then also the politicization of COVID-19, you know, is been on the same score, if not worse than a lot of ways than the AIDS virus was politicized. And so there's so many, and the thing about viruses there, they happen in the world. They happen periodically. They're going to happen again. And that's just part of the human condition. And I think in my book, I write about 10 different viruses that have happened in history. Um, and it's just part of humanity. And so when they happen, people should, should support each other more instead of having so much division.
Speaker 0 00:45:44 I totally agree. Well, we're almost done, uh, just a couple minutes left. Why don't you let us know what life is like now
Speaker 5 00:45:53 Life is really great. I mean, I have this incredible investment management business where I work with ultra high net worth families and foundations. And, um, I am working 75 hours a week and my day job, and I have 10 wonderful employees that helped me make it possible. And, um, one of the challenges of writing this book was three. I wrote this book three years ago, was finding the time to actually do it. So I wrote my book at night and on weekends and on airplanes. Um, and, um, I juggle a lot of balls and they continue to do that. And I'm really excited about finally releasing this, finding a publisher and releasing this book and some of the positive, um, feedback that I've received so far from people like you. And, um, it's just a wonderful to finally be able to come back to my original writing dream and realize it in some fashion before the end of my life. I'm very, very proud that I was finally able to check that box.
Speaker 0 00:46:54 You should be proud of that. As I said, it's an important work in my mind and also very moving we're done. We don't have any more time left. Yeah, it's been wonderful. We've been talking with Christopher <inaudible> author of the storm, one voice from the age generation. Thank you, Christopher.
Speaker 5 00:47:11 Thank you so much, Liz. It was a pleasure.
Speaker 0 00:47:14 Yes, it was a pleasure for me too. And now this
Speaker 6 00:47:21 <inaudible>,
Speaker 8 00:47:35 You are listening to ride on radio on KFA 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Annie. I'd like to thank our guests tonight, Julie L'Enfant and Christopher Zita. Plus our listeners who make this show possible without your support and donations KFI would not be possible. You can find more news and info about right on radio at cafe.org/program/right on radio.
