Speaker 1 00:00:16 All right, everyone is that time of the hour. You're listening to right on radio on cafe 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Josh Webber. And tonight on, right on radio, Liz old's talks with Naomi Hera Hora about her book Clark and division and mystery set in the Japanese, the Japanese America of Chicago during world war II, with emphasis on the effects the camps had on families in that community. In the last part of the hour, we'll be featuring a special legacy episode. You'll hear an interview from deep, within the red on radio archive from long ago, all the, some more. So stay tuned to rate on a radio.
Speaker 2 00:00:58 They only hear you there.
Speaker 3 00:01:00 I share him,
Speaker 2 00:01:02 Hey, why don't we start with that? The synopsis, a little synopsis of the book in a reading.
Speaker 3 00:01:06 Sure. Um, Clark and division, which by the way, is the intersection in Chicago where a lot of Japanese Americans move to after being incarcerated in one of the 10 camps during world war two. Um, so the book is about two things. It's about sisterhood and it's also about a Japanese American family, the ITO family, um, and the older daughter is rose and the younger daughter is AKI and she, um, idolizes her older sister and they from Los Angeles, they are, um, sent to Nancy dinar, um, detention center during world war two. And then, um, through early release program, rose is able to go to Chicago several months later, um, AKI and the book is told from hockey's point of view AKI and her parents, um, follow only to discover something tragic has happened to both. And now it's up to AKI, the younger sister to find out what happened as well as to carry her immigrant parents through this chaos, chaotic period of their lives.
Speaker 3 00:02:29 So that's essentially, um, the synopsis. And so I'll do a very brief reading. Um, and this is the family, the AKI and her parents are on their way to Chicago on the train. Whenever we turned to our seats, most of my makeup was on my handkerchief. As I cleanse my face with some cold water pop had already fallen asleep. The brim of his hat lowered over his eyes, sticking out from the band with the edge of the paper. Now completely yellowed that listed location of our earthly belongings in Los Angeles. I wonder if boots were me to set the station. Mom said we hadn't heard from roads for a couple of weeks. I had sent her a telegram with our Chicago arrival date, but didn't receive a response back. We weren't worried at the time. It wasn't like she could call us in camp. Mom suspected Rhodes with lovesick about some young men in the city on the train.
Speaker 3 00:03:32 We saw Nisei GIS have some in their pressed uniforms. And I imagined that. So unlike that had captured Rose's heart, as we've got closer to our destination, I could tell pop was skinning excited. It was sitting straight up as the train lurch back and forth. He kept looking out the window and back toward the passengers leaving and entering. Oh, to see the flash of Rose's smile, that in itself would be enough for me. When we finally arrived at union station pop with the first out the door with his one suitcase, the train station was so huge and grant wood logistic, white colored marble walls, a huge war bonds poster was on display below the clock while the flags of military allies, the United States, great Britain, France and Australia hung down by the vertical beam from the center of the station was a USO desk to serve all the soldiers who were on leave and needed instructions on the best accommodations and recreation.
Speaker 3 00:04:37 As we stumbled into this mess and humanity, we saw a group of Japanese Americans walking toward it. I recognize one of our former new state camp leaders at Tameda ed had hightailed out of Nanton art as soon as he could. His face was round and smooth. If he had to shave every day, I would be surprised. Then I spotted Roy and his slicked back hair grouping a bit in the may heat. I first felt embarrassed that there was this welcome party for us. We were simply, they eat toast. The former Los Angeles POTUS manager, his wife and younger daughter. I searched the group for my sister, but there was no bright smile. Lipstick applied perfectly. In spite of the humidity something's happened. I could barely hear Mr. Tom loader his voice over the hubbub in the building. Well, I couldn't look at it. There was an accident at the subway station last night. He said before he could declare she's dead. I knew I had felt it in my bones when I was getting sick on the train roads had departed this earth as dramatically as only she could have done.
Speaker 2 00:05:50 Thank you. That is, they only hear a higher, uh, with reading from Clark and division her, uh, new book, uh, you know, it's part mystery and part history. And I was wondering if we could unpack the history first, because it's such an important part of the book. Uh, the world war two generation is dying off. And I think the memories of the intern that camps are, uh, uh, dying off as well. And there's some people who don't even know about the internment camps, which I think is terrible. I think that needs to be remembered. And I was wondering if he could tell us something about those camps, how they came about and how people got taken to them and what it costs the Japanese American community.
Speaker 3 00:06:38 Yeah, I mean it, um, on February 19th, 1942, that's when, um, um, president Roosevelt signed the executive order nine I 66 and that pretty much made it possible for, um, the Japanese Americans to be incarcerated in this way, without any trial hearing, you know, and it, it was, you know, later on they had these, um, um, handbills that were put up all throughout places on the west coast. And it said, you know, aliens and non alien, you know, that they had to report to some kind of place and then be sent to one of these 10 camps. Um, there were, uh, there was one in California, no two in California, um, Nan center and one that was close to the Oregon border. And there was, uh, you know, they, they ranged from, you know, the west coast to all the way to Arkansas. And, uh, there were a total of 120,000 people that were in these camps.
Speaker 3 00:07:45 And one third of them were American citizens. They were born like AKI and her sister rose. They were born here and, um, in, uh, 1988, uh, the us government, um, they passed and signed the president Reagan signed, um, the civil liberties spill, which pretty much said, you know, the, the nation apologized for this travesty, um, you know, there was no report of espionage or any of that kind of thing. And there was also a monetary restitution for the individuals who had been in this camp, in these camps. So pretty much, you know, it was established that this was the wrong thing to do, um, that it was, uh, because of a lack of political leadership. Then there was also, um, you know, hysteria as well as, and there was some, um, greed involved too, because many people, many Japanese Americans on the west coast, they were kind of the leaders in agriculture and their farms and fishing operation to a taken away.
Speaker 3 00:08:56 So, you know, that happened in 1942 and some people were in camp, you know, it even passed the war 1946 because they had no place to go. But, um, you know, the younger ones, the Nisei, the second generation born here, um, there were, you know, special release programs for them to leave early because the government didn't necessarily want to, you know, pay for all these people in camp, but they had to go inland, you know? And so Chicago was the number one destination. It was the second biggest city in the United States at the time it had, um, a lot of industry there. So it's ironic because many of these naysayers worked in like defense factories. So, you know, it's the government saying that this is a seditious, these are seditious people. Why are you sending them to, you know, to factories to work? But, so, um, yeah, so Chicago, before world war two had 400 people.
Speaker 3 00:09:57 And by the 1940s, there w there were, um, uh, 20,000, um, because the first to go, there were young and they were without any parental supervision, actually many of them, um, not, not all, but some of them got into trouble. And in fact, so much, so that would be settlers group in nights in the 1940s, there were kind of, um, uh, concerned about the juvenile delinquency. They, there was a report that I saw. I, I, you know, because I also wrote, co-wrote a nonfiction book on this topic that talked about, you know, babies being born out of wedlock abortions, which were illegal at the time, uh, you know, and other various crimes. So when I saw that report, since I'm a mystery writer, I got very interested. And then when I went back to look at like oral histories, I saw that people were kind of talking around kind of the, the, the problems, the societal problems that were happening in me in the community. So I thought, okay, that's my place. Then it's mystery writer to kind of imagine and fill in the blank spaces.
Speaker 2 00:11:12 How did they decide who got the early release? I know rose got the early release first, and then her family came after, uh, how did they decide?
Speaker 3 00:11:24 Well, you, you had to be willing to do it. And you had to apply, you know, go through interviews. There was some re you know, and then of course, if you were considered, um, um, more patriotic, you know, if you had some kind of criminal record and there there's in, in clock and division, there's all sorts of characters. And one of them is like, uh, a young man named hammer. Who's a little bit of a hoodlum. You know, he wears a suit suit around and he, he is in Chicago, not through their early release program, but because he had done something criminal and camp, he was sent to boys town in Nebraska, you know, where father Flanagan was. And then he broke out of there to go to Chicago. So it's, it was, you know, type of thing where, you know, uh, there was also an active program to get nice, say who were like college bound, um, to go to universities, um, within like the Midwest and the east coast.
Speaker 3 00:12:27 So, but, you know, uh, many of the schools had quotas, so it wasn't like a bunch of nice, they could go to one school, they, you know, they would accept like one, one or two, two Nisei students. So they were kind of scattered. So I think that, you know, the government also wanted, um, uh, assimilation for, you know, maybe they thought that would be the solution to deal with Japanese Americans is to have them kind of erase their disappears throughout the nation. And of course, um, in a place like Chicago, they told them, you know, do not congregate in numbers three or more, but, you know, you arrive near a newcomer to this big city and you can't find housing. Of course, you're going to rely on, you know, your, your people, your family members, your former neighbors. So that kind of, um, segregate that kind of, uh, D uh, you raise sure. In terms of population, people congregated still, but, um, there's no physical remains, so there's not a quote to Penn town that's in Chicago. So I think, you know, this kind of history is new to a lot of people, um, because they're, you know, physically, you don't, you know, see anything from that particular era that kind of mark, um, this type of diaspora
Speaker 2 00:13:55 Tell us some about AKI. Uh, she idolizes her sister. She has lived through living in LA as a, it was just kind of a average person being taken to these camps, having her family's business, basically stolen from them, living in the camp. And then, uh, she kind of has to be, uh, the, uh, person who helps her parents get, uh, used to Chicago. And tell us a little bit more, I don't want to say too much because, uh, I don't want to do any spoilers, but, uh, you can tell how much you choose. So tell us about AKI.
Speaker 3 00:14:37 Yeah. I mean, in general, I kind of gravitate towards gravitate towards, um, ordinary people or people who are underestimated. And, um, what's funny is actually I'm the older sister and my brother is like eight and a half years younger than me. I don't have a sister. So there was like, uh, I did have to use my imagination as well as my relationships with my girlfriends who are in this, who are the younger sister. And I had to even interview some of them to fully understand what it's like to be in the shadow of, you know, someone greater in your family. And in the beginning of the book, um, it starts off actually with the birth of AKI, you know, as, as people have told her what happened, and you don't even know AKI name, you know, for a few pages, it's more roads, her sister who who's three years old and she takes center stage at a younger sister's birth and tugs that, or as a leg, she, you know, and, um, so it kind of signifies that AKI, um, always feels like she, she's not, you know, center stage yet.
Speaker 3 00:15:55 It, she has been born like a breech birth. So it's kind of sign like she actually is unusual. And she, in her heart of hearts, she is a truth teller. And I think, um, her parents, you know, in order to survive this very difficult time in their lives, they, especially her mother wants to focus on the future, you know, and not look behind them and not look at the losses, but because rose has, um, died under kind of suspicious circumstances, um, AKI can accept that, you know, and she feels for her to go forward. She has to figure out, you know, what happened, even though, you know, her parents are saying drop it, let's forget it, you know, for now. And even people around her, in the community, they, they don't want to, um, delve into kind of the sadness or comma that they've experienced. But, um, I think, you know, AKI actually has this enormous strength of character, even though it's unseen. Um, it's, you know, it slowly begins to come out and she kind of finds her voice through the course of the book.
Speaker 2 00:17:18 She's very loyal to rose and she, uh, wants the truth to come out about what happened to rose. She doesn't even know what the truth is, but she's wants the truth to come out. And, uh, she works very hard at that. And sometimes it isolates her and sometimes it alienates her from people, even her parents. And could you talk some about, uh, the thing is that, uh, the ways that she gets isolated and alienated from both her parents and other people in the Japanese American community?
Speaker 3 00:17:55 Well, I mean, I think in this way, I kind of do relate to AKI in the sense that she's a niece say, I'm, my mother is from Japan. Um, so I kind of understand like the culture there, there's this value of saving face, you know, and you don't want to stick out. You don't want people to be talking. I mean, I think that's, you know, all people, you don't want to be the center of gossip. Um, but I think, you know, there's, uh, the family pretty much, uh, values, certain cultural practices. Like there's this thing called Cole, Dan, where, when someone dies, everybody gives money to help with the funeral expenses. And that's sort of, part of that ritual is done, you know, in, in, um, the ITO family, you know, as well as this death, but, um, as, as, uh, Oxy finds more and more about the condition of most when she died, um, and she kind of brings it up to her family's attention.
Speaker 3 00:19:06 They're just like, okay, you know, they're, they're, they're pretty much saying just drop it, just, you know, don't try to, um, pull out anything more. Let's just go on, you know, so, and wherever, um, AKI goes, you know, to some family, friends who are also relocated to Chicago, um, you know, people are kind of telling her the same thing, you know, you don't really know, but, you know, just, just forget about it and go on with your life. And, um, yeah, and I, I really respect that. And it's kind of funny because I'm talking about a fictional character, but I really respect that about AKI because I think in the long run her, um, that she wants to, um, go forward in her life, um, with truth, you know, rather than, um, negating or ignoring things that have happened, I think it will serve her well, you know, later in life. But, um, and she's young, you know, she's in her early twenties, um, during most of the, the action that goes on in the book,
Speaker 2 00:20:24 This is intense mystery and intense history. Very, uh, I really enjoyed the boy was very intense, intensive. I'm wondering, uh, if you found it, uh, painful or difficult or, uh, inspiring, or how you felt as you were writing the book,
Speaker 3 00:20:41 It was, um, it was difficult. And then I was doing, um, part of the writing and all of the rewriting during the pandemic. Um, but some of it, you know, just, um, because we're, you know, we're right now, we're kind of in confinement, depending on how active you are, but, um, just the feeling that, uh, AKI has, you know, when she goes to Chicago and she's just used in the past, you know, for the past couple of years, she's used to being in a confined space, you know, in the desert with other Japanese Americans and then, you know, away from stores, you know, mainstream stores and all that kind of thing. And all of a sudden she's in the, you know, Chicago and she doesn't quite know how to act. And I think that's how I felt, you know, off and on during the pandemic, you know, when things open up and it's like, how do I greet people?
Speaker 3 00:21:42 You know, what do I do? Um, so I think that those kinds of elements, um, actually kinda helped me to connect with Rose's situation. But yeah, it was, um, there were times that it was, um, there was trauma, you know, it's very traumatic, but I think my own family history, my immediate family, they weren't incarcerated, but they were in Hiroshima during world war two, so that the atomic bomb survivors. So I think for me personally, um, many things I write about are difficult, however, um, there's always, I feel a glimmer of hope and, and I think that's something, you know, my parents, especially my father kind of instilled in me and the importance of family and the importance of laughter and supporting one another during hard times. So I think that's something I personally learned and I think it just can't help, but to, um, come out into things like,
Speaker 2 00:22:52 Well, there's definitely hope in the book. I, I felt that very strongly, excuse me. Um, I'm wondering God, I have so many questions to ask. Um, well, let's go back to some history and it, it, it does play a role in the book. Many of the Japanese American men actually served in the United States armed forces. And I'm wondering how they kind of coped with that, knowing that they had been, uh, there had been basically a war crime against them, and now they were serving in the, uh, in the armed forces. I mean, how did that affect the Japanese American community?
Speaker 3 00:23:32 No, they were kind of divided about that because at first on, um, after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, they, um, the government declared like Japanese Americans, like they were classified as enemy aliens, so they couldn't serve in the armed forces. Although there were many people who were able, I dunno, it was not practiced across the board that puts you a policy. But, um, it was actually Japanese Americans who had lobbied this one, man named Mike musta, Oka, the Japanese Mexican citizens needs. He really wanted me stay man to be able to serve, you know? Um, and, and so some people, uh, supported him. Some people disliked that because they felt like they were on like a suicide mission to kind of prove their loyalty. So, but, um, yeah, so some people resisted the draft and, um, they were sent to a prison because of that.
Speaker 3 00:24:38 So it was very interesting, but my own father-in-law served with a hundred, four 40 seconds vegetable regimental combat team. And he fought in Europe and was injured. So I think that, um, part of the story, um, you know, through my, um, my husband's family, I could relate to as well as many other, you know, nice men I knew who had here. And, um, you know, there were the per capita, there were the most decorated, um, military group during world war two. They had, you know, sustained a lot of fatalities and injury. So, I mean, that's one thing when I was interviewed on another podcast, it was like, uh, someone from New York and they had no idea that, um, Denise sane men were drafted or, you know, from camp. So that was kind of news to them. To me, what was what's so tragic is when, um, they were killed in battle and there were some funerals that were actually held, um, in camp, you know, behind barbed wire. And I just can't imagine what their parents, you know, um, how they, uh, suffered, um, during that loss while they were, you know, uh, incarcerated,
Speaker 2 00:26:03 We are almost running out of time and I have so many questions, but let's do this one. I learned so much from this book. Um, I knew a little bit beforehand, but I learned a great deal from this book. And I'm wondering how you feel about fiction as a teaching tool. The book was no way pedantic. I mean, it wasn't, uh, like that, but I learned so much to, how do you feel about fiction as a teaching tool?
Speaker 3 00:26:26 I think it could be super effective because, you know, and I, I, I say I tell lies to tell the truth. Um, and then I think also like one year I, uh, written quite a few non-fiction books as well. I think there is great value to putting actual names, you know, to people, real names. But I think when you're talking about like difficult situations, you know, brokenness in the family somehow, you know, I find it more freeing to work in the fictional realm, but the truth of the interaction that's there, you know, and somehow I feel like I could tackle these issues, um, easier in, uh, in the fictional world. You know, whereas if you did it in nonfiction, people will be pointing fingers of blame or, or shame, you know? And I think by, by writing a story like this in the fiction, I can avoid this kind of thing.
Speaker 2 00:27:29 Well, we have run out of time. I could talk to you all night long about this, but, uh, we have covered a lot. So I'm glad. Thank you so much. We've been talking to Nayeli only here, higher author of Clark and division. Uh, and I highly recommend it. And thank you so much. We really appreciate you taking some time to be on right on radio tonight.
Speaker 3 00:27:50 Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 00:27:53 Oh, okay. Well let's you go goodbye.
Speaker 4 00:28:15 Before he was called the Wonderland, he had many names, puddle head plonker Groundling and spike among others. He didn't mind these much, not even Groundling the name he truly disliked was the first he ever remembered being called number 13. It wasn't a name really just a number written in red on a piece of paper, filed in a drawer, in a room full of hundreds of files in drawers. It was in Boston, a small tin medallion attached to a piece of cord. He wore around his neck at a home for unclaimed creatures. It was sewn inside his tattered gray shirt and shabby gray trousers. And it was painted on his hard narrow bed in a room full of the beds of other unclaimed creatures who had at least been fortunate enough to have been given the gift birth. He looked like a young Fox, but stood up, right, like a child and had no tail to speak of his eyes were lovely Chestnut brown and flecked with gold, but there was something about them that gave one the sons that, although he had not been in this world very long, he carried within him some inexplicably sorrow.
Speaker 4 00:29:20 He was a creature with an innocent heart. What kind of creature though, who could say, despite his socks kit face, his snout was more dogs than Fox and there was something raggedy about him too, and the way his nose twitched, when he sense danger and how he trembled when he heard the loud clang of the orphanage bell. But the most singular thing about him was the hip was that he had only one ear.
Speaker 5 00:29:45 Very good. You've been listening to Mira Bartek reading from her new children's novel. The wonder Ling. She is the author of numerous books, including the memory palace, a memoir, which won the 2011 national book critics circle award for autobiography. And the wonder Ling I understand is going to be made into a film. So that's great too. Uh, Mira Bartek. Welcome to right on radio.
Speaker 4 00:30:11 Thank you. It's great to be here.
Speaker 5 00:30:13 Well, tell us a little bit about the story. I mean, it's sort of in many ways, a, a fantasy homage to a, um, Oliver twist, I guess.
Speaker 4 00:30:23 Well, it's a kind of a mashup, it's several things. Definitely. I was influenced by Dickens and the world he created, um, uh, particularly, um, Oliver twist, but there are other, uh, other influences in there too, but they're also, um, you know, I'm, you know, I was definitely influenced by the classic, um, classic children's stories and young adult stories, like, um, Lord of the rings and, um, you know, and obviously the Narnia books and by CS Lewis and, and, um, so, so I wanted to have this to have a classic feel, but, um, and, and it also, it's, it's a, it's a world that feels kind of Victorian England, um, during the industrial revolution, which is a time in England, um, that as well as, you know, United States and other places that, that seems to resonate with a lot of the things we're going, that are going on now in our, in our world. Um, but it definitely is a fantasy.
Speaker 5 00:31:28 Um, so we, we start off with him with Arthur, who, who you talk about as number 13 and, and who later gets the name, Arthur I'm in this orphanage,
Speaker 4 00:31:40 Right? He's, he's in this horrible place that is called Ms. Carbuncles home for wayward into see, gotten creatures. Um, and it's run by, um, our villainous named miss carbuncle, who, um, has, who has a very mysterious history of her own. And you find out a lot more about her, um, throughout the book. And she will definitely be in book two, which I'm in the middle of writing right now. Um, she has a two and a half foot high, um, bright orange wig, um, which she is concealing something underneath, which I won't tell you about. I'm going to have to read the book, but, um, yeah, she's very, she, she is, um, sort of an example of someone who had a lot of disappointment and in early life and, and that transformed into, um, bullying and, um, general bad behavior. She was very much a kind of dictator sort of character. Um, but he, he does escape. That's not a spoiler, it's on the cover of the book. So everyone knows she, he, Arthur Arthur is escapes and number 13 escapes and, um, sets off to find his destiny, um, and goes through, goes on a lot of adventures.
Speaker 5 00:33:00 So in many ways that's like it's a coming of age story, isn't it?
Speaker 4 00:33:04 Oh, definitely. Yeah. I, I mean, he's 11, he turns 11, um, in the beginning of the book and I love that age because, um, and I like writing for that age a lot. Um, I think, you know, you're not concerned about hormones and romance really. You're really concerned about, you know, who the main characters, you know, who am I in the world and, and, um, you know, and everything is so wondrous and, you know, they, they, um, you know, and, and who are my friends and, and, and, um, why am I here? And, you know, he, you know, he asks all these questions and those are the kinds of, kind of questions. You know, I remember asking myself when I was 11. Um,
Speaker 5 00:33:48 Where, where did the inspiration for him come from? And was it, uh, was there any one person that, you know, you know, a nephew or something, or was it just sort of a conglomeration or was it just sort of an idealized 11 year old in your mind?
Speaker 4 00:34:03 Um, a combination. I think, I think the character in some ways is a lot, like I was when I was 11, I was pretty shy and, um, and, uh, and had certain gifts, but I was afraid to share them. Um, so it's a little, there's a little bit of me in there, but also, um, uh, I often start writing about a character, um, through drawing, just random drawing and sketching, whatever comes to my mind, um, or, or being out in the world and sketching, particularly sketching animals. And so I, I, you know, the, the, um, my character started out as a sketch. Um, and I wasn't even thinking about who this character was. I just started sketching and I made a, made a drawing of actually a one-year-old rabbit, which turned into, um, a Fox dog, like creatures. It looks somewhat like my own dog, Sadie was she's black, but she's, she, she, um, has these giant ears.
Speaker 4 00:35:06 And, um, and, uh, so yeah. Um, and I also wanted, I knew that I wanted a character that had like a great, a lot of folktales. There's a lack and a gain. And, and in this case, it seems like, um, my character, uh, would have, he only has one ear. He doesn't know why he was born. He was born that way. Did he lose it in some way? Um, and, um, you know, so he has this lack. Um, but, but yet he has this incredible gift that you find out about, um, that he uses his ear for. Um,
Speaker 5 00:35:42 Yeah, I don't think it's giving too much away to talk about that, but I mean, if you don't want to, we certainly don't have to, but, but it is sort of often the case that when we lose something, a sense of smell, a sense of taste, sense of hearing or whatever we, we gain, we don't necessarily gain on the other side, but we become much more attuned to those other senses and we're able to use them better. And so, so there's just sort of this compensatory process, uh, that, that nature seems to endow us with.
Speaker 4 00:36:13 Yeah. I definitely see that with my dog who she blew things, she's getting old and she's losing her sense of hearing and, um, and sight. So she's paying a lot more attention to the world with her nose, even though of course the dogs do that. Yeah. She's she sniffed a lot more, she sniffed around to find things much more than she needs to.
Speaker 5 00:36:34 Yeah. Okay. And you, you mostly populate the story with these hybrid creatures. I mean, you talk a little bit about, uh, 13 Arthur who, um, who is sort of a part Fox part person, and most of the characters, there's a few that are not, of course, but I mean, there are many within the story, but a few of the ones that you sort of focus on, uh, are not, but, but by and large, they're all these hybrids. Talk a little bit about the decision to do that.
Speaker 4 00:37:03 Um, I knew that I wanted to have animals, um, in my, in this book. Um, and what are the really basic reasons why I enjoy drawing, drawing them so much more than I enjoy drawing people. Um, and I I'm just better at it. Um, and, um, and I also love animals and I used to work at a zoo. I spend a lot of time, um, um, as much as time, time as I can, you know, around animals, I visit a horse every day that was down the road. I have a dog, I used to live on a farm with more animals. And so, um, so that was part of it. Um, but also, um, I wanted there to be a kind of hierarchy and, and in my world, and I knew that I'm not, I'm not sure why I wanted to have an animal human hybrid.
Speaker 4 00:38:01 I think, um, it just sort of popped into my mind and that's what happened. Um, and I, I knew that I wanted there to be animals and then these animal human hybrids that are called Groundlings and there, and, um, and then the humans, but also there are, um, other creatures that are creatures of ancient magic that appear. And those, we learn a little bit more about them in book two, um, and they, some of them transform into other things. And, um, so there, so there is definitely this, this hierarchy and the, and the humans really dominate these Groundlings and treat them poorly. Um, so, um, so I think that it's, it's just part of this class system I created, um, they not supposed to be, you know, specifically supposed to represent any group of people that exist, um, you know, in our world, other than just think of anyone who is, is treated poorly in our, in our society and they can be a ground length. Um,
Speaker 5 00:39:10 Right, right. And you also did, um, all the, all the illustrations yourself as well. You talk about a Lovington draw and so forth. This book kind of reminded me a little bit of the, uh, the monster blood tattoo series and, uh, in particularly Lamplighter by DM Cornish, um, who, who,
Speaker 4 00:39:29 Oh, no, that was, wait a minute. I have to write those
Speaker 5 00:39:34 Tattoo series. Yeah. Uh, he's. He's uh, well, one of the books, I w w the only one that I got to interview him for, for the show was called Lamplighter, which was book two in the series. Um, and it's essentially a very similar story in some ways, this young orphan, and he does all his own illustrations. He's an author illustrator. He's a, I think he's Australian. And, uh, it was a number of years ago. We had him on the show. Um, but he had, uh, I think he had S I it's been so many years. I can't recall maybe a hundred pages of illustrations that he had put forth. And then he ended up call from them for the book, you know, and, uh, didn't use all that many within the text itself, but, uh, that was just interesting to talk to somebody who was able to do illustrations as well as writing cause in children's literature, that's pretty rare. Uh, was that something that you did? Was that something that you knew right off the bat, you're going to be able to do this, or did you, did you have to talk to your publisher and say, I want to be allowed to do this, or,
Speaker 4 00:40:41 Um, normally with children's books and, and this is, this is true with, um, you know, and when people are, they're writing their first picture book, say picture books for, you know, a younger children. Um, the rule is don't illustrate your own bro book. Um, you know, a newbie writer always feels like they have to turn in illustrations to, to get accepted. And that's like the worst thing to do because usually one of those things you do better. Yeah. Um, but in this and this, that is true. That middle grade, middle grade authors rarely, rarely illustrate their own work. That's where I didn't realize that was so unusual, but it is, um, in this case, when my agent, um, submitted my manuscript, which was only about a quarter of the way done, um, I had, I had done some finished illustrations, um, uh, and, and she submitted those as well.
Speaker 4 00:41:45 And, um, and just because she felt that they were as strong and they were integral to the, the, um, book and when my publisher, um, when I publish her, saw them, um, I mean she and the art director really loved them. And, and that was definitely part of the, that was part of the book deal. They automatically wanted me to illustrate the book too. Um, and the, the movie was actually sold partially because of these images. Um, the movie agents who initially saw my happen to see my, my manuscript, which was a total fluke, it was just one of those weird moments where you're, someone's in the right place at the right time. My age, my ass is crazy. I mean, the stuff doesn't happen. It's weird. My agent, my agent was in a meeting at, um, in LA, um, for another project for another, um, another client.
Speaker 4 00:42:43 And she happened to have my manuscript opened up on her laptop at this meeting at, um, at CAA, which is creative artist agency, the big book, big movie agency. And she had my, um, there was my, one of my illustrations of Arthur right there. And the movie agents happen to pass by and said, what's that? And it was based on that drawing. Um, so yeah, to answer your question about way, it is very unusual. Um, but they, and I didn't re I didn't, I didn't know if they were going to let me illustrate it or not. Um, and, um, but that was just a given that was immediately, it was immediately a green light. Um, I also had like this also, you're talking about, I also had a lot more of illustrations, um, that didn't get into the book because they're just, it's a big book it's really kind of fat and, um, turned out to be longer than I anticipated. So, um, and we ended up ditching some of those big illustrations and just, I ended up making a bunch of little spot illustrations to fit in spaces.
Speaker 5 00:43:54 Yeah. Well, th that's sort of more common with this age of reader. Anyway. I think, uh, you don't see as many of the bigger illustrations, so, well, let's listen, if we can, to another passage from the book.
Speaker 4 00:44:08 Okay. Then let's see here. You find a page. Um, I think I'll read, um, I'll read a little, uh, this is a little section when, um, it will you learn about his special gifts and, um, he is, um, number 13, who will become Arthur is in the dining hall at the home, um, this horrible orphanage and, and, um, he's sitting down and he's very, very shy. And, um, and, um, anyway, he's just sort of sitting there eating his, his cold porridge, the one eared orphan launch for companionship, but whenever he gathered the courage to approach someone, he spoke so softly and stuttered so much that it was hard to understand him. Some of the Groundlings not to mention the headmistress and Mr. Sneeze weighed her assistant treated him as though he were deaf. How could that stammering creature called number 13? Possibly here was just one pathetic ear, but he was listening.
Speaker 4 00:45:17 He was listening to everything around him. If he concentrated hard enough and went to a quiet secret place inside himself, he could sometimes hear extraordinary things. He could hear the secret movements of insects, busy at their work beneath the floorboards and inside of the walls. And I wondered if they could hear him too. He could hear the old donkey and the stables softly bring itself to sleep at night. And the two carriage horses, swatting flies with their tails in summer. He had never seen them, but he knew they were there. And in winter, he could even hear snow falling in the courtyard. The worst weather produced the loveliest of sounds.
Speaker 4 00:45:58 And he wondered if this was a kind of song, this melody of snow, and it's by chance and spring, a bird small and delicate of wing was singing of the tree outside the wall. Number 13 could hear her clear as a bell from inside the home. He could hear the quiet snap of every twig, the gentle flutter of her wings. As she flew from branch to branch loveliest of all, he could hear her tender nesting song as she sorted through the air to her new home. And when he did her song filled him with such unbearable, longing, he saw his swollen heart would burst
Speaker 5 00:46:34 Very good. That is Mira Bartek reading from her new children's novel, the wonder Ling, and you're listening to right on radio on K F a I, uh, one of the things that, uh, I found interesting was the, um, the importance of music. I mean, you, you talk about it, uh, much more later in the book than you do earlier in the book, because earlier in the book, you're sort of telling us who these people are and what's going on, but then it becomes much more important as the book progresses. And I imagine will be a very important in book two as well.
Speaker 4 00:47:10 Yes. Um, it, it, um, it, my character, you know, he lives in this place, um, until he escapes where music is forbidden and, and, and the worst crime of all is to sing. And yet in his sleep, he starts singing. He can't help himself. And, um, and you learn more about that as time goes on and as, and more about his musical gifts. And, um, and the, the, you know, the book is called the Wonderlic, but the subtitle is, is, um, is, is sand catcher, which is a machine, um, that contains the most beautiful music and songs, songs, and sounds in the world. And that becomes a really important, um, sort of wondrous device that, um, number 13 slash Arthur discovers, and yes, music is so important, um, and expressing oneself and, and, and, and our, our young heroes imagination, which has been stifled in this place. Um, and it definitely is important in book two, book two is called singing tree, and, um, music takes on a whole other whole other power, um, in a kind of a larger and a larger, larger way. Um, I can't give anything away, but definitely, definitely there's music and a couple of the characters, you know, like there's one character is very much like a combination of Fagin and, um, are there for Dodger, um, Quintus, um, um, he keys always making up signs and, um, and, uh, so yeah, singing music very important,
Speaker 5 00:49:05 Right? Yeah. I was, I was thinking about that as I was, uh, coming up with questions that I was trying to decide if Quintus was more like Fagan or more like the artful Dodger. And I, I just decided he was a combination of the, both of them. And, uh, yeah, one of the other things that you do is, you know, you've created this world, of course, uh, you've got lumen town and gloom in-town and, uh, um, this whole world, but you, you kept the R three and legend the R three and mythology. And, uh, uh, I, I was curious about the decision making process, you know, what, what led you to decide to, to keep certain elements of our past mythology and at the same time, create this completely different sort of world. Was it just a fascination with that particular story?
Speaker 4 00:49:59 Um, I think that, um, this may sound really silly cause I don't actually, I'd actually don't, I wasn't raised with TV and, and, um, so I kinda missed out miss miss a lot of cultural cues and I don't have, I live in a small town and we are very rural area in a very rural area where we don't have high speed internet. And, um, and so whatever, I watch either get DVD movies or, um, or once in a while, I'll get a television series. And I discovered this television series that was on this, I guess, scifi channel a while back called Merlin it's it's with, um, the Irish act, young actor, uh, Colin, Colin Morgan plays, um, young Merlin it's, it's, uh, obviously it's a fantasy and it's about, um, if Merlin was young, not this old bearded dude, um, wizard, and he gets to know Arthur Young Arthur as a young, um, young man before he becomes a king, um, what would happen?
Speaker 4 00:51:09 And I fell in love with the series and I fell in love in particular with the young Merlin and, and I, when I was w was why I watched the show, um, all the, all the episodes before I wrote, wrote the Wonderland. And that's kind of what made me decide to mess around with the Arthurian legend, um, because they do, they take various, um, our theory and trophy in the show and they, they just play with them and do really interesting things and which, which there are many ways, you know, there are many ways to tell the story, but I think that what at the, at its heart, what kept have captivated me was the idea of this character who is pure of pure of heart, um, and who, um, you know, kind of like a babe character, right? Um, who, who, who is, um, who, because of his innocence and his, his, his goodness, his essential goodness, um, he's able to transform situations, he's able to do, do good things, you know, amazing things.
Speaker 4 00:52:26 Um, you know, of course you, you don't really see, you don't see his sort of power, um, as much until, um, you see that more in book two, let's say, but, um, in this television series, Merlin was that kind of character. And, and that just re and, and seeing that series, I think reminded me of all those books and, um, movies that I loved, um, where there is this character who, who saves the day, not necessarily by fighting, you know, and, and having a big battle with people, you know, being a kind of warrior character, but rather someone who, who sings thing.
Speaker 5 00:53:07 Yeah. Well, it was, uh, yeah, it was great. We're, we're out of time, so we're going to have to leave it at that, but, uh, uh, I really liked it. And I look forward to seeing a reading book too, as well, when that comes out. This is Steve McEllister. I'm speaking with Mira Bartek about her new children's novel. The wondering Mira, thanks for being on right on radio.
Speaker 4 00:53:28 Thank you, Steve. Thanks so much. It was great to be
Speaker 5 00:53:30 Here. All right. Great. Now this
Speaker 2 00:53:34 Before
Speaker 6 00:54:03 You are listening to right on radio on K F IHI 90.3 FM radio without boundaries and streaming live on the
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