Speaker 0 00:00:04 You are listening to right on radio on cafe 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Annie Harvey tonight. I'm right on radio Liz olds. We'll be talking with Michael Oberman author of fast forward play. Rewind Oberman became a weekly music columnist at age 19 and wrote an interview column for six years before leaving for a career in the music business at age 52, he embarked on a new journey. As a photographer. His photos are on permanent display and museums in the U S and Canada and various album covers websites, galleries, and more. He currently lives in Columbia, Maryland, and I'm Liz Oles. And the last part of the hour, David <inaudible> will be talking with Patricia Houlahan, the author of head hands and hearts together. Daily meditations for caregivers just published by Holy cow, press and Houlihan has also published a memoir books for parents and mothers. And on the subject of teenage girls, she has been teaching at the law through the Wright center and at metropolitan state university for over 20 years, all of this and more stay tuned for right on radio. <inaudible> Michael, are you there?
Speaker 1 00:01:33 I am here in Columbia, Maryland
Speaker 0 00:01:35 In Maryland. Well, I'm a Maryland or two, so we really, um, we have some things in common. Do you have something to read to start with
Speaker 1 00:01:43 Or if you'd like me to start that way? Yeah, let me, let me give a little background to what I'm going to read because my book is made up of over 100 interviews I did with major musical artists, and then what I call musings my thoughts after or before or during et cetera. So I'm going to read them using. And I think that I picked one out that's kind of appropriate because this weekend was the fifth anniversary of the death of David Bowie. The way I first interviewed in 1969 and again, in the early seventies and who, when he arrived in the United States in January of 1971, his first time here, he spent his first day with me, my brother and my parents in silver spring, Maryland. So it's kind of an interesting story because there's a movie that just came out called Stardust that is supposed to be based on that trip.
Speaker 1 00:02:43 I think when I read my music, you'll see why I think it's really not totally based on the trip. Anyway, this is titled musings end of January, 1971. My brother brings David Bowie to the United States. David becomes Ziggy startup David's death in January, 2000 isn't 16, like was, was like a punch in the gut to me at first worried about David in 1969. I had spoken with him on the phone before I wrote my column about him in 69. It was a brief conversation centered around his song space oddity. My brother had sent me a copy of the single and encouraged me to write about David David and I were contemporaries. At least in terms of age, we were both born in 1947. A number of artists I interviewed between 1967 and 73 had died young Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Otis Redding, whether accidental overdose or in the case of Otis Redding, a plane crash.
Speaker 1 00:03:53 If you survive drug abuse and the fast life of rock and roll and made it past the age, 50, the chance to live another few decades, unless illness or accident he fell, you cancer took David at age 69. The gut punch to me was that I knew David personally, as he spent his first day in the us in January, 1971 with me and my brother and my parents, my brother, Ron was director of publicity for mercury records, always American label. At the time, David was already a star in great Britain in Europe, but he hadn't really broken big in the United States. Ron decided to bring David to America, to do a promotional tour and meet the fans, press DJ's and others who could help David's career in the U S David <inaudible> from London to Dallas airport in Virginia. Ron had flown in from Chicago where mercury records was headquartered.
Speaker 1 00:04:52 David had told Ron that he wanted to spend his first day in the U S with an American family. Ron saw that as an opportunity for me and my parents to spend time with David after all I had already written about Bowie, and this would give Ron a chance to spend some time with his own family while giving David a chance to spend time with an American family. So the Obermann family went to Dallas airport to pick up David Bowie. When David's flight arrived, he was held up in customs for a bit longer than we expected. It might've been his hair or his clothing, or maybe just chance that caused the slight delay before he came out of customs. He wasn't upset in fact, yeah. And a huge smile when he saw my brother and my parents, Ron had previously been to England, spend time with David there.
Speaker 1 00:05:42 Ron believed in David as an artist, and really wanted to see him achieve success in the U S success that had eluded him in this country. So far after arriving at my parents' home on Admiralty drive in silver spring, we all sat in the living room to have some refreshments than shot conversation. Flowed smoothly. David already knew what Ron and I did for a living. David was curious about my father's work. My father, excuse me, told David about his job as branch manager for national Bohemian beer. And David was delighted. He asked my father a business cover for a business card to have, as Momento after giving David one of his business cards. My mother stood up with her trusty Instamatic camera and snap. The photo of me, Ron and David see them on the living room sofa. David has my father's business card in his hand, in the photo.
Speaker 1 00:06:38 The reason I mentioned this is that the photo has appeared in many publications. It was the second photo taken of David on his first trip to the U S the first photo was taken at the us airport. People emailed me, texted me and messaged me on social media. Most saying they thought David had a joint in his hand, when in reality it was my father's business card. After an hour or two at my parents' home, we all went to Emerson's restaurant in silver spring. Yeah, not Huff burns. Deli is some publications in the reporting. The hostess at the restaurant seated us in a booth and proceeded to close the curtain on our booth. We all had a good laugh over that. After dinner, we dropped my parents back home and David, my brother and I went to my house and to come apart besides writing for the star, I had also managed a band called Claude Jones, and I'd come managed a band called sky cop.
Speaker 1 00:07:38 When we got to my house, the members of sky cop were in my living room, passing a ball around the band. Didn't even try to come here, indicate with David, something that some of them regret to this day. David had never seen a bomb before, and no, he did not partake of the substance in the bond. Blake that night. David went to his hotel in DC and left the next day. An interesting fact for all Bowie fans, David White went to mercury headquarters on East Wacker drive in Chicago. After a meeting in my brother's office, Ron handed David, several 45 RPM records we're on the mercury and smash labels. One of those records was called paralyzed by the legendary Stardust Calvin boy, David took a fancy to paralyzed and all that, that 1971 promotional tour of the United States. David decided to start us from the legendary Starbucks cowboy as part of his new persona Ziggy Stardust to this day among my brothers, many achievements in the music business is giving David Bowie paralyzed ranks high on the list.
Speaker 1 00:08:50 Well, I wrote a second column on David in 1972. It didn't any of the facts of David's 1971 trip to America. Those facts felt too personal to me at the time. Over the years, the photo, my mother took goes by way. Even me and my brother sitting on the living room couch has appeared in a number of publications. Now let's fast forward to February of 2019. I just received word that backbeat books. One of the published the book you are now reading well, you're not reading it. I'm reading it to you. A few days later, I heard from a friend in England. That's the lawn pictures, a British film company that had made films, including Churchill. And my weekend with Marilyn had announced they were making a film titled Stardust. The film was to be an account of Bowie's 1971 trip to the U S and how he adopted the persona of Ziggy Stardust.
Speaker 1 00:09:47 I went to my computer, Googled salon pictures and start us and found out it was true. As I read more details, I became frustrated. Salon had cast comedian and podcast or Mark Maron to play. My brother, Marilyn was 55 years old. My brother was 27 years old in 1971. When Bowie came to the U S Moran was old enough to be my brother's father. I thought, how else is salon going to fictionalize the movie? I took a chance and sent an email to the one of the partners in salon pictures. I explained my Bowie connection and told him I was available to give his company facts about David's trip to the U S he responded with an email saying that he would like to put the screen writer and director in touch with me. He CC both the screen writer, Chris bell, and the film's director, Gabriel range six months went by before I received an email from the film's director saying he would love to talk with me.
Speaker 1 00:10:50 And he arranged to phone me from London. So in August, 2019 Gabriel range phoned me from England. I asked him when the film was going into production, he responded, Oh, we just wrapped up 18 days of filming in Hamilton, Canada. I was shocked. Where did they get the facts for the film? My brother, who unfortunately had dementia, couldn't have told the story to anyone. My parents are dead. I was the only one who could give a firsthand account of David's first day in the U S and I hadn't been asked by anyone salon pictures to give them my account. The director also told me the movie was more of a buddy picture, including David and Ron's trip across the United States. I realized that since that road trip across the United States never happened, the film was going to be highly fictionalized. I'm going to, I'm going to end reading this part now, just to say that when I wrote my book, the film hadn't come out, the film is out now. It was on video, on demand. It premiered in the U S on November 25th.
Speaker 1 00:12:00 I spent the $12 to rent it and watched it and was horrified. I have since been in touch with the woman in the film who plays my mother with the actor in the film who plays me and the filmmakers didn't get permission. And, you know, I hate to say it, but from that point on, I knew the film was going to be dreadful. And it was in fact, um, it didn't open in great Britain until this week. And I was interviewed in the sun, the London tabloid newspaper, the sensationalist newspaper. The story came out this weekend, where the reviewer reviewed the movie had me refute most of the scenes scene by scene. Um, so it, it's kind of, you know, kind of a weird time. And a lot of my interviews have been skewed towards the Bowie story and for good reason, but let me ask you Liz, I mean, what, what in the book struck you that you might like to ask me about?
Speaker 2 00:13:12 Um, boy, it was all very interesting, but the first thing that struck me actually, uh, isn't one of the stories it's about your relationship with your brother and how you got the column and how he inspired you. And just wondering if you would be willing to talk a little bit about Ron.
Speaker 1 00:13:29 Yeah. You know, I was 16 years old and Ron was four years older than me. So I was 16 year old high school student. And Ron was working at the evening star while attending the university of Maryland. He started as a copy boy, and he got that job through his best buddy, Carl Bernstein, you know, people may know from Bernstein and Woodward, et cetera, still a great friend and a talking head on CNN. Um, and I asked my brother, if he could get me a job as a copy boy. And he did. So at age 16 on weekends, I was working at the Washington star as a copy boy, which is a nice name for being a schlep. Basically you're in the newsroom and somebody else copy it. You go do what they tell you. They want you to do well. As luck would have it.
Speaker 1 00:14:31 My brother began writing a column called top tunes in February of 1964, very important month in Washington music history, and actually in music history period, because the Beatles came to the United States and their first live, other than the ed Sullivan show, their first concert was in Washington DC. And my brother said, you want to come with me? Well, of course I wanted that kind of thing. He interviewed the Beatles at night. I wasn't privy to that. I sat waiting for him in the car to finish. And I came out of there. My head was spinning. I thought, gosh, Ron, you've got the greatest job in the world. Plus you're meeting all these beautiful women because of what you're doing. They all want to go backstage with you. Well, Ron continued writing the column for three years and let me open my book. And just, if I do a sequel to this book, it will contain Ron's column.
Speaker 1 00:15:46 If I go through his 1964 list, the markets, the Beatles, James Brown, the four seasons, the beach boys, Diane Renee, Elvis Presley, Marvin Gaye, I mean Peter and Gordon, Mary Wells, the Dave Clark five, the Dave Clark five was funny because it was a phone interview and my brother was still living at home and I was home and there was a young girl. She was maybe 14 who lived across the street, Joanie hop center. She heard that Ron was going to be interviewing the day part five by phone. She asked if she could get him on an extension. And Ron said, well, yeah, but don't say a word. Well, she got on the extension and squealed like a stuck pig. She went a sterile. They were, there was the tape Clark five, the unfortunate story. I mean, you know, which I didn't put in the book, but I think about it all the time is that when she was in her late thirties, Joan Hall of center, who was a friend was murdered by her husband. Yeah. Sad story. Anyway, let's go on to happier things. In 1967 at the beginning of 1967, when I was still in journalism school at the university of Maryland working as a copy, boy, Ron told me he was offered a job at mercury records in Chicago. At that point as assistant director of publicity, I said, wow, you're moving to Chicago.
Speaker 1 00:17:27 I thought I want that job. I want to write the music hall. So the editor of that section name was Fifi Gorski, Countess, Fifi Borska. And she was a great woman. I went up to her and I said, Fifi, I want to write the top tunes called. She said, Michael you're 19 years old. You're still in journalism school. We've got guys here with their master's degrees, who would like to write that column? I said, Fifi, you remember Ron was 20 and still in journalism school when he started writing the column and she told me, okay, write three. We'll see how it goes. And that those three turned into 300. So I stayed there every week. I wrote my column. I started managing artists to stop being a copy boy and would come into the paper one day a week to drop off my copy for my column.
Speaker 1 00:18:28 And it was a heavy time while my brother had the British invasion and I caught the tail end of that. As a writer, I had the psychedelic era. So I interviewed the Jefferson airplane, Jimmy Hendrix, um, from the folk scene, Joni Mitchell, a rare interview at the dressing room at the cellar door nightclub, which was your being from the Maryland area. I'm sure you knew of the cellar door and Joni Mitchell doesn't give many interviews that's for sure. No, she didn't. In fact, they asked permission. They have the interview up on the Joni Mitchell website now. So it was a great, great run, but the money wasn't very good. And in 1973, kind of synchronicity here, a friend of mine who worked for Warner Electra Atlantic said, how would you like to come to work at one or electric Atlantic? That was the distribution arm for Warner brothers, electro and Atlantic records.
Speaker 1 00:19:32 And it was a foot in the door to work for a record company. So that's kind of a speedy segue out of my writing into what I started doing after writing, which was working in the music business. And I was with one electric Atlantic for a year before I decided that wasn't where I wanted to be, but it was a great year at Atlantic records had their 25th anniversary party in Paris, took 800 people there for a week. Um, imagine dinner in Paris with Stephane Grappelli serenade in your table. It was an incredible time that same year electro records had their convention at a dude ranch in Litchfield park, Arizona. Boom, another great week when I left Warner electric Atlantic, I went to work for a man named Jack Boyle who owned the cellar door nightclub, and he wanted to start producing concerts. He figured that he could sell Gordon Lightfoot out for two straight weeks at the smart door, seven nights a week.
Speaker 1 00:20:44 Why couldn't he do Gordon Lightfoot for one night at constitution hall with 3,800 seats rather than the cellar door for 14 nights. And you would bring in the same amount of money and that's how sober concerts started. And while he was there, we got the contract to do every show at the Capitol center, right? 18,000 seat venue. So we were doing nightclubs constitutional hall, the Kennedy center, the Warner theater, the Capitol center. And that turned my life topsy turvy. My days were endless. It was an incredible learning experience, but I knew that Jack and his partner, Sam were making oodles of money and I was working my rear end off and they didn't pay very well. I left there to manage artists and that lasted for a good part of my life managing acts. And I've got some chapters on that in my book also.
Speaker 2 00:21:49 Yeah. The book has so many stories and we're actually running out of time, but why don't you tell one story that you suggested to me? Tell me about the, uh, and quickly tell me about the, uh, moon landing and who you watched the movie.
Speaker 1 00:22:04 Okay. Well, I won't even read that. I, you know, that that's such so embedded in my memory, then I'll just talk about it. I have a few minutes. Okay. I had interviewed blind faith via the phone and now they were in America and they were going to be playing at the Baltimore civic center. And that happened to be the same night as America sending the first man spacecraft to the moon. And I thought I was torn. Do I stay home and watch this on television? Or do I go say hi to Eric and ginger, et cetera. So I went to the Baltimore civic center and boom blind faith had a small television set in the dressing room. The show was postponed by 40 minutes so they could watch the first landing on the moon. And I sat back there with Eric Clapton, Rick Rick Gretsch, ginger Baker, and Stevie Winwood watched the ma man first footsteps on the moon and the crowd out there. This, there were no big screen TVs or anything, then they didn't know what was going on. You know, we want blind faith, eventually blind faith came out and explained to all we had to watch the moon landing. And so that, you know, we all have events that have happened in our life that we'll never forget where we were. And that was one of them for me.
Speaker 2 00:23:26 Yeah. Eric, Eric Clapton and ginger Baker and, and et cetera, et cetera, watching the moon landing with them is, uh, a good memory. And, uh, that's where we're going to have to stop. Michael. Uh, we could talk for hours about stuff in this book, but, uh, um, we're talking with Michael Oberman author of fast forward play and rewind a book of interviews, but also musings about wife in the music business. Uh, and, uh, we'll have to wrap it up. Thank you so much for, for coming and talking with us tonight. We, uh, it was my pleasure and I know that you're probably colder up there in Minneapolis, Maryland, but Hey, thank you. Thank you very much. And now this, yeah. Dave, are you with us? Yes. Excellent. All right. You can take it away. Thanks so much.
Speaker 3 00:24:37 Thank you. Hello, my name's Dave. Welcome back to right on radio and I am joined zoom by Patricia who land. I just turned off my radio to get that feedback. Welcome, Patricia. Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here. It's a pleasure to have you, did you hear that note on the calendar, poetry pros and pastries? Boy, I think it's a nice idea. Awesome. That's a great idea. A great idea. So, so glad to have you here. Um, the book is hands and heart together. Daily meditation is for caregivers and Patricia, before we get started. I wonder if you might tell us a little bit about yourself, uh, as a writer and, um, some of your previous works and that led up to this book so we can sort of get a sense for how this fits into your, uh, into your life.
Speaker 3 00:25:25 Awesome. Thank you. Um, yes, I've been a writer for a long time, also a long time writing instructor at the loft and at Metro state. Um, so my, I have written three previous meditation books and they kind of follow, uh, the course of my life. So the first one I did was for mothers in recovery, uh, which Bantam published that back in the early nineties. And then I did a book for teenage girls, which Holy cow press also published, which published this current one too. And that was in, uh, uh, the one for teenage girls was in 2001. And then I did one for the search Institute in 2007, uh, which was for, uh, it's called a moment's peace for parents of teens. I was a parent of teens at the time. I also did another book for the search Institute on the trends. Uh, it's called, uh, parenting through the transition of helping kids leave high school and move onto whatever's next. Uh, and then I, five years ago published a memoir called storm prayers, um, retrieving and re-imagining matters of the soul, um, like history publishing. Yeah. Feeling. That's tremendous. Congratulations on all of that. Um, so how about let's get started with the reading? This is again as a meditation book. Uh, so, uh,
Speaker 4 00:26:44 Listeners can get a sense for what the, this is all about, and then we'll dig in a little bit
Speaker 3 00:26:49 Excellent. Uh, the meditation, I wanted to explain a little bit the meditation book format, if for any listeners we're not familiar with it. So, uh, there's an opening quote and I am in really deeply grateful to all the writers, musicians, philosophers, theologians, whose work I have used in, in quotes. Um, they really helped me with the writing and I think they give a real richness to the book. So the format is an opening quote, and then I have two paragraphs that sort of take the idea and go into it in depth and then a closing thought for the day. Um, so visually on the paper, the quote is in bold. My writing of my two paragraphs are in sort of regular print and then the closing cut for the day is in a Tallix. So I will try to read it so you could visualize that as I read. Um, so, so I'm going to start with, um,
Speaker 4 00:27:42 I can't wait to hear you reading in a Patricia. This is going to be fast. Yes, I'm sure you will.
Speaker 3 00:27:53 Um, uh, this is, I'm choosing this one for the opening reading because of the quote itself, because it covers a lot of important ground about caregiving. There are only four kinds of people in the world. Those who have been caregivers, those who are currently caregivers, those who will be caregivers and those who will need a caregiver. And that quote is from Roslyn Carter. Former first lady, this live statement reminds all of us of the many sides of the caregiving prism. It is multifaceted. At some point in time, most of us will be in need of a caregiver who knows where or when, and the rest of us have either already been a caregiver or we are immersed in it right now. If you are reading these words, you are probably in the thick of it. What you are learning today will inform those around you, who will become caregivers in the years to come.
Speaker 3 00:28:51 The prison of caregiving has many sides and dimensions to it. Prisms and windows catch the sunlight and cast dancing, rainbows all around compassionate caregiving, also catches sunlight and sends rays of color and light into the past, the present and the future that my approach to caregiving catch light, where I can and reflect it for my loved one for myself and for all the potential and future caregivers around me. And then my tele sized place roles change over time. Let me honor my role as a caregiver today. Let me imagine this role as a prison catching and transforming the light of this state.
Speaker 4 00:29:36 Thank you. That was Patricia Houlihan reading from her book of meditations for caregivers, hands and heart together, Patricia. Uh, that is one of the meditations I had pulled out, uh, that I wanted to talk to you about. So, uh, that's fantastic. We're on the same wavelength. Um, and I did want to also talk about the format, but before we do that, um, let's define caregiver just so we know what we're talking about. How do you define caregiver?
Speaker 3 00:30:01 Oh, that is an excellent question. Um, well, well that is a really excellent question. You'd think I'd have an answer at the tip of my tongue. Um, I mean, it, it is a role. I, it is a role that one takes on when you are doing a lot of caring for somebody who is vulnerable in some way or another. Um, and I, I know that the preferred term is caregiving, not caretaking, um, because it implies more of a relationship. Um, and, uh, uh, and I really think caregiving is a very intimate kind of a relationship because vulnerability opens, um, opens us up in, in unusual ways, even if we're we're, if we're the one taking care of the vulnerable one. Um, so I think of it as, uh, uh, helping someone through a difficult time, um, being there for someone through a difficult time showing up for somebody who is going through a difficult period. Um, a lot of my book is oriented towards aging or, you know, a family member who is sick or aging, but I, but it does have a broader, um, dimension than that, too.
Speaker 4 00:31:17 Sure. I can speak from personal experience. And I'm sure most, if not all of our listeners can, based on the Roslyn Carter quote that she is exactly right. Yes. And, uh, uh, I think to, to come upon a book like this, uh, prior to, rather than after you're deep in the, in the middle of caregiving at any point, it comes in handy, but, uh, um, it's never too early to start thinking about your role as a caregiver. Uh, and I think that's, you would probably agree with that.
Speaker 3 00:31:45 I would totally agree with that because I wrote this book after the fact, because I wrote the book I wished I'd had when I was in the thick of caregiving. I mean, I'll probably go into that role again in the future. Um, but I did it for quite a few years and I really longed for a book that would address its particular challenges.
Speaker 4 00:32:04 Yeah. Uh, and of course you've written a number of books on meditations and the nice thing is it stops you and slows you down. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And, um, so let's talk about the structure, uh, a quote and then your words, and then the actual, I guess, what would be the medication meditate, medication meditation at the bottom? Uh, so, uh, w how did you come up with that and do you really set yourself an impressive task to fill in that page with a couple of paragraphs that's, that's not easy to do, and this is a 305 page meditation book, very nicely laid out and designed and fits right in the Palm of your hand. Ladies and gentlemen, I might add it really feels good. Um, but you set yourself up for a lot of work there. Um,
Speaker 3 00:32:52 Yes. I'm you do that? Well, thank you for acknowledging that it's and by the way, it's 366, cause I wrote, wrote one for leap day also. Um, uh, but why did I, why did it, I felt, I just felt highly motivated. Uh, I felt like it was a book that was missing and could, uh, be very useful in the world. Um, and like I said, it was the book I wished I'd had when I was in the thick of it. Uh, so I was highly motivated and, um, after a few rejections, uh, Jim Perlman and Holy cow press said yes, and for him, I'm very grateful for that. Um, and he definitely encouraged me all along the way. Uh, I would say finding 366 quotes was a staggering, um, job and, and a pretty big percentage of the process. If, if I had a good quote, it was always easier for me to write from that.
Speaker 3 00:33:48 Um, so yes, and it is an interesting format. I mean, it's a kind of a tried and true format. I didn't invent it. Um, uh, but it is, you know, there, there are quite a few different kinds of meditation books out there, but this particular format I think works really well. Your comment about how it fits in the Palm of your hand, it's easily accessible. It's short caregivers are busy, you can read it in five minutes and hopefully it can kind of shed a light on that particular day what's going on for you. Um, so yes, so for all those reasons, it's a, it's an easy way to slow down. Take a few minutes.
Speaker 4 00:34:26 Yeah. Oh, it's really nicely done. So, uh, did you think about this in terms of progression that is to say, is there a reason why a quotes on April 4th as opposed to October 22nd? Well, validation is there, you know,
Speaker 3 00:34:43 So some of it's kind of random, it's not a progression through the year, just because there's because I was envisioning people going through a lot of different processes at a different time. Um, so mostly it's random except for ones that's centered around holidays or certain times of the year, um, or seasons, some of them are sort of seasonal. Um, so, so other than that, I just kind of try to provide, uh, when I was putting them together. I mean, because I organized them differently from how I wrote them. I was just kind of looking for maybe a variety of tools, so to speak throughout the course of a week or a couple of weeks. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:35:26 Right, right. Um, I'd like to back up and talk about the title of the book. I think it often reveals a lot about what's inside. The subtitle is pretty straightforward daily, daily meditations for that could have been the title, but, you know, that's not terribly exciting, uh, hands and heart together. What did you mean by those words?
Speaker 3 00:35:45 That really comes from the fact that in my experience with caregiving, it is very much, uh, demanding, very practically, which is the hands part hands on. Um, there are a lot of, like when I think about my mother's last six months, say there was a lot of taking care of details and, uh, you know, things around her, uh, living place. Um, that was very hands-on, but it's also a very much, I think at its best, a heart opening and a heart challenging experience. So there's, it's very emotional at the same time. It's emotionally intense. So hands and heart together. Um, I actually fooled around with a couple of different ideas with hands and heart and actually my publisher, Jim Perlman. And I w we kind of came up with that together as being the favorite one. Yeah. So it's definitely a hands and heart together experience.
Speaker 4 00:36:41 Yeah. Yeah. That's well said. Thank you. Uh, so you seem like someone who is very self-reflective, uh, and you've written other meditation books, so, uh, people might find it curious, but I'll just speak for myself that, you know, you went through this experience with your mother. We can talk about more that if you like, there's some value in sharing some of those stories sometimes, but, uh, um, that you didn't that, you know, meditation too, like this didn't did not occur to you during that time. Maybe it did, but I, I take the sense from you that it was after the fact that you realized, boy, I just went through something and I can really help other people out. Is that what happened?
Speaker 3 00:37:19 Well, that's, that's not quite it. I I've been, uh, a daily reader of daily meditation books for a very long time. So, so it's part of my, my practice, so to speak in the morning I read and I write in my journal. Um, and so I was reading books that were somewhat helpful. I just felt that like, during that time I could have used something that was a little bit more focused on the experience of caregiving, um, because it's very difficult to, I think at times it was very difficult to, um, continually feed my sense of worth in that role. And so one of the things I really tried to do in this book is to keep honoring the importance of the role. And, and I th I don't think caregivers can hear that enough because we, they, we try and tend to get very worn down in the process.
Speaker 4 00:38:09 Yeah. You know, we're, we're told that our generation, uh, the sandwich generation, right. Because we have kids and we have parents who are living older and who have more and more needs, um, that this phenomenon is, uh, more and more upon us. Uh, you know, we don't have any data in front of us, at least I don't, unless you have someone in your back pocket that you want to share. Uh, but that seems to be the case. I mean, is it your experience that friends and family and other people in your circle, uh, are going through this more than, you know, otherwise?
Speaker 3 00:38:39 Um, I think so. And then I, I think, I think COVID also sort of, um, opens up, uh, uh, uh, a wider horizon of need for caregiving and need to be kind of inventive and creative and caregiving. Um, so yes, and for me, there was a history of caregiving. I did it, uh, for my mother and father. My mother was the last one to leave us. So she's kind of the one that stayed in my memory the most, but I also had two aunts and an uncle who were, uh, very formative in my life who I helped take care of because they didn't have children of their own. So, um, yeah.
Speaker 4 00:39:22 Well, as my grandmother used to say, you you've, uh, put a lot of, uh, what jewels on your house and having her Sunday thing, whatever, whatever that is saying.
Speaker 3 00:39:30 Well, the great thing is that all those people taught me a lot about how to be a caregiver. So in, in, in reality, I was giving back some of what, they'd all they had been giving me over the years.
Speaker 4 00:39:41 So would you consider yourself a giving person and to what degree does it in terms of caregiving? Uh, we're not all born to be caregivers. I don't think maybe we are, maybe I shouldn't say that. Um, tell me about if you've ever reflected on, you know, people's ability, um, the type of emotional stamina, they may have to do these sorts of things.
Speaker 3 00:40:01 Yes. I, I, I don't think everyone is cut out for it. On the other hand, I think people can be surprised by being able to rise to the occasion when the need is there. Um, and in my family, I went to necessarily been the most obvious one. Um, I did a lot of caregiving with my sister. Who's a nurse, and she would have been the more obvious caregiver. Um, but I, I also felt really called to it. Um, so I do think it requires, um, sort of, um, inability or a willingness to, um, go into difficult moments, um, and, uh, kind of be there in an intimate way when somebody is going through a very hard time. Um, it's true. Not everybody's cut out for it. On the other hand, I think some people, um, I I've talked to a lot of people about this and I know some people would think I wasn't the likely candidate, but there really was nobody else I needed to step in. I needed to do it and I discovered I could do it. Um, so I think that happens too. I think, I think it can open up people in, in surprising ways.
Speaker 4 00:41:11 Yeah. Great. Uh, remind our listeners. We are speaking with Patricia Houlihan, the author of the just published hands and heart together. Daily meditation is for caregivers. Uh, Patricia. How about another reading?
Speaker 3 00:41:24 Okay, great. Uh, okay. One question. Do you think there'll be time for two more or just one more?
Speaker 4 00:41:31 If we want to do two more, we certainly, it looks like we have time. Yes.
Speaker 3 00:41:34 Okay. Okay. So then I'm going to read, okay, this is the one, um, this is the one my husband really wanted me to read it. So I'm going to read it, uh, and it's worth it. It's an April, uh, reading, which is also kind of a nice thought to think of April. Um, and yes, right now. So, so the quote, when the month of Ramadan arrives, the doors of mercy are opened by Asahi Muslim. One evening in April, early April, I was walking around the city like near my home, tucked behind a parked van where two men on prayer mats heads bowed down to the ground and evening prayer. They face the direction of the soon to be setting sun. They were just slightly off the beaten track yet all around them, zoomed bikes and cars and people walking and talking. I was moved by their quiet focus by the peacefulness.
Speaker 3 00:42:33 They exuded by their silent, but open practice of their faith. Just seeing them made me feel more reverent toward the evening, the sun making its way across the Lake and through the just barely budding trees. My Muslim friend reminds me that Ramadan is a month for mercy, for forgiveness, for blessings who among us doesn't need more of all of these inside of the busy-ness of caregiving. There are many reminders all around us of our shared human need for mercy. That is one of the beauties of our wider world in the midst of our days of caregiving. Let us remember to seek the blessing of mercy. It is a deep human need.
Speaker 4 00:43:20 That was very beautiful. Patricia, do you write poetry?
Speaker 3 00:43:24 I do write poetry. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:43:26 I can tell they're really lovely writing and I, you know, hearing that that's a meditation for everyone really it, and you're putting your meditation on the bottom. Um, were you, um, directed to caregivers specifically? Will you take caregiver out of there and just say you that's for all of us, right. Thank you. Thank you. That's a compliment. I mean, that that's right. I am sharing.
Speaker 3 00:43:50 I love hearing that. Thank you.
Speaker 4 00:43:51 Yeah. Yeah. Um, for me, my, my daily meditation stuff, the stalk philosophers, I really, I love those guys. Um, but, uh, well, thank you for that. Um, where was I going to take this now? Oh, it's nice to hear you read these things. Um, what's your experience with audio and like, if not audio books, you know, listening to meditations, I mean, this would be a really nice audio book, I guess, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 00:44:20 Well, what a great idea. I love that. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:44:23 Yeah. Well, I don't know. Just, I said, I'd just throw that out there.
Speaker 3 00:44:28 Thank you. I have never made an audio, but I love the idea of it. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:44:33 There's something about with meditations and the sort of the lyrical writing that I think it would work well, but, well, thank you. Um, you, you have another one in particular. Maybe you have more than one it's on August 23rd. It talks about the toll of caregiving. Um, do you want to talk about that? Just that topic, the toll of caregiving, if you would, yes. Um, feel free to reference it if you will end it's August 23rd, but it's,
Speaker 3 00:45:01 Let's see that one. Um, I, I was, I think one of the most surprising things for me, um, about caregiving is especially, especially with my mother, um, was how emotionally demanding it was and how many days I ran up against either fatigue, um, or, you know, difficult, personal, like feeling guilty or feeling like I wasn't doing enough. Or, you know, even though I'd done a whole lot. And I think that those are some of the difficult challenges. Um, and, and yeah, that quote, uh, just a little bit of it from Henry now and is, but caregiving takes a toll, uh, because one of my themes in here is how important it is to, um, keep trying to feed yourself in some way, because it's so easy to get drained by the experience. Uh, I, in, into one of my meditations, I know I, I, I wrote about a morning when I met some friends for coffee and I like want to put my head down on the table. I think I might've just put my hand on my head. And I just said, I've never done anything so hard in my life. Um, and it surprised me that it was so hard, but it was at times it was also a very beautiful, uh, experience and tender and, uh, and I I'm grateful to have had it, but it was also very hard and demanding.
Speaker 4 00:46:24 Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's one of the benefits of a book like this. It can remind you that you're not alone.
Speaker 3 00:46:30 Exactly. And definitely not alone. According to AARP 43 million family caregivers in our, okay.
Speaker 4 00:46:36 Is that right? Yes. So you do have some data in your back pocket. Thank you. 43 million. Wow. Well, you're going to be rich when they all buy one of your books. That's amazing.
Speaker 3 00:46:47 I
Speaker 4 00:46:47 Got it. I have a couple, two or three people on my list for a gift and they're going to get this book. Um, but we're gonna run out of time really quick. And Patricia, it always happens. So why don't, if you want me to get another reading in for us, that'd be lovely. Do you have something in mind?
Speaker 3 00:47:00 Yes. I have one. I want you to do for closing. So, um, we'll go for that. Quote. Love is not constellation. It is light by Simone while in a world spinning with changes. For instance, with the arrival of COVID-19 or the arrival of health issues in a loved one, there's often a sense that we can count on nothing. What felt like solid ground beneath us has become unsteady. Our footing is off balance and unsure in times like this, I am always grateful for the way the sun rises every morning, every evening. It exits beyond our view, but at times when we can count on little else, we can count on this amazing steadiness of how our planet moves in relationship with that most powerful star, the sun difficult things always seem more doable in daylight. Fears are often diminished in the light of day. Love is like this steady light and love illumines. What the darkness hides love is a much stronger force than fear. Each day. We are a wash in the steadiness of sunlight and the steadfastness of love.
Speaker 4 00:48:18 Thank you again. That was Patricia Houlihan reading from her book, hands and heart together. Daily meditations for caregivers. Uh, Patricia caregiving is affects more people than the caregiver and the one being cared for. Right. I think we get really focused on that really tight bond, that relationship, but something tells me your husband was involved in this to other people in the family. And it just, it's kind of a web.
Speaker 3 00:48:47 Absolutely. And in my preface and in my acknowledgements, I acknowledged all the other people. I mean, I have, I have seven siblings. Everybody helped out. Um, my husband, uh, held me together through so much of it. My friends helped me through it. Uh, yes, it it's, uh, it is a webinar. It really requires an invites, layers and layers of support. Um, in my introduction, I say, if you, if you're the person who brings food to the caregiver, you're an important part. You, you matter, you're an important part of this whole process.
Speaker 4 00:49:22 An interesting point. So there are caregivers for caregivers, if you're lucky. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:49:26 If you're lucky and the best caregivers, I'm sure have people caregiving to them and honoring what they're doing and supporting them.
Speaker 4 00:49:35 Yeah. Yeah. It seems like an important point.
Speaker 3 00:49:38 Absolutely.
Speaker 4 00:49:41 We're getting so close here to that. There was one, what, what what's, what do we take November 22nd? I have to write this down in my notebook, a quote from a person I never heard before Howard Thurman. Um, he says follow the grain in your own wood.
Speaker 3 00:49:56 Yes. Can you give
Speaker 4 00:49:57 Us a nice little description of, I love that image, even though I don't know what to do with it.
Speaker 3 00:50:04 Well, I, for me, um, and I'm not going to, there's a time to read that whole meditation, but I think there is no cookie cutter way to be a caregiver as there probably there's no cookie cutter way to be a human being and that falling the grain in your own wood is the way that I worked with that was the idea of listening to your own intuition, listening to your loved one, uh, finding creative and inventive ways to honor who you, the caregiver are, who the loved one is. Um, uh, yeah, that's, that's how, that's how that quote spoke to me, um, was that don't be afraid to find your own way here. Uh, don't be afraid to experiment and if you have a crazy idea, go for it. Um, uh, yeah. Great, beautiful. Listen, ladies and gentlemen, if you are not a caregiver, you know, someone who is, and, uh, it's called hands and heart together, Google it.
Speaker 3 00:51:06 It's by Patricia Houlihan, Patricia, before I get the, um, ten second warning or whatever they're about to do here, what are you up to next? What's what's next for Patricia Houlihan? That's a great question. I'm not quite sure what's up next. Um, this just came out and I mean, I'm writing a lot about everything that's going on in the world, uh, which there's, you know, an enormous amount that I'm not quite sure what the next shape or form is quite yet. So, um, and I'm healing a broken wrist, so. Okay. Is there a story there? Yes. I've. I've just got I, I bro, I broke up while I was ice skating. Oh, wow. What's the story. Well, you never do all this ice skate. Right. Um, uh, so tell us about your, Oh, we need to wrap. Well, there it is. Patricia Houlihan, uh, hands and heart together, daily meditations for caregivers. What a delight to meet you and have this conversation. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Absolutely. And now this,
Speaker 2 00:52:19 You are listening. You are listening to right on radio on KFA 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Liz olds. I'd like to thank our guests tonight, Michael O'Brien and Patricia hula ham. Plus our listeners who makes this show possible without your support and donations, Cathy, I would not be possible. You can find more news and info about right on radio at kfh.org/program/right on radio. Plus listen to recent episodes on our recently launched podcast found on Spotify, iTunes, and anywhere podcasts can be found.
