Speaker 0 00:00:00 <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:00:12 <inaudible> you are listening to right on radio on cafe 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected] during Janina radio radio, Liz talks with Susanna Drizzy author of until where we are until where our fish and silver fish blends the romance and violence mood and ethos with the Cuban revolution of a young man's hopeless. First love Susanna Rodriguez is an award-winning Cuban, born poet writer, translator play writer, director, producer, and scholar. She has a PhD in comparative literature from UCLA, where she teaches and the writing.
Speaker 2 00:05:10 And I'm Liz old in the last part of the hour. Dave bedbug chats with Brian <inaudible> author of starting again, a collection of poems, some of which have appeared in Cedar cider river, press review poetry, Northwest and rattle among other publications. His work has been nominated for a pushcart prize. Brian lives in rice and Minneapolis, all of this and more. So stay tuned to write on radio. Susanna, are you there? How are you? Pretty good. How are you doing tonight? I'm doing well. Well, welcome to right on radio. Uh, do you have your reading?
Speaker 3 00:05:59 I do. You can go on with that. All right. Thank you. Um, so this is from chapter 13 and it takes place in 1969. Um, some years after the triumph of the Cuban revolution of 1959. So about a decade later, a month and a day after their wedding, the sun was high and the sea was a glittering blue as Leo and Maria walked to the shore, a bicycle or a beach, a surge of large smooth waves came toward them, dressing up around their feet. They held hands and kissed letting the ground think beneath them, as the waves pulled back into the sea, come on, Maria said we didn't come here for nothing. She was standing on one foot with her arms outstretched playing Burt Flamingo. Under the sun. Her skin had turned to bright red and Elio feared. She had enough fun for one day.
Speaker 3 00:06:49 He stared out to where the quiet menace that was all about water and machine with machine like creatures, lurking beneath the surface. He didn't have the heart to swim. He simply couldn't do it. His legs wouldn't move his body wouldn't budge. He was terrified. You go. He told her even as his heart beat fast for her and for what he knew could happen in the water. Come on, don't be a ninny. She said, hopping, laughing, and pulling him by the hand. And you could do nothing more than hold his ground. No. He said lifting her hands to his mouth to kiss them. I'm not getting in the water fine. She said, pulling her hands away. I'll go in alone this time, but you'll have to get over your fear sooner or later. And he watched us, her body broke the waves, then disappeared into the trendline.
Speaker 3 00:07:34 He walked back to their towel and sat down while he waited and patiently for her to come back. He tried to read, but his head was nowhere near Lincoln Island and the Nautilus who was with Maria. And he hoped prayed. She come back from the water in one piece, he felt sick to his stomach. They spent all afternoon at the beach telling each other stories. He, the one about the guy who found a cave full of gold and silver and precious stone. She, the one about the magic lamp and the other one, the one about the sailor, then she said they should start with the greatest book ever written in any language. Once you read it, you'll never be the same. She said. And she told him about windmills and giants and about the greatest of friendships between the Colorado and downstair and his Squire, and about the <inaudible> unbounded love for his new there.
Speaker 3 00:08:21 And he was mesmerized by the Lola her voice. This will be a story long enough to last us older years we'll spend together. Maria told him, and he loved the idea and he loved her. She told each story with great care tenderly, quietly, rounding out every word at each time was the first and the last time she'd pronounce Avia. When I was sitting beside her on the stand Elio concluded that Maria knew older was to know about loving him. Perhaps she could best that as long as there were words. And as long as there were stories that he would want to hear again the next day and the next and the next day after that, she would save him. And there would be no other destination than Maria, because she would be the only place he would ever want to do his one and only story.
Speaker 3 00:09:06 And they made so many plans, which they erected before then, like sand castles, as elaborate as the stories, they told them just as beautiful. They decided where and how they would live, who their friends would be and what they would wear and eat and watch on TV and how they would never let anyone dictate their lives or make choices for them or make them feel unwelcome or afraid because they were young and this life was new. And like, Oh, you think that were wrapped up in dreams. So he tried to remember the finer details of each story, colors sounds and textures. His mind drew a blank choosing instead to imagine Maria choking and swallowing water storage and the one task of getting another breath, her body flailed, hopelessly against the force. She couldn't see unable to wait any longer. It would be around to the shore and looked out over the water children weighted in and out of the surf.
Speaker 3 00:09:56 Well, a small blue motorboat crawled slowly toward the pier. Leo couldn't see anybody on it. And he couldn't see Maria and the water, his heartbeat faster. He pushed into the surf far enough for the water to reach its gas, but he froze. He couldn't go any further. Maria, his voice came out, broken, swim back it beat then another, and suddenly there, she was in the distance. Maria, small God in the sea of sunlight saw him and waved alien wave tobacco squinting. I think we should get out of the water. He shouted pumping in his chest. I'm coming. She yelled back.
Speaker 4 00:10:34 And that was Suzanne dressy, uh, Suzanne Susanna dressy, and a passage from when we were a fish. Uh, Susanna, why don't you start by giving us a brief overview of the book and I'm curious what the title means, if you wouldn't mind telling us that.
Speaker 3 00:10:53 Okay. Um, so the title, um, until we're fish, um, it's about, um, it's about a young man. It begins when he's 13 years old. Um, right, right. The day before the Cuban revolution, um, the triumph of the Cuban revolution or the day before Castro marches into Havana and that we see them grow up through, through the years from 1959, all the way to 19, um, 1995. And, uh, throughout these years, Leo is obsessed with two things. The first one is Maria, his next door neighbor. And the second one is an American bike, a Schwinn bike, a beautiful red bike that he saw once, um, on a window, uh, at a here in Havana and that he has never been able to have. So we follow him through, um, his relationship with Maria and, um, and through the, the, the challenges that the revolution represents for not only these two characters, but their friends and family members, um, as the revolution, uh, first goes through a honeymoon period, then a kind of, um, a kind of quiet, quiet time and disillusionment disenchantment. So that takes us all the way to 1995.
Speaker 4 00:12:16 Um, your novel starts in 1959 and that's the beginning of the Cuban revolution. You've talked some about it, but I'm wondering for our listeners who don't know much about it, if you could talk a little bit more about the revolution and what it meant and who was on what side and so on.
Speaker 3 00:12:33 Well, um, the, the revolution, you know, it's, it's a complicated, uh, it's a complicated conversation to have, right? About the, about the revolution since, um, at the very beginning, you know, um, I think there were, there were plenty of people who cheered on, um, and expected this, this change to come about and much needed change. I think, to do the Island. It had been under, um, under a dictatorship before, which was a battista's regime. And so when Castro comes about people, many people, some, some were against the change, but many people were hopeful that the revolution would bring with it. Great change for the people in particular, those who were on the fringes, those who were, um, you know, at the lower levels of, of the Cuban, um, Cuban economic ladder. And, uh, you know, what happens is what happens to old revolution that, you know, promises made at the beginning, doesn't, don't really pan out.
Speaker 3 00:13:35 Um, the goals are not met and, um, you know, instead what you get is, is slowly, uh, steps toward a dictatorship. And so this is how the characters find themselves at the very end, you know, hopeful at the beginning as any young couple would be in a honeymoon period with their own marriage and with the revolution. But by the very end, the changes that were promised at the beginning, um, haven't really been delivered. And so there's disillusionment and there is much, um, unfulfilled desire for older characters in, in the novel unfulfilled dreams. And, uh, they all cope with these, with these dreams, um, in different ways,
Speaker 4 00:14:22 Uh, bicycle, as you mentioned, the red Schwinn bicycle, uh, played a significant role in the imagery of the book. And I'm wondering if he could talk about the image and the several, uh, bikes that appear in the story.
Speaker 3 00:14:38 Yeah. So, um, bicycles, you know, they're very special to me. Um, I think in general, bicycles are very special to children and adolescents are the first moment of, of independence where, you know, you, you leave home, not in a car, but, uh, on a bicycle. So it's, it's pretty, pretty driving for four more humble nations, I think a bicycle substitutes, the automobile. And so for many people, it's the only method of transportation besides their own feet, right? So in, in Cuba, in particular, um, bicycles were much loved and the bicycle, the Schwinn bicycle in this case, um, I like to think that it represents, um, the dreams that are unfulfilled for our main character Leo before the revolution, because he desires the bicycle before the, the triumph of the, of the Cuban revolution of 1959 and also the same dreams continue to be unfulfilled after the revolution.
Speaker 3 00:15:42 So even after the revolution and the revolution that has made so many promises, I, Leo cannot get his bikes. And he has, he has moments where he's close, you know, there's, um, there's a, uh, Soviet bike that, uh, that he purchases, you know, an old, still be a bike that he purchased from an athlete who has been to the Soviet, um, to the Soviet union. I think this takes place. Uh, and, uh, unfortunately like many of the, the Soviet products that would get to Cuba, um, they would fall apart. And so as poor Leo was riding his bike down a Hill, the bike starts to, you know, the pedal goes one way, the wheel goes another way. And so there goes his first, his first, uh, bike, and then there's a Chinese bike. And these Chinese bikes were very popular in the 19th. Um, in the 1990s, some of them were called flying pigeon.
Speaker 3 00:16:40 And once again, he's at work, he striked really hard. He's gone to every meeting to every project, every, every kind of volunteer work that you can think of because he was told that as a bonus, he would get a Chinese bike. And fortunately, he's, he's got past stuff for the bike. He doesn't get the bike. And, uh, he decides that if he can't get the bike, he's going to build one himself. And so out of spare parts, he starts building this bike that he says, it's going to be the tallest bicycle on the Island or the top, at least the tallest bicycle in his little town. Right. Um, once again, the dream is, uh, doesn't count out as his wife, Maria is afraid that, you know, all these crazy ideas that his, he has in his ingenuity and, um, that will get them in trouble.
Speaker 3 00:17:33 Um, it would be against the, the Regina, um, ideological, uh, demands. And so she asks him to tear down the bike and he's heartbroken. Um, but he does it. And then there is his best friend's bike, um, which he later inherit. And something happens to that one to that one to that one too. So he never gets the bike that, that he has dreamt about. And, you know, the bike, like I said at the beginning is, is that one thing that he couldn't have before and after the revolution. So to me, it represents the lack of real change between the two, the two regimes. Um, and, uh, and also of course, you know, just in general childhood dream, the desire for the Northern neighbor as well, it's an American bike. It's not just any bike that he desires when he's 13 years old. And so it also represents that, right, but the Northern neighbor or America calling out to him through this one, um, this one bike,
Speaker 4 00:18:44 Another image that is very interesting is books. Uh, Maria Love his books, and then she doesn't and Leo doesn't love books, and then he does, and he starts stealing them from the library and whatnot. Um, what, uh, what is your concept or your, uh, image? What are you trying to convey with that whole idea?
Speaker 3 00:19:10 Well, I mean books and this was true, true for me. I, I grew up in, in Cuba. Um, and so we didn't, we didn't arrive in the United States until 1981. And there wasn't, you know, there wasn't much in Cuba. I was lucky that my mom was a local librarian. And so I would get books that way. My dad, you know, would do what he could to, to find me a book. I was, you know, an avid reader, um, and books really were an estate, you know, an escape for me. There, there were no toys, um, not a lot, a lot to do or places to go to. And so books became that other world that I could, that I could visit and escape to, um, whenever I needed to. And I needed to quite a bit. And so in the novel that they're definitely van, you know, they're, they're both friends, friends, and fellow at the same time.
Speaker 3 00:20:03 And in some cases they keep the characters from really appreciating the life that they're living through an unnecessarily appreciating, but really, um, really dealing with their reality. And in other cases, they provide a kind of a kind of, um, they become a kind of therapeutic device that they use to be able to survive the nothingness of every day. And so, you know, we have two characters here that, that loves books very much. Like you said, Elliot didn't like books at the beginning, or at least he didn't lit on, but he did. And because of Maria, because she loves books, he starts speeding in a way to impress her. And, um, he becomes very fond of books. He has a stash under his, his old thin mattress. And, um, on the other hand, Maria, as reality starts seeping in through, through her fantasy life, um, she, she ends up getting rid of books altogether.
Speaker 3 00:21:05 And for me, it's, you know, I, I guess I, I think that for characters or for, for people who are in dire circumstances, it's very hard to, to find the time to read a book reading is, is a kind of privilege. And so, you know, Maria is too worried about what she's going to eat the next day. I'm too worried about the leaking refrigerator that, you know, she inherited and in this case probably inherited from her grandmother. Um, and, um, and trying to figure out survival to actually be able to get into any story that takes her away from that. Um, early on the other hand, he continues to hang on and one book that he absolutely loves and, and it has cost in some trouble is don't keep up. It Servon says, uh, you know, great, great work, don't hold it. And, um, you know, this is, this is really important.
Speaker 3 00:22:08 Don't you hope there was, was a character who insight of, uh, many challenges in spite of all the beatings that he did throughout his, his journey. He continues to take that leap of faith into the future, into the next quest or to me, um, the fact that Leo loves donkey holds in me that this is a character who really represents the best of the human spirit. So coincide of everything that's happening in his life, people, people leaving so many people leaving the Island. Um, so many things happening to him, the poor relationship he has, where her dad and all of that, he continues to dream every morning, he gets up and he has a new idea, a new dream, and he takes that leap of faith. Um, and so books in this case are, or that leap of faith. I think that the, the re not only the reality of a fiction, the truth in fiction, um, but the kind of, of dream that our book represents and that Leo is willing to, to dive into every day.
Speaker 4 00:23:18 Talk about your relationship to Cuba. You were born there, correct? Yes. And you say that it's your point of departure and sometimes your point of arrival, and I'm curious, uh, what that means to you, your whole relationship with Cuba.
Speaker 3 00:23:39 So Cuba is both a very joyful and very painful subject to, to take on because, you know, it's where it comes from. My, my roots are there. I, I spent, um, many years of my childhood there. Um, and, you know, uh, I had still have family there, all of that, but also painful because it's, it's what you left and what you left behind. And so as far as a point of departure, I guess what I mean is it's, you know, it's the origin and from the kind of lens that it provides for me and the, the assertive peeping hole I look through, um, when I look at the world, not always, you know, not always, I like to think that I've traveled enough to be able to, um, to understand the world through other lenses, but you, you can't rub off your, your origin. So in case, you know, I think Cuba informed really much of the work, um, much of the work that I, that I do in one way or another, even when the work is not about Cuba, um, at all, but there's a kind of Cuban sensibility or humor, or, um, you know, everything becomes sort of a Caribbean gesture or something like that.
Speaker 3 00:24:59 Um, and, and what I returned to well, it's, it's, um, it's kind of like chicken, chicken soup, you know, um, or soul food. It's, it's, uh, the place that when everything else goes, goes wrong, that sort of the place in my mind, or in my emotional and psychological wellbeing that I, that I returned to and, and crawled to when things are, you know, when things are not, not so good. Um, and in this case for this novel, this was certainly, um, a way of returning for me, it's something that I, that I looked forward every day as I was writing it to enter that world again, that had been so long since, you know, since I had visited. And I'd been back at a couple of times since then, since I left. Um, but certainly this was a return in the sense that I was able to, um, bring to life, the places that, that were familiar to me, the house where these characters live with my house as a child, um, and you and Maria were, you know, my great aunts and uncles, um, not everything is strictly autobiographical, but there's certainly a lot, a lot of that in this novel, because, you know, it's, it's the place that I went to to be able to mind for images and, uh, and information, you know, a lot of the things that are the situations that the characters have lived through in the novel are situations that I lived through while we were in Cuba.
Speaker 3 00:26:29 So it's, um, it's a real experience that you're getting that you're getting that not necessarily an inherited stories, if that makes sense.
Speaker 4 00:26:39 Yes. Um, it makes me think about home. Uh, there's a lot of, uh, there's people who want to go to the United States, there's people who want to stay at home. Um, uh, the characters seem to be looking for home a lot. Uh, and, um, could you speak to that?
Speaker 3 00:27:00 Yeah, it's, it's, um, it's terrible. You know what you say? It's, it's very true. There are people who are, um, who are not at home at home, you know, and I think that's a terrible, terrible feeling, right. Um, the place that she posed to provide for you, the kind of comfort of home, the hospitality, um, and protection of home, um, has turned against them in many ways. And so everyone is looking for a home or a house that represents the home, like, for example, from Maria, um, through some of the chapters, um, she's, she's hoping to, to be able to get this home and in Cuba, you can't, or you couldn't at this time, I think, you know, recently things have changed, but, um, at the time you couldn't sell your house and still what would happen if you wanted, if you wanted to move or gift to your home, to someone in here at your home to someone, um, you did a swap, so you'd have to go to their home and they would come to yours. So homelessness, um, in many ways has become the, the, the sort of, um, trope, you know, for Cubans, even on the Island,
Speaker 4 00:28:24 Um, we're coming to the end, believe it or not of our time. Uh, I have a kind of a double question. Um, you're a very accomplished writer with, uh, many publications and awards, and I'm wondering how this has changed you as you've moved forward in your writing and your connection to writing and, uh, yourself as a writer. And then I'd also like to know what's next.
Speaker 3 00:28:56 Um, so, um, um, um, I think I have that immigrant to the immigrant drive in many ways, Liz. So, you know, I don't think it has, it has changed me too much except in, in the sense that, you know, I feel like I have always felt since I was very young, that I was running out of time. Um, I didn't think at some point that I was going to make it to 16. So, you know, my own ideas, there was nothing really, you know, um, maybe teenage drama or what have you, but I've always felt that I'm running out of time. And now as I get older, I am running out of time. It turns out. And so I, I just feel like I need to get all those stories and, and all those ideas down on, on paper or whatever platform, you know, I ended up, I ended up choosing and what's next.
Speaker 3 00:29:49 I have, um, I have a musical coming up. Um, soon we're hoping it was, it was due to, for me in Miami, at the cubic center August 6th, but then, you know, COVID hit and that was postponed. We're looking forward to hopefully at the end of this year, bringing it on again to Miami first. It's, it's a wonderful musical about radio actually. Cool. Um, yeah. And then there's that it's called no student. No. And, um, then I have, I have a translation, um, that's, that's, uh, hopefully coming soon of short stories by, um, uh, a very famous and important, um, Cuban writer and if not refer, um, who was writing at the time of Zora Neale Hurston. So she was doing a lot of work similar to, to the work that her, her Stan was doing in Eatonville, Florida. Um, there's that I have a second novel called letters from Como, um, which I've been working on, um, portion time too. And, um, you know, a few, a few others that I can't remember right now, but that I know, but that I know are they're pending, you know? Um, so that's, that's, what's next, you know, a lot and, and hopefully helping, helping my, uh, my two beautiful daughters to navigate online schooling. That's also nice.
Speaker 4 00:31:16 Yes, boy, many projects, many projects. Well, we've reached the end of our time. Thank you so much. This has been a wonderful interview. I've enjoyed talking to you very much and, uh, we will have to say goodbye now.
Speaker 3 00:31:34 Goodbye. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4 00:31:36 Thank you for being here. You too. Bye-bye bye-bye programming is supported in part by the Minnesota department of health, reminding you to wear a cloth mask or a face covering when you will be around others, you may be transmitting the disease without knowing it because you can do so without you yourself, having any symptoms, be sure the mask completely covers your nose and your mouth for more information about protecting yourself and others from COVID 19 listened to KFH on Wednesdays at 6:30 PM for this special edition of Minnesota native news, COVID 19 community conversations <inaudible>
Speaker 5 00:33:29 You were on. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to write on radio on K F ai.org. I am Dave and I am here this evening with Brian sacrum. Brian, am I spelling? Am I spelling that correctly? Or am I,
Speaker 6 00:33:45 No, you're, you're doing both you, you've got it. Spelled and pronounced correctly. Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:33:50 Fantastic. So welcome to the show. Congratulations on the book.
Speaker 6 00:33:53 Thanks so much. It's wonderful to be on the show.
Speaker 5 00:33:56 Great, great. Uh, it's no small thing to put together a book of poems, so I congratulate you on that. And, um, before we, uh, get, uh, listened to one of your poems, because, uh, here on radon radio, we believe poems were meant to be heard, but, uh, let's hear a little bit about you you've, um, kind of spent your time around the country, if not the world. Um, how how'd you end up in Minneapolis?
Speaker 6 00:34:18 Oh gosh. Um, my, my, my parents were from the Midwest, but we traveled around a lot when I was growing up and, and I, uh, I went to college at McAllister college. I actually, I finished, I finished, uh, my senior, uh, I finished high school at Edison high school in Northeast Minneapolis. Uh, went to college at McAllister. Uh, took some creative writing classes, uh, really got hooked into writing and poetry there. Uh, did a few jobs, odd jobs after college. Uh, and then, uh, did an MFA at the university of Maryland. And I probably thought I was going to whip out a book of poems. You know, I was young and cocky. He would just whip out a book of poems just like that after, uh, after the MFA. And it's, it's been a lot longer, uh, journey, but it's been an, it's been a good journey. I'm still on it, so,
Speaker 5 00:35:14 Well, good for you. And you're here in Minneapolis, right? Where you belong. Uh, so you answered my second question before we have a reading, which is, what's your relationship to poetry? Is that when you got started writing poetry in college and you kept it up since,
Speaker 6 00:35:27 And I, and I've kept it up since, uh, just some wonderful, uh, people I took classes with. I think that's initially sort of what drew me in. And then, and then I realized there was something more going on that attracted me about the writing process. So yeah.
Speaker 5 00:35:44 Well, you clearly have a knack for it, so let's give our listeners a sense for what you're all about and give us a reading if you would, please.
Speaker 6 00:35:49 Yeah, thanks. Um, I thought I, um, th th there are a few poems in the collection that are about not having children. I thought I'd read, uh, one of those, and it's also, uh, timely in that Halloween enters into the poem and, and Halloween's right around the corner. So the, the poem is called with time. I'm the one to hollow the pumpkin and carve a face. The doorbell rings again. You adore the children tonight in their costumes, a warm night. We have no costumes, just the two of us and the space between forming a shape. We keep repeating my turn to go and hand out candy. We finally threw away the photo from the booth that merged our faces, a composite to show what a daughter of ours might look like. She looked freaky not being real. This isn't yours alone to carry. Isn't your failure. We won't let us drift apart, but there's nothing to work on or figure out with time. You'll say your body doesn't crave being a mother anymore. You can't say it now, your silence, a place into which I don't know how to follow you.
Speaker 5 00:37:25 That was Brian sat from reading from his poetry collection, starting again, Brian, that's a very powerful and personal poem. I admire you for reading it. Uh, I have to ask you, is it hard for you to write about things like this and put these feelings, these experiences out there for the world?
Speaker 6 00:37:46 Yeah, it, it, it's a challenge. Um, it, it's working my way up to it through, through language it's playing around with language and working my, my self there. I didn't just start out, uh, thinking, Oh, I was going to write this poem. Um, and, and I think that's the, that's a writing process for me for a lot of what I write. It's a, it's a discovery process. It's a mess. It's a messing around with, with words. And that allows me to kind of work my way to, to things like this. And I should mention it, you know, obviously it's, it's, it's personal to me, but it didn't, it includes, uh, you know, details about my wife too. So I'm, I'm grateful. She, she doesn't always have a choice and I'm grateful to her for, for going along with me on the ride sometimes too.
Speaker 5 00:38:38 I was going to ask you that because poets often write about their lives and their lives involve other people and some very raw stories come out in poems. And, uh, I think it's very brave to do. And it's a beautiful poem. Thank you for that. Um, and another theme in your book, at least as I, as I have read it, and you can tell me if I'm fair is this, this is a fair reading now. And I would, I would say the word belonging. Um, and I say that because a poll may, uh, be about, or in a place in California, then we're in Minnesota, then maybe we're in Wisconsin. And then we're just in some undefined location, but place seems very much a, a of many of these poems. Is that a fair reading?
Speaker 6 00:39:21 That's a great reading. I, I really appreciate your, uh, your noticing that, um, so I think belonging is important because I've lived a lot of different places. It's, uh, it's belonging, and it's also reflecting, uh, you know, reflecting back on those places and my experiences there. And I think another theme are very small. I mean, these are all sort of ordinary experiences, but they're all, I think they include small disconnects or just little loose threads or something like that. So that belonging, or that sense of longing for belonging, we might come from a sense of a, like a little disconnect, uh, that that's explored, uh, in, in, in the poem as well. So yeah, uh, LA was, was, was an area that, you know, I've spent quite a bit of time in and, and, and, and in Madison, Wisconsin as well. So, yeah.
Speaker 5 00:40:21 I love Madison. Yes. Yes. Um, so speaking of place, um, I was just thinking about this as I'm sitting here in this increasingly <inaudible> ISED world, and that's the word, but, um, as a poet, w what does COVID been like for you sheltering in place, social distancing? Um, I'm gonna, I'm going to make an assumption here that for a port that's pretty good. I mean, you know, leave me alone and let me, right. Uh, how, how have you reacted as a writer to, um, to living in a COVID world?
Speaker 6 00:40:53 It's, it's been mixed? Um, for one thing, my book came out in the middle of COVID. So all these various plans I had for letting people know about the book, but actually it's been fine because, uh, things have happened in ways that I, that I didn't expect. So, uh, so that's fine. Um, uh, the writing has been on and off and COVID because my, my whole world has been, been turned upside down, um, and as have all of ours. So, um, and, uh, you know, I think my writing actually comes out of a lot of silence. Don't know if it doesn't, it doesn't just flow out. So I've, I've, I've had that experience, this, this last year where I've, I've spent a lot of quiet time writing stuff that hasn't come together at all. And then, and then there'll be these little clumps of things that'll come together, whether it's images or ideas. Um, uh, but, uh, it's been, it's been mixed, uh, as has been my sort of emotional experience in this time.
Speaker 5 00:42:00 I believe you started addressing one of my favorite questions for writers, especially poets, which is how you work. That is to say whether poems, you know, are born fully formed in your mind, and you just write them down, or, you know, you struggle, you drink blood on the page, you know, and all these sorts of, you know, metaphors
Speaker 6 00:42:17 Or the latter when it's easy, it, it, it's not just dripping blood. It, it, it is a, it's a discovery. It's, it's, it's an exploring. Um, uh, it's kind of a, it's a feeling my way around, in the dark a little bit, but with, with words. So, so there are a lot of words get put on the page, but they're not all the ones that end up in the, in the poem. And there's an awful lot of stuff that can get written on the page. It just does not end up in any kind of a poem at all.
Speaker 5 00:42:54 Sure, sure. Wow. Let's, let's hear another one. Yeah. If you don't mind, Brian, um, maybe give us one, you know, pick, pick a place poem, if you will, a belonging poem, how's that snow, I'd love to get those lined up and it's throwing you off
Speaker 6 00:43:09 Love to you were, you were talking about Madison, how much you love Madison. So here's, here's a, here's a Madison poem for you. And it is, it is also that, uh, that reflecting back. And it's also that a little incongruity, um, and just observing that, um, it's called from within, uh, Lake Monona, Madison, Wisconsin,
Speaker 6 00:43:40 Acolytes of the sluggish McGee, dark their dozen or so rods. The tip of one dipping into the Stillwater, crowded around a spot where street runoff empties into the Lake black and among anglers casting from shore. Some sitting on large plastic buckets and white anglers from aluminum boats. They've brought in close a ball game on a radio bobbers with lights like fireflies above the surface though. Fireflies don't hover above surfaces surfaces, or Bob, but trace part of an arc like a match as it's tossed away. Otis Redding's plane went here on the way to his next show. I doubt he knew the name of the Lake, his thoughts, other places, when he traveled, if you walk this path certain times of day, you'll notice a loon close enough to see the rig in its eye, strange in the reflection of a power plant of four tall smokestacks and a city skyline. Have you caught a fish of any kind from within that stillness, you feel a tug at first, you're not sure what it is, your heart, something in your chest.
Speaker 5 00:45:16 Great. That was Brian sat from reading from starting it again, his collection of poems. I'll remind our listeners that they are listening to right on radio on Kate F a I F M 90.3, a community supported radio station, ladies and gentlemen, as you well know, we just ended our, uh, pledge drive of fall or slash winter, whatever it is right now. Um, thanks to all you who donated. And, uh, Hey, you can do that
[email protected]. So thanks for that. And I'm glad you read this poem, Brian, because I love it. And, um, I was going to bring it up in this regard. I love this metaphor of the barbers. I'm going to read this again. If you'll allow me bobbers with lights, like fireflies above the surface, the fireflies don't hover above surfaces or bomb a trace part of an arc, like a match as it's tossed away.
Speaker 5 00:46:07 So that actually made me smile, almost laugh out loud because, um, does suggest some confidence in your writing, the sense that you would suggest a metaphor right away say, you know, that's really wrong and anyone who's paying attention is going to realize that I just really goofed on this poetry thing here. And then you give us this beautiful, um, um, the description of the match has it's tossed away as the arc on Firefly. And so I thought that was really clever and that shows a certain confidence in your writing. So I admire that and I'll call it one more, um, similarly out of nowhere, which is, um, you, it's a sort of a meta momentary where you address the reader directly. Maybe you're smiling at the image of the way I'm smiling now. Um, so I, I mentioned in these as an observation, but it suggests to me that, um, you have a certain amount of confidence. I'll use that word again and in your writing, and these are intentional moves on your part. Poets don't do anything without intention. Uh, so, uh, you'd like to talk directly to the reader.
Speaker 6 00:47:12 Yes, very much so, very much so I, um, a sense of, of, of conversation and that that's come from poetry that I admire a lot in part. And in part, um, it, it creates an energy, uh, and a flow and it helps helps me find, uh, the Palm. So it's, it's, it's not just what I'm describing and what I'm talking about, but, uh, but the tone, the tone really holds the poem together in that, um, that, that conversational tone is one that I've I've I found, um, I don't know if comfortable is the right word, but the valuable
Speaker 5 00:47:57 It works. It works. It's like we're having a conversation with you. So, um, uh, you did it, you nailed it. I think Brian, um, so I think another thing that holds homes together at least suggests, um, some sort of togetherness is for the way they look on a page, right? The way, um, the millions of listeners that tune in all the time and hear me say this, but I react instantly to, when I see a poem on the page, right, the way it's shaped, it might look structured formal. It could be a lot of broken lines, maybe not even much punctuation at all. It immediately gives off a signal about what type of poem this is gonna be, um, was his support intensive and he, or she certainly must because, uh, so when you do, when, when does form become obvious to you that a certain poem will take a certain shape? And why do you vary your shape, your farms? This is all free verse, but
Speaker 6 00:48:56 It's all free verse. Uh, and there is a variety of, of shape on the, on the page. And, uh, it, it, it, it, again, I kind of comes out of, uh, out of a messing around and I should back up a little bit, and I should say one of the forms that you'll find that I've been gravitating toward more and more has sort of shorter and longer lines. And then it, it, you know, it's got a fair amount of space in there, and it took me a long time to arrive at that. Uh, I felt there was a time when my, my poems were almost a little too tight, a little too compact, and it was, um, uh, the metaphor I think of is a, um, it's like the cellophane that goes across a microwave dinner. It's like, it's stretched too tight. And I was looking for ways of like, with a fork kind of poking holes into it, uh, as a way of giving myself some breathing room in the poem and it, and it took me a long, it took me a long time to discover that for myself.
Speaker 6 00:50:00 Uh, um, uh, so that's a little background and then to kind of go back to your question, um, um, it, it, it involves, it involves in parallel with the evolution of the poem as I'm, as I'm writing it. So I really start with, I'm going to, I'm going to shape the poem this way, or I'm going to shape the poem that, uh, as, as I get a better sense of the tone of the poem, uh, uh, I get a sense of where I want to break the lines, and then that helps me give it, it gives me an idea of, okay, what, what kind of a container might, might this work better in?
Speaker 5 00:50:41 Yeah, yeah. Great. Uh, and it works the same way for a reader too, right. This idea of era. And I think that was really well-described reading. Um, uh, right. Uh, so I want to go back to where poems come from for you. Um, can you talk a little bit about that, um, uh, inspiration, if that for you, or if this is just something which I would accept that you just need to do, or you're gonna, you know, lose your mind or something, if you don't write things down, I get that too. How does it work
Speaker 6 00:51:12 Again, the, again, the ladder, or maybe it's, it's somewhere in between. I do, you know, often I start with, uh, you know, maybe experiences, but I find that the poem shifts on me and often the, uh, maybe the experience that I start with, um, isn't exactly what I end up with at the end. And sometimes even the experience, um, tastes kind of a secondary role and, and, and, and I'm starting to discover, again, part of his way I'm expressing it. It's the expression that starts to, to kind of carry it. And what w what I thought the moment was about. It ends up not being about that. And again, in that sort of her playing with words kind of starts to carry me, uh, somewhere else. So, so the poem ends up with a, with a different, uh, w with it, with a different focus than, um, it's really, wow, I've got this flash of inspiration.
Speaker 6 00:52:17 I gotta, I gotta get this thing written down. It's, it's more, I'm getting, maybe I've got an idea for a moment, or I'm getting phrases on the page and those lead to other phrases and other things. And they, and they, and they take me to something else because the first thing honestly, that I started writing about was, was quite boring. Uh, and I'm quite bored with it, or my wife who reads all my poems, uh, looks at a draft and she's quite bored with it. And then we've got to find a way to move on from there. Right.
Speaker 5 00:52:47 Do you want associated with your writing that's for sure. Yeah. Um, yeah. I got to ask you a question for myself. So the Dakota jazz club in downtown Minneapolis shows up in one of your poems. I love that. Yeah. And I hope to, I hope it survives COVID um, so you're reference a particular performer, unless this is it, this performer is a generic performer, but I gotta, I gotta know who you're talking about.
Speaker 6 00:53:13 Zahn Vega. It was a wonderful concert. It was, it was, it was wonderful. Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:53:20 Well, I mean, I thank you now. I'm happy now. So Minneapolis shows up in other places in here and the mini river does and, um, uh, and I found myself wanting to, you know, figure out where on the river, uh, you were writing about, uh, are these places, or are they just sort of,
Speaker 6 00:53:43 I, I live six blocks from the river. I live in South Minneapolis. Uh, actually I was just walking over there, uh, this afternoon, but Chile, a bit windy. Uh,
Speaker 5 00:53:53 But yes. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:53:56 Um, so yeah, yeah, and, and it, it has a presence in my life and I, I did want to have that work its way into my poetry as well.
Speaker 5 00:54:07 This is off the, off the tracks a little bit here, but did you go down underneath the stone arch bridge when they lowered the water? Did you do, did do keep track of that happen? Yes, that's amazing.
Speaker 6 00:54:19 Yes.
Speaker 5 00:54:23 All right. Well, that's apropos of nothing at the poetry. Um, I have a lot of questions here. Oh, uh, poems and pros show up as epigraphs, uh, in your poems. Uh, so leads me to wonder, so who are your favorite writers? Uh, you can talk about why you chose some poems.
Speaker 6 00:54:44 Yeah. Um, so Christopher Gilbert is, is one who I've actually relatively recently, uh, discovered, but he's really at the top of my list. Um, he came out with one book in his life. Um, he was in the early eighties. Um, uh, but then he wrote a bunch of other stuff in gray Wolf, uh, came out with, with a collection of all of that a few years ago, it's called, turning into dwelling, turning into dwelling. And I, and everyone who's listening to this right now, uh, should, should get that book. I came across it and one of my favorite bookstores, uh, it was, it was just there and, and, and it's mine, it's mine going poetry. Uh, so do you have a gram? <inaudible> they all they're there for a reason, but I wanted to get him in nice cardless.
Speaker 5 00:55:43 Yeah. Well good. And so he's not, he's clearly an influence. Yeah. Uh, we're running down. I think he's, uh, uh, our good friend Liz there in the studio, lips and fingers letting us know we're getting close. Yeah. So before I ask any other questions, let's get to what you're working on next or, uh, where we can find some of your work beyond this book, which everyone should buy. Um, you have a website, you keep homes on your web.
Speaker 6 00:56:07 I have, I have, I have a website. It's Brian sacrum.com. It's all one word. Brian sacrum.com. Um, uh, I'm, I'm working on another book actually. I'm well into another book. It, uh, not much of it has been published out there yet, but I'm hoping to get it out there on the world. And, and then get that on my, uh, on my website. Uh,
Speaker 5 00:56:30 Do you plan, are you one of these boats who likes to get most of the poems out there in some way shape or form before they put it in a book?
Speaker 6 00:56:36 I really do. I really do. And it's something I, um, I didn't in the early days of my writing, I wasn't doing very much. And, uh, and, and of late I've, I've really been working on getting my, my work out there in the, in the world more so, so this, you know, in this book is, is a, is a wonderful first step in that direction. Um,
Speaker 5 00:56:54 It's a wonderful step first step. Yeah. We'll be getting much more, uh, let's not pay attention to what Liz is going to tell us, but that's sneak one more Pullman. What do you think? Okay.
Speaker 6 00:57:07 I was going to read the, um, the title poem. Okay. Um, starting again. Perfect. The moon grows fuller from right to left and it's spreading darkness to later in the month from right to left things. I'm discovering the sun came up this morning in the glass of downtown. And for a moment, I thought of all of us as windows of flame before the sky dolled, again, you're quieter having a harder time just being though there's nothing out of the ordinary to point to maybe because, and I'm not helping much a transplant from LA enamored of the Midwest. You're always, you always find ways to celebrate the seasons, picking up a red leaf from the sidewalk, placing it as a centerpiece on the dining room table. I'd give you a kiss on the mouth as a way of avoiding answering your question. You asked what I was doing when I got out of bed last night to jot down a note in pencil, I was starting again, seeing what I can piece together by naming one thing I know. So later I can add to it. Another,
Speaker 5 00:58:36 That was great. Thank you, Brian. That's Brian Sacha and reading from starting again, his collection of poems. What a treat to meet you.
Speaker 6 00:58:42 Wonderful to be on the show. I just want to call out to that subtext book and majors and Quinn actually have this and they're, um, there's stores that are actually open. You can walk in and browse. So, uh, they're, they're wonderful stores, uh, otherwise, too, but I just thought I'd, I'd mentioned that.
Speaker 5 00:59:00 Thank you for doing that. I should have asked you subtext and majors and queen. You can get bright book, uh, starting again there, and you listeners can listen to this and many other shows on our podcast, get at your podcast, going people. Uh, that's it. Liz, can I turn this back to you now? And thank you, Brian.
Speaker 6 00:59:19 Thanks so much, Dave. All right.
Speaker 7 00:59:23 Hey there, this is
Speaker 8 00:59:24 Harmar superstar, and I'm checking in to let you know your community needs you. We've got a huge national election coming up and now more than ever, your vote matters. If you're planning on voting early or plan on dropping off a ballot, you can research how and where to do that. Right now, if you're planning on voting by mail via the USBs, there's a recommendation that all ballots need to be mailed at least two weeks ahead of election day and maybe more. So we all need to get organized and aware of our state deadlines. Be heard by voting this November and learn more about how to affect change locally in your County.
