Speaker 1 00:02:25 You are listening to right on radio on Tampa 90.3 FM and streaming on the
[email protected]. I'm Liz Alz. Tonight on right on radio. David will be talking with Randy Lou Elman, the author of Maroons, a human epic, and Maroons the journey. The first two parts of a Saifai trilogy that tells the dramatic story of a law of a few humans who survive at global pandemic only to find that have to somehow rebuild a civilization of his fear, distrust the violence of love while at work. And part three of Maroons, Randy resided in the winter in South Dakota, where he still sometimes straps on the two belt and engages in his lifetime craft of masonary.
Speaker 2 00:03:27 And the last part of the show, Liz talks with Robert <inaudible>, the bestselling and critically acclaimed author of the extraordinary life of Sam hell. His latest work. The world played chess is a story of two friends in the seventies. One who went to Vietnam and one who didn't all the s'mores. So stay tuned to write on radio.
Speaker 3 00:04:25 Welcome back to the right on radio. I'm Dave FEDA, your host for this segment and joining us this evening is Randy Lew Allen Randy. Welcome. Thank
Speaker 4 00:04:34 You, Dave. Thanks for letting me come on your
Speaker 3 00:04:36 Show. Absolutely. We're thrilled to have you, Randy is the author of a trilogy trilogy in the works. It's a Saifai trilogy. The first two volumes are out there in the world. Take a look. It's Maroons, a human epic and Maroons the journey. Third volume to come out.dot, dot. I'll let Randy finish that sentence, Randy. When's the third line coming out?
Speaker 4 00:04:58 Well, it's at the editor right now and she's up to chapter 13 and, uh, it has quite a few chapters in it. Third one. And, uh, uh, she, I, I have a lot of confidence in her. I think, I think it will be out hopefully by the end of the year.
Speaker 3 00:05:16 Wonderful. That's wonderful. It's a compelling story, uh, set in contemporary, uh, times, but yet in future times, uh, Randy, why don't you give us a, a broad story arc of, uh, what, uh, what we're dealing with with Maroons. Um, and then, um, I have a number of questions we'll get to as many as we can and a little bit of a reading. So tell us, um, well maybe back up, let's back up. We've had this chat before live on the radio. Um, how did this come to you?
Speaker 4 00:05:46 Well, it was w I, I call it a download Dave. I was, uh, I was lost in the jungle, uh, hiking on the island of Dominika in the Caribbean. And, uh, I chosen, uh, with my girlfriend, we climbed the highest peak, which few people do, uh, there's a trail, if you can call it that. And we stashed our PACS way down below, uh, headed at the top. And, um, on the way down, we've got hopelessly lost, I mean, hopeless. And we ended up spending the night out in the forest. It was quite magical, but anyway, having been on the island, uh, we had visited a Fort there, there would, it was built by the English way back in the 17 hundreds. And it was a fascinating story. Uh, and, and then on the mountain that this download came down for this book, I don't know how to, I don't know how to explain it. Uh,
Speaker 3 00:06:41 I love it. I love it. Yeah. I I've heard authors talk about, um, that they didn't find the story, that story found them. And that's what sounds like happened to you.
Speaker 4 00:06:51 Yeah, exactly. And, and the first chapter of the, of Maroons is actually a real story that really happened. I just made up the names and filled in the characters and, um, and so that's where it all begins. And that's very, that's just for people to understand really what a maroon is. I mean, the ruins were, uh, escaped slaves that went into the forest and established their own communities and, and they, and they couldn't find them. They were so deep in the jungle and they kept so hidden. And so that's where I came up with the title more rooms. And, uh, it, it fit real well because it's imagine if you will, Dave diabolical plot by somebody to, and, uh, and it goes hopelessly wrong wipes out majority of the human race. And, uh, you're running
Speaker 3 00:07:50 Randy, I'm gonna stop you right there. Because, uh, when I read, when I read this it's compelling on many levels, but also we've just gone through a pandemic and we still are in the middle of a pandemic, um, or maybe coming out of it, whatever the case might be. But, uh, you know, you read something like that, a scifi sort of premise, you think, okay. Yeah, that'll never happen, but indeed it can certainly happen. Um, and it's a virus, right?
Speaker 4 00:08:16 It is, it's a man-made virus. And, uh, I've actually had people come up and say, what are you a prophet or something? And I go, no, I'm not, I'm not a profit and hope. And I hope to God, this never happens. Uh, uh, but, but it is, it is the, the creation of diabolical people and, um, and, uh, the aftermath, but what's really more important. Is it, is it those people that survived? I mean, how you have to think about how would you deal with creating a new society, if you will, knowing what size society that you left behind, uh, what would you do? How would you change it? Well, how would you make a difference? And that is kind of what this is all about. And, uh, and then it takes an even greater twist when a human beings, I don't want to give it away, but the virus, the virus has an impact, not just to kill people, but it, uh, it changes people and I'm not going to go too much into that, but, uh, the way, the way people change and, and, uh, it's, it's, it's quite, uh, uh, it's, I don't know how to explain, but I I've, I've been able to do a lot of things with this story.
Speaker 4 00:09:41 Um, the second book, the first book is basically the cataclysmic act and the people, the gathering of these people and, and, and what happens. And then some of them wipe out each other. I mean, it's just, it's very realistic. Um, the second book I've been toying with it kind of a different theory of spiritual spirituality, uh, not too far different than what it is, but it leaves out certain aspects of, of, of most spiritual beliefs. And, uh, and I, and I got to think of, should I write a book about it? And my wife said, why don't you put it in story form? And so the second book, the journey is basically, I'm actually continuing the same story, but I'm throwing in this theory of, uh, of the way to look at the world. And, um, I don't know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm very proud of it. And then the third book of courses,
Speaker 3 00:10:42 Go ahead. Well, I'll tell you by setting yourself up for this story, you could've gone. You could've gotten away with just writing the first volume, or even taking some edge off the first volume and just giving us this cataclysmic story and how some few people survive and then let it drop kind of like a scifi movie. But, uh, once you've taken upon yourself to do Randy, which I admire you for is to do what you said earlier, which is to try to describe in effect, build a model, um, for how people could rebuild civilization in effect, um, and how different groups of people react to these extreme situations. Um, what type of ideas take hold? What type of ideas work better than others? It's, uh, um, I admire you for taking it on.
Speaker 4 00:11:33 Yeah, yeah. And Dave, I'll tell you what, no matter who survives, uh, and what have you, we still have to deal with being hopelessly human and all the things that trip us up now, or they're at a up then. And, and how, how do people deal with that? And maybe they don't, and maybe, maybe it, maybe it gets worse or maybe it never gets better. Maybe things stay the same, but in my book, hopefully it moves in more of a better direction.
Speaker 3 00:12:07 Yeah. Yeah. Um, I'm gonna ask you to do a little reading, Randy. We'd like to do that for our listeners to get a sense for the style of the author and your voice. Um, but before we do that, um, I want to talk about Randy as Randy in this story. Um, I've had the pleasure of getting to know you a little bit and hope to get to know even better in the future. Um, but we tend to do this when we read stories about people we know, um, where they fit in here. And are you Welsh Randy? Yes,
Speaker 4 00:12:37 Of course. Very, very much, very much.
Speaker 3 00:12:40 I thought. So what's the name and, um, well shows up in here. I'm not going to try to pronounce this wonderful phrase. Uh, go ahead and tell me how to pronounce B Getty T I'm going to write a phonetic spelling. So
Speaker 4 00:12:56 It means, it means I'm loving you.
Speaker 3 00:12:59 Ah, yes. Um, so, uh, when did you decide to bring that in? I guess another way to ask that, ask that question is these idea of Welsh stories or mythology or legend and, uh, uh, you pull from so many different, um, streams, if you will. Um, uh, boy, where do I want to go with this question? What was sort of your guiding, um, idea when you were dreaming this one up? Well,
Speaker 4 00:13:34 Dave, all the characters in my book, I use people that I knew for those characters. I used their names. I use some of their attributes, maybe some of their physical characteristics. It helped me remember them better. And, um, uh, when you, when you talk about whales, I, I went to school in Wales. Oh, wow. And, um, learned a little bit of the language. I mean, that's my roots. And, uh, and the, and the gal that I was on this hike with, uh, her name was Sue and, um, she's kind of the main character in the book, as you've probably figured out. She was also with me when we went and we did, uh, a walk across Wales it's called, uh, the Cleveland. I couldn't do her. It means when doers way. And it's a path across Wales and you just go from little town, a little town, you don't even carry a backpack. And, you know, there's always a meal and a bed and breakfast wherever you go. And, uh, and it was, and so I learned a lot on that trip. And, um, so anyway, anyway, so,
Speaker 3 00:14:46 Um, I wrote that one down. I'm gonna look that one up, Randy. Yes. Let me look that one up,
Speaker 4 00:14:53 I better spell it for you. Libra is spelled two, a double L w Y B R. The Welsh don't use a lot of vowels and a and two L's is a cl sound. Um, and, uh, Glendora is G L E N D U R. And he was, he was, uh, he rebelled against the British, and of course they ended up killing him, but, uh, it's called Glen doers way. And, uh, it's wonderful. They, they, it's a wonderful thing to do. And I I've often thought about going back and doing another Welsh walk like that anyway. That's uh, so whales came into and big time.
Speaker 3 00:15:41 Yeah. See, Randy, give us a little taste for your writing. Is that the reading up for us?
Speaker 4 00:15:50 Okay. Now this is a, this comes out of book number two, ruins the journey. And, um, basically it includes all the characters from the first book, plus some, but primarily it follows two characters that are there, weren't in the first book and they, and they, there are two, two men. Um, RK is an old Vietnam vet who came back from the Tet offensive and went to Woodstock and met Deseret the love of his life. And, uh, they became toured the country in a VW van and did everything that hippies did back then. Um, and they, they decided to find a isolated place from society because they, they pretty much had enough with, uh, government and things that had gone on. And what have you. And so they ended up in Montana. Well, he, uh, Deseret doesn't survive the plague, but, but RK does. And in the midst of it, he, he finds this baby, this newborn baby in the midst of this plague that also survives.
Speaker 4 00:16:57 And so he raises this child for 20 years and, uh, he doesn't know if there is any survivors and, uh, he's looked around Montana, but not very far because he has a baby. And at some point he decides, um, they need to find other survivors. There must be somebody else out there. And so he, and, um, Justin, the name of the baby who basically he's known only RK is his father. And, um, these guys look like a couple of mountain men out of the 1820s. Uh, and, and, and they have all those characteristics. They look like they, they've learned to adapt. They're avid hunters. What have you? And they're on horseback. And they're traveling and are traveling from city to city, looking for survivors and in this particular chapter. And then, and throughout it, all, RK is explaining to Justin this spiritual theory that he's come up with.
Speaker 4 00:17:59 And he's, and Justin is always asking questions about the before time, because he sees massive buildings and things and relics and things left over no people, but he has all these questions. And so this particular chapter takes place there in Mendocino county, California. And, um, they have, uh, of course come across massive fields of herbs that are growing wild. And, uh, our cave takes him back to the old hippie days. And then he's happy there. And he, and they, he's kind of locked in and saying, well, maybe we'll just, we'll just stay here. And, uh, this, this is in that chapter, great. Justin had become a fine hunter and an excellent shot. He can move silently through the thickest forest, something RK never mastered. Justin obliged, the old man telling him the process and vivid D Dale Dale, down to the smell in the air and look in the animal's eye.
Speaker 4 00:18:59 He's talking about an animal, an elk. He had killed after they male. They lit up the pipe with a sacred or been imbibed. Justin looked over and asked father, why doesn't the herbs grow in our home in Montana? It can and does, but it was forbidden in the before time. And a few grew it, our paver RK responded forbidden. How could such a wonderful thing be forgotten? Jay forbidden, just NASA said we would put people in things called jails and punish them. If they were caught growing or smoking it, there were many laws and rules. So many. I cannot remember RK returned. Justin looked at this man. He respected for a long time. How could you let them do that father? He spoke almost accusingly RK sat a long time and finally responded. I did let them do it son. We all did. It's hard to explain.
Speaker 4 00:20:02 Do you remember how I told you how there was so much lying? Justin shook his head. RK continued. Do you remember how I told you that all experience comes from either love or fear? Justin nodded again, RK grimaced plying comes from fear and there was so much fear, fear, permeated. Our society destroyed the things that mean the most store in love. Freedom, RK, move closer to the fire, engaged into it. Those who love freedom were far fewer than those that were consumed with fear. In the end, I think he was fear that caused the event that killed everyone.
Speaker 4 00:20:44 After a long pause, Justin spoke father, what were they afraid of? What were you afraid of? RK turned to look at Justin as if he had done something amazing and blew out through his nose. When something clear had Dawn on him, we were afraid of difference different from what we believed from what we were used to losing control new ideas. The list is endless. I was afraid too afraid of what could be taken from me, especially my freedom. That is why Deseret and I went to live in such a remote place away from everyone else. All the lies and stories we made up our case stood up and stretches arms wide and looked up into the stars in the sky. This is ed my son, this life we wasted. When we live in fear, we forget to live in a best, prepare the earth so that our progeny could live even better. We failed our descendants RK, let his arms drop to a side. I must not fail you tomorrow. We head south and continue our search for survivors. I love you, son justice rose up and embrace the old man as he broke into tears.
Speaker 3 00:22:18 Thank you. That was Randy Llewellyn, L U a L L I N. Reading from the second volume of his trilogy, maroon. The journey. The first volume is Maroons, a human epic, and the third volume is forthcoming. Look him up. Randy, Lou Allen, Randy. That was a beautiful passage. Um, so much there to talk about living in fear, my goodness. Um, and like all good. Saifai it speaks to us in the present. Um, Randy, want to ask you about nature, uh, is a beautiful nature writing through, uh, uh, uh, Maroons. Um, are you a naturalist or are you, are you a man of the woods and the great Plains and all of that?
Speaker 4 00:23:02 Oh yeah. I have, uh, I've been hunting most of my life and there's something, there's a connection when you hunt, if you really hunt. Um, we used to say that the degree of success in honey hunting is equal to the amount that you suffer when you, when you, when you get up early in the morning. I mean way before the break of Dawn, you'd go out and it is cold bone chilling, cold and sit there and try to be quiet for hours. Okay. But you listen and you hear everything. And I, I have, I, I, could you, a lot of stories. I have seen moose combating bull moose can a metal in front of me. Wow. And they didn't know I was there. I have, I have had a coyote walk right up behind me. Good grief. Uh, I mean, it's, there's something about that connection now, and I'm not talking about driving down the road, shooting out the window, I'm talking about hunting and, um, and when you learn the smells, I knew when I could smell an elk, the safety went off immediately. I knew that I was stat close.
Speaker 3 00:24:22 Um,
Speaker 4 00:24:24 So yeah. It's
Speaker 3 00:24:26 Yeah. Well that explains it, Randy, that is your very vivid nature writing. I must say that's an added, that's an added bonus listeners. If you love nature writing, you're going to get some really beautiful words in, um, in these books. Uh, Randy, by the way, I'm going to mention to our listeners that you're coming to us from one of the most beautiful parts in the world, north America, for sure. And that's the Western South Dakota. I would include Western North Dakota in that I'm a North Dakota boy. Um, Western Dakotas are gorgeous and, um, uh, you have a privileged, privileged view of nature out there. That's for sure. Don't you?
Speaker 4 00:24:59 I need indeed. You're exactly right, Dave. I feel so blessed to be here.
Speaker 3 00:25:06 Yeah. It's a special, special place. Um, I also, uh, know that, uh, you're a Mason by craft by profession. And, uh, I want to ask you about the parallels if there are any, because I was thinking about this. I used to work in the concrete business, precast concrete business. So I'm pretty good with a trial, but that's, as far as my building goes. Um, but I was thinking about crafting a story, building a world, which is in effect what you have done and building itself as a Mason. Um, do you ever think about that connection? What you do with your hands, what you do with your fingers when you type,
Speaker 4 00:25:41 I think it's a huge connection, Dave. I mean, I'm amazed. Masonry is such an old, old trade, perhaps one of the oldest and, um, yeah, it's vanishing and, uh, but there's, there's something about masonry, uh, when you're done looking at what you built, knowing that my God, that's probably going to outlive me and maybe even my children and my children's children and, uh, and masonry is, is particularly brick. I mean, stone is one and Blockwood brick is such a methodical, repetitive, and, uh, you just get in a rhythm and, and the day would just fly by. I mean, I do that. I did for 35 years, Dave and I love going to work every goddamn day. That's beautiful.
Speaker 3 00:26:39 Yeah,
Speaker 4 00:26:39 No, and, and I, uh, a lucky man is a man who loves to go to work. Yes. And I did
Speaker 3 00:26:46 That's I love that. I love it. Yeah. I love that. And, um, and building something to last forever and that's true of stories too, right?
Speaker 4 00:26:55 Yeah. Yeah. And you meet the most interesting people and it takes a certain type to be amazed. It really does. And, uh,
Speaker 3 00:27:08 Well, I can talk about this, but we're so stuck about your book. So we, we got a few minutes left. I want to keep doing this. Speaking of stories that last forever, at the end of the first volume, uh, uh, human epic, there is a, um, a murder, uh, reminded me of the Kane enables story in Genesis. Um, it did to what degree did some of these old, and I'll call them myths, uh, various religious myths and these legends or whatever you want to call them. And I don't mean to offend anyone, but there's a lot of stories, many cultures have their stories. Um, to what degree do these influence your, um, your storytelling, these old stories?
Speaker 4 00:27:48 Oh, well, I mean, I, Dave, I grew up in a very conservative Christian household, so, so, so the Bible is gonna, is gonna show up in there somehow and you're right. I even, I think I, I think I even used the name Abel, and then that story and, uh, uh, no, it's, it is very much like that. However, it w it wasn't about it. Wasn't about God. It was about love and sex and romance and, um, uh, being with the wrong person or whatever you want to call it. And, uh, it was about betrayal. It was about, uh, um, it was all those things. And, and that, this one thing about the Bible, I mean, particularly the old Testament, it tells you the dirt about people. Uh, uh, my nickname Uriah, that's my favorite story of the Bible. It shows the duplicity of the Bible, uh, because here's
Speaker 3 00:28:51 This tell us the story
Speaker 4 00:28:54 Of Uriah. Uriah is Uriah was the husband of bashed Sheba. He was one of David King, David, who is the man after God's own heart. And, uh, he was one of David's most faithful and loyal, uh, soldiers. And when Dave was back in town and his army was out in the field, he sees a Uriah, his wife bathing on the rooftop calls for have sex with her in pregnancy. And so to hide this, he calls Uriah back from the field, and he's hoping that he'll sleep with his wife. And he'll never know, but he doesn't, he, he don't, he won't go in the house and he, and he calls him to him. He says, why, why don't you sleep with your, and he says, my men are in the field. How can I do that? When my men are in the field, I mean, basically with shame shameful for David the way. And so David sends him back with his own note that he never reads, but he carries it to the general and says, I want you to put your eye out front on the next attack. And then I want you to pull back so that he gets killed.
Speaker 3 00:30:04 I remember that story now.
Speaker 4 00:30:07 And then, uh, and so he does, and, um, and Dave never suffers the consequences for that sin. He's the God man after God's own heart. And I, and, and I, I chose the name nickname Uriah, because I love that guy. You know, he was loyal. He was good. He was faithful. He was honest. He was brave. And what did he get for it?
Speaker 3 00:30:33 Yep. I hear ya. Well, I love that story. It makes me reminded me of it. And, uh, I always think of Uriah Heep when I hear Uriah and it begins with the Dickens character and David Copperfield. And then of course it became the rock band
Speaker 4 00:30:45 Who is also a nefarious character to
Speaker 3 00:30:47 Me. Yes, that was right. He'd been Dickins was a nefarious character. That's right. And the rock band, I guess, was nefarious too. I don't know, but I used
Speaker 4 00:30:54 People love their music.
Speaker 3 00:30:58 I did. Anyway, we're off track there a little bit, a lot of it probably, um, Randy, let's circle back to the stories. And, um, why don't you tell us why as we roll out of here, um, about the third volume and without giving too much away, um, you told us about the first you gave us a sense for what's going on in the second volume. Um, w what's the big theme of number three?
Speaker 4 00:31:21 The big thing, the name of, of number three is miscegenation. I sh I split it in half. So it's, <inaudible> nation, I'm a session nation means the mixing of the races. Now that was bound to happen because there's not that many people. So if you're going to repopulate, you're all going to have to get mixed up. And that's probably a good thing, but it's a little bit deeper than that in the, in the third book, the groups that that know about each other up to this point in time are starting to gather together and form larger groups. What have you, but there's another segment of society. This a result of the buyers that, that are descendants from, I don't want to go into too much, but they're, they're different. They're different. They're genetically different and not different and physically, but they have th this fires has, jump-started an evolutionary jump to where they can use their minds far better than we can. In other words, they Al they, do. You want me to tell you
Speaker 3 00:32:34 You're teasing us pretty well. That's pretty good. You don't have to give everything away, but Part of this, that this third book is not just a mixing of, of, of the races and the mixing of people. It's the mixing of these people that are, have evolved. Gotcha. Gotcha.
Speaker 4 00:32:52 We're the people that are stuck in the way that we are.
Speaker 3 00:32:56 Gotcha. Nice.
Speaker 4 00:32:58 I mean, um, let me just throw this out at you. Imagine a world where you couldn't lie anymore.
Speaker 3 00:33:05 Wow.
Speaker 4 00:33:07 Wow. How, how would you deal with that? I mean, if you, if you could tell when someone was lying and they could tell if you're lying, that's, that's cool. Right? I mean, yeah. Cause everybody, you know, what about you around somebody who could tell if you were lying, But you couldn't tell if they were lying.
Speaker 3 00:33:24 Yeah. Wow. Okay. Well, you got me interested. I'll tell you that much. Uh, and, uh, I've got to remind our listeners. We are speaking with Randy, Lou Allen, L U a L L I N a author of the trilogy Maroons. First one, first volume, a human epic, second volume of the journey. Third volume coming out later this year, early next year, Ms. <inaudible> nation, Randy, what a pleasure to talk to you again, and for all you listeners, um, this is our second visit. We tend to live with Randy. It was quite an experience. We had a blast, but we wanted to do it one more time for posterity's sake, Randy, what a treat to have you. Yeah,
Speaker 4 00:34:07 It was a, it just went off the fast. So we'd done with already.
Speaker 3 00:34:10 Yeah. Isn't that something we're actually a little over time and the, hopefully I don't think there's, I won't let them cut a, a second of it. These always go so fast for any, it's just amazing. Um, but I'm really glad we got to introduce, uh, people to your good work and to your good stories and to yourself.
Speaker 4 00:34:25 Well, thanks. Thank you, David. And I, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 00:34:30 Absolutely. You've been listening to right on radio speak. I'm Dave FEDEC and we were speaking with Randy, Lou Allen. And now this
Speaker 1 00:35:03 Robert, are you there?
Speaker 5 00:35:05 Yes, I am.
Speaker 1 00:35:06 Cool. Uh, why don't you start by giving us a synopsis of the book, just very brief. And then the reading that you had planned.
Speaker 5 00:35:16 Okay. Um, the world played chess is a coming of age story about a young man named Vincent, who is a currently a father of an 18 year old boy. Who's preparing to go off to college when he receives a journal in the mail. And the journal is from a gentlemen that Vincent worked with in 1979. He was, had graduated from high school and was preparing to leave for college. The gentleman's name was William and William in 1979 was going through PTSD. He's a Vietnam vet. Um, the two guys that way and work that Vincent works with were both Vietnam. Vets. William is going through PTSD and he begins to tear to deteriorate throughout the summer. So the journal is sort of William's explanation of what happened in that summer of 1979. And it's a story of his year long tour in Vietnam. And, um, Vincent uses that experience and what he learned from that experience to help prepare his son to move on to college.
Speaker 1 00:36:21 Oh, okay. Why don't you, uh, do the reading then?
Speaker 5 00:36:25 Sure. And you wanted about three to five minutes.
Speaker 1 00:36:27 Five minutes. Yeah. Three closer to three than five.
Speaker 5 00:36:32 Alright. Sounds good. Prologue. A purpose. I have learned Israeli found, but revealed only when I do not search that the purpose become clear. So it would be with William Goodmans journal. I had no idea why he sent it to me, but his purpose would reveal itself in time William mailed the journal. He kept in Vietnam and a five by eight Manila envelope address simply to Vincenzo without my last name, Bianco scrawled in blue ink, the crude numbers and letters appeared rushed as if William had quickly written the name and my Burlingame address, perhaps word, he might change his mind before he mailed the envelope. He did not provide his name or return address, but I knew the sender. I had not heard that version of my name in nearly 40 years, nor had I seen or spoken with the only person who had routinely used it.
Speaker 5 00:37:25 William's package arrived on a Saturday via regular mail with eight American flag poaches dance in the upper right corner. That caught my attention. I opened the envelope with more than a little curiosity, and I pulled out a rectangular tiger, chewing tobacco tin, the orange and gold leaf scratched in aged and in the four corners. One of which had a dent, displaying flakes of rust. I held the tin like a religious Relic, uncertain what it could possibly contain, or if I wanted to open it. After a moment of contemplation, I popped the lid beneath a folded sheet of paper. The kind ones kept by a telephone to scribble hurried notes and phone numbers. I found a three by five inch black hardcover notebook. The line sheets filled with the same harsh handwriting. As on the envelope, I unfolded the sheet and noted, noted an illustration of a birdhouse with an American flag above the round entry hall.
Speaker 5 00:38:21 Again, it seemed as incongruous with the William. I had known as the patriotic stamps, the note, however, was venture's William humor with a seriousness lurking beneath his work. His words, Vincenzo. Look what I found in a box in my storage closet. I guess it wasn't in the box. I threw out with my medals and ribbons after all say, perhaps I was uncertain what to do with it. My wife has gone now. Cancer took her. She had a daughter from a previous marriage who for all intents and purposes, I raised as my own, but I cannot give this to her. She wouldn't understand it. Just me now, a squad of one, I almost threw it out. Then I thought of you. I thought of that summer, 1979, you asked about Vietnam and you listen, whenever it's did not. You saved me from destroying my life. And you are the reason I found my life. Again. I don't think he knew that I never had the chance to tell you. I should have. I believe we both dreamed of being journalists. I see on the internet, you're a successful lawyer. Dreams are hard to catch on day. I didn't obtain my dream either. Not that one anyway, but I achieved so many others. I never thought possible. I have no regrets. And I certainly won't complain every minute of every day is a gift and growing all the privilege, not a right Lord Williams letter. And we called I'm going to stop there.
Speaker 1 00:39:58 Yeah. Why, why don't we stop there? That seems like a good place to stop. Uh, growing old is a privilege, not a right. That's the big part of this book. One of the themes that runs through it. I want to start though by, uh, talking about, uh, big generalities. Um, I feel at my age and perhaps your age too, we're the last generation that experienced the war as a live thing going on. And I'm wondering, you know, what, how do you feel about that? What that means to you and also why you chose to write about this era?
Speaker 5 00:40:33 Well, I chose to write about the era because, um, you know, I did live through this. Um, I did go to work my senior year in high school. I graduated from high school and that summer I went to work with two Vietnam veterans on a construction crew. And a lot of what, uh, happened that summer is true. Um, I learned a tremendous amount from them. I, I grew up in Burlingame, California in, uh, 1960s, which was in a bubble. It was a bucolic childhood with kids delivering papers on their bikes and we grab our bats and baseballs and we'd go play down at the park. And, you know, there was no crime and everything was wonderful. And then at 18 years of age, I go to work with two, two guys who were still young, you know, they're late twenties, early thirties. And, uh, they experienced something completely and totally different.
Speaker 5 00:41:22 So, um, I remember, um, hearing the news at night and the casualties on the TV screen and for whatever reason, um, probably because of that summer, Vietnam fascinated me and I found myself, you know, I bought, I bought a book by Mark Baker called nom and it first came out in the 19, I think in 1970s, maybe, maybe it's the early eighties. And I bought that book and read it. I still have the first edition here on the shelf. It was on the books I read when I was doing my research. And, you know, I think what you said is very true. Um, it was a war. That one, it was the first war to really come into the American household. It was televised, there was televised, there were reporters embedded with troops and we got to see for the first time young men dying. Um, we weren't, you know, it wasn't the guns of Navarone or the dirty dozen or the war movies that were out there that I used to watch with my dad where the Americans always came home and they were always heroes and everything was wonderful.
Speaker 5 00:42:23 This was reality. And, and young men were dying. They were losing their lives over there. So it was a, it wasn't a time. It was a war that, that, um, a very real war for a lot of Americans, male and female mothers and fathers, um, Housewives, you name it. And, um, it, it, it sorta changed. Uh, it was one of those pivotal moments in, in, you know, us history that, you know, life changed. Um, the protest that that came about after and everything, uh, it was, uh, it was, it was like nine 11. You know, it, it changed, um, it changed the world for a lot of people. Uh, Kennedy's assassination was in 61. There was just a whole, whole bunch of turmoil going on during that period of time. So for me as an author, it was, uh, it was a, uh, a time period that was really rich with potential characters and stories.
Speaker 1 00:43:16 Your characters are quite vivid and especially William, I find him to be very vivid, obviously we're reading his journal. So, uh, it's kind of intense to read the journal. Um, and I read in, uh, the publicity material that some of these characters have a touch of you really at all the characters. And I wonder if you could talk about William as a character and especially PTSD since they didn't know much about that then, and also how it, uh, uh, uh, goes with you.
Speaker 5 00:43:51 Sure. Um, so when I went to work on the construction crew in 1979, there was a gentleman there who I, I called William. And he was a very, when I first started there, he was just very gregarious, outgoing. Uh, he did call me Vicenzo, even though my name is Robert, my middle name is Vincent. And, uh, I, you know, I played softball with him and, and I worked with him and he was a friend of my brother-in-law's. And as the summer progressed, um, it just, it began to, he began to change. Um, you could see it in his physicality. You could see it in his emotional composition. Uh, you could see it in the way he responded things. Um, I can recall a moment in time when he, his El Camino was filled with clothes and I found out he had been kicked out of the house by his girlfriend.
Speaker 5 00:44:38 He drank a lot, he did a lot of drugs. Uh, he clearly, it was a man in pain, but he was also just a great guy. And, you know, it was hard for me to reconcile, um, the distinction between this great guy who was so much fun to be around and play softball with. And this guy that had so many problems, uh, obvious problems, you know, things were, things were difficult and problematic. So when I was, when I was putting the book together, like, like anything, you know, one of the, one of the really beautiful parts about being an author is you get to play the parts. And so, um, I was never given a, uh, Vietnam war journal, um, by this man. And it was actually something that was recommended to me by my son. Who's now 23 years old. He said, you know, I don't know what happened in Vietnam.
Speaker 5 00:45:25 I know about Vietnam, but I don't know what happened on a personal level that the soldiers that were over there. And I think it would be a really interesting to find out what happened to William. So he could understand why he is the way he is in, uh, in 1979. So that required that I go do a lot more research. And as I said, I was always fascinated by Vietnam and I had some books and I went out and bought more and more and more. And I, I just read and read and read. And, and I, you know, I kept reading and I kept watching the movies and I kept watching the documentaries. And I kept talking to a couple of men who had served in Vietnam, who became sort of my, my, um, my baseline on, on making sure things were accurate, where the Marines were located, what Firebase is and all those kinds of things.
Speaker 5 00:46:10 And so then I reached a point where I had to put together wins experience, uh, and I had to put it together in a way that showed the progression of what he went through and the difficulties he went through, which was going to be, uh, symbiotic with the difficulties that he was experiencing in 1979 as his personality began to change. So, you know, we have the character whim is based on a true character, but he's fictional because, you know, his experience in Vietnam was one that, that I was able to make up and using a lot of firsthand accounts, um, from the young men that had served over there and, and found the courage to come back and write about it. And then, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a dad of a, of a son that went off to college and before he went off, he played football.
Speaker 5 00:46:58 And, uh, he was a good football player, a very good football player. And in his, um, in his senior year high school, a young boy young man that he had played with the year before, who was in his freshman year of college, dry died tragically in a, just a tragic accident. And it was really, I think, um, one of those moments that my son will always remember because it's that, it's that same moment of realization that all young people have when we first realized that we're not invulnerable, that, you know, our time on this earth is not guaranteed. Uh, and that is a privilege. It's not a right. And so, um, so a lot of, a lot of the, the basis, the MacGuffin, if you will, were based upon, you know, true story that, that I went through and that my son went through and that we went through together, um, when we, you know, had to go to this young man's funeral, et cetera,
Speaker 1 00:47:54 We're speaking with Robert Ducati about his books, the world played chess. Why don't you tell us a little bit about the title? Where does that come from?
Speaker 5 00:48:04 Yeah, so that's interesting, you know, I, I didn't have a title for, for quite a while. And, um, and I was invited down to Palm Springs by a good friend of mine, Dale Walker. And, um, I was telling Dale, Dale asked me, you know, what I was working on and I was telling Dale, and, and then I got done. Dale said to me, it's like that adage, isn't it. The world played chess while I played checkers. And I said, what do you mean? I've never heard that. And, uh, he said, he's, he said, he goes, there's that adage? You know, the world played chess while I played checkers. Sometimes we're so far removed from the game that we don't even know what game they're playing. And our experience is so different from the experience that they experienced, that, you know, we're not even, we're not even in the same arena.
Speaker 5 00:48:47 We're not even, we're not even the same plate. And, and I, I just thought it was brilliant. It was exactly what the book was about. Um, you know, I couldn't, I couldn't even comprehend what mostly young men, what these, mostly these young men went through when they went through the Bush. I mean, you were one moment. They were 18 years old. They were graduating from high school. And six months later, they were being shipped out to Vietnam to fight a war that they had really no, no beef with the Vietnamese people they had, you know, there was, there was nothing, nothing heroic about going. It was, it was, it wasn't like world war II where we were, you know, fighting the Nazis and things like that. Um, so it was, um, it was, uh, just a really, I thought a really coordinated, uh, adage that Dale told me and, um, my publisher loved it and we were fortunate enough to be able to keep it,
Speaker 1 00:49:40 This book must've been awfully intense, right. The word that comes into my mind because I'm a child of the sixties is heavy, heavy book to write. I couldn't put it down. I finished it at four o'clock in the morning, one morning. Uh, and, uh, it was intense. Uh, and I'm wondering what it was like to write it, how you went through what you went through mentally and emotionally and spiritually to, to, uh, write this book.
Speaker 5 00:50:09 Yeah, it was intense. It was, it was intense when I wrote it and, and I wanted it to be intense because, um, when I read all the firsthand accounts and the, the journals and the books that were written by a lot of these young men, it was very difficult for them to write their experience. Um, most Vietnam vets don't want to talk about their experience. I had, I had several turned me down. They did not want to go back there. And I was fortunate that I had a couple that would, and so, um, I wanted it to be intense because it was an intense experience. It was, it was an, what they went through, you know, every day, um, became intense and they had to deal with it. And so, you know, my hope was that I would, I would, um, provide the reader with sort of an experience that that would, would, would put them on that, on that same edge.
Speaker 5 00:50:59 You know, for me, I learned so much that summer. And then going back to it, you know, made me realize that I think it made me a better, better person, a better father. For instance, I have a much greater appreciation for my children. And, um, and you know, when they go through their experiences, I'm able to, to put them in a, in a, uh, you know, to understand them. So, you know, for instance, we've all gone through a very difficult time with COVID. Um, you know, some people have lost, you know, spouses and parents and siblings and friends, and sort of very difficult time. And I think it's been, uh, and then they couldn't even get a chance to say goodbye and, you know, they couldn't even have a funeral. And that's what these young men went through. These young men lost, you know, they lost friends and, you know, one minute they're standing by them and the next minute they're gone and they never even got the chance to say goodbye.
Speaker 5 00:51:52 They're just gone. And they're told to move on. They got to keep going forward. You know, how did, how does one do that? Is this a very difficult thing to ask of, of us? And so, you know, for me, when, when we were going through the COVID crisis and, you know, it was something that I could, I could really relate to what, what these young men, what William went through in Vietnam. Um, and at the same time, I can remember when I, I talked to one of my, one of my Marine contacts, Bob Mangan, you know, and I was telling him, I feel really bad for my son and my daughter, you know, they had to come home and they're living at home with the parents. They're not enjoying school. They, you know, their friends. And Bob said to me at the time, he said, always remember though, Bob, you're talking about three or four months.
Speaker 5 00:52:40 What we went through in Vietnam was 13 months. And it was every day, every day we saw men, young boys die. And every day we had to deal with, you know, getting up, moving out, moving forward. We had days that we felt like we were doing absolutely nothing. And then one minute, you know, all hell would break loose. So, you know, for me, it was just, it was just sort of very poignant time in, in our current history to be writing the book. And, and there was a great deal of, of emotion for me when I was, you know, pouring through the writing. And it was, um, I did the narration and I didn't do the journal. They, they, uh, hired a, uh, an actor to do the journal. And yeah, it was really glad that they did because, you know, I can do a, I can do a New Jersey accent. I can do do that and everything, but I, you know, I had to do the, the parts where there were William and Vincent are talking in, in the, in the, in the novel. And it was, um, you know, we would get through a scene and I'd have to take a break, you know, I'd have to, I'd have to go outside because it was, it was bad, emotionally difficult at times.
Speaker 1 00:53:46 Talk a little bit more in, well, in the book, I'm trying to decide which thing to talk about here. Let's talk about luck and fate, because that gets more and more important as the book goes along. And, and you have some things in the book to say about lock-in faked.
Speaker 5 00:54:04 Yeah. You know, I can remember sitting in the garage after a day at work, I'm sitting on a white bucket and Jerry would talk, we'd start talking. And, um, and there were things I worked with. I worked with the other gentlemen, um, for longer than a summer, I worked with them for multiple summers and multiple breaks. And he helped really helped me raise enough money to put myself through Stanford. So, you know, a lot of this was things that I learned, not just that summer, but subsequent summers. And what I started to learn was they were, these two gentlemen were very similar. They had, there was a lot of similarities and the similarities were things like they live day to day. They didn't, they didn't think about the feature. Um, you know, they, they, they got paid, they went out, they had a good time with the money that they earned.
Speaker 5 00:54:55 And then they got paid the next week. They went out and they had a good time with money. They earned, um, they didn't believe in God, neither of them. And they both said basically the same type of thing. They said, uh, when I needed, when I needed God, he wasn't there. So I'll get through it on my own, things like that. Um, they, they had sort of this, this, um, temper that could just flare, um, and they were afraid of no one or no, nothing. Um, it's almost as if they didn't care. And it was, uh, you know, the similarities ran, it, ran through them. And I can remember talking to William, you know, in, in that garage. And I can remember him saying to me, you know, you can believe in fate, but it's really just luck, you know, good luck and bad luck.
Speaker 5 00:55:41 And some people have bad luck and you know, why, why am I here? And other people aren't, it's just luck. Um, he didn't see it as, and then the type of, of ordination that he was supposed to go on and do something great with his life or that God had spared him because he was going to do something, you know, brilliant. He just thought as luck. And, you know, you could understand what he was talking about when, when you, you know, when you listened to the stories that he told about Vietnam, you know, um, the guy in front of him was step on a bouncing Betty, and he hadn't stepped on it. William would have stepped on it, or the guy behind him would've stepped on it, you know? And it is that fake. They didn't think so. He said it was just, it was luck. You know, it was just luck, bad luck. Good luck.
Speaker 1 00:56:30 We've been speaking with Robert, do Goni, do Gany we pronounce your last name? <inaudible> about his book. The world played chess. I wish we had more time, but we do not. Uh, I really appreciate your, uh, coming on air and also your flexibility. We had a little bit of a time issue, and I appreciate your flexibility coming on a half hour later than we thought you would come on. And, uh, I really appreciate your honesty. I love the book. It is very intense, but it's very important for those of us who, uh, live through the sixties. And also those of us who didn't learn what that was all about. So thank you very much, Robert. We really appreciate you being on right on radio.
Speaker 5 00:57:15 Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. It's been a privilege.
Speaker 1 00:57:17 Oh, great. Well, it's been a privilege to have you for us too, and we'll let you go. Thanks a lot. And now this
Speaker 2 00:58:05 You are listening to right on radio on cafe 90.3 FM and streaming on the live on the web and caveat.org. I'm Josh Weber. I'd like to thank our special guest tonight, Randy <inaudible> and Robert <inaudible> plus our listeners without your support and donations, caffeine would not be possible. You can find more news and info about right on radio at cafe.org/programs/right on radio. Plus listen to decent episode recent episodes, and they're decent. I think they're all right on our recently launched podcast found on Spotify, iTunes, Google podcast, and anywhere podcasts can be found. Now stay tuned to bone jaw, Minnesota. We got it
Speaker 1 00:58:45 Clean up.
