Speaker 0 00:00:00 You are listening to KFA that's 90.3 FM and live on the
[email protected]. This is Annie Harvey. I am so excited to be here tonight with Jaya Chakrabarti, author of the excellent new novel, um, a play at the end of the world. Welcome to cafe Jai.
Speaker 1 00:00:20 So great to be here with you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 0 00:00:22 Well, thanks. Uh, let's just dive right into talking about the book. Um, could you briefly describe the story for anyone who hasn't got their hands on it yet?
Speaker 1 00:00:32 Sure. I play for the end of the world is a love story. It's also a story about how art can play, uh, has an influence on politics and the shape of our lives. And more specifically, it's about a survivor from the Warsaw ghetto, who travels to India in 1972 to stage a play from his youth. And he's caught between his allegiance to the villagers in India and to the love of his life, uh, Lucy, a woman from the American south.
Speaker 0 00:01:07 So this novel centers on a fictional community, um, Yarik Lucy who have been discussed. Um, but additionally features actual historical figures like yanas cords, Zach and Ravi, and Drena Todd gore and they also play important roles. So could you tell me about how kind of a research process and a fiction process overlapped as you created this story?
Speaker 1 00:01:33 Yeah, so this novel is a work of historical fiction, and I did quite a lot of research in Poland in the 1940s, India, the 1970s and New York as well in the 1970s. And so for Poland, you know, I looked at a number of primary sources, like for example, the diary of Janusz Korczak youngish Korchak was a children's educator. He ran a orphanage with the 200 children and Marsal. And so there was a lot of texts about his life, about how he thought about art, how you thought about community. That was really valuable to me and my research. And of course I spent time in Warsaw tracing and steps if you will. Um, and then there was the research that came about in India and India in the 1970s, late 1960s was a politically very challenging moment for the country. There were, there were a lot of there, there was quite a lot happening in the political arena in India at the time.
Speaker 1 00:02:36 And so that was a wonderful period of research for me to uncover some aspects of my own family history. And how do I, how did I layer sort of the research with the fiction? And, you know, I think about this in terms of, uh, uh, a phrase that was coined by the Robert Beth Boswell called the halftone world, where he talks about providing just enough of the facts so that your reader feels like he's, or she is in the room with you, but that you have enough room to also imagine. And so it's really about finding that right balance between fact and, and imagination.
Speaker 0 00:03:22 Yeah, well, I think that, that felt very evident as I read the book, it was very clear that the, the Warsaw and the, the India and New York all felt very different and very vivid in their own ways. They all had kind of their own energy. So just want to do a plot that quickly. Um, let's talk a little more about Yarik. Um, so it seems, and for those who, again, haven't read the book yet. This was touched on a little at the top, but Yarik, um, is quite literally a Holocaust survivor. He, um, escaped concentration camp. He made it to the United States. Um, and it seems that a lot of his decisions, even now that he has a far more stable life, has a job, has a relationship, has a safe place to live, um, are shaped by his past trauma. And that, that trauma also shapes the way he relates to the other human beings in his life, both romantic and in professional or social contexts. Um, could you tell a little bit about your process of creating and embodying this character?
Speaker 1 00:04:24 Yeah, so you are X character was unlike any that I'd written before in my fiction. And it was a journey for me to really feel like I could live inside of him and tell his story and what I found through my research and through my character development for Yarra. And the other characters in this novel is that there's so many different ways in which we can approach trauma and the way in which <inaudible> great friend approaches, his life is very different. You know, we should have someone who is gregarious, who is celebrating at every opportunity who wants to bring community close together and he wants to, he wants to go back and think about that shared past that they had, he wants to look at the history of what happened in Warsaw Yarik, you know, is very different. He'd rather not think about it at all.
Speaker 1 00:05:22 And he finds great, uh, uh, safety in the regular rhythms of his life. And so when that's disrupted things start to fall apart for him. Um, so, you know, I think for me, one of the most useful writing tips that I discovered was to write in your exploits, even though this novel is told in the third person point of view, I found it to be extremely helpful to write as if I was speaking in the RX place and keeping his journal. So I have, um, a book sized, a journal of just of Yarik talking about his life, you know, and that was, um, deeply helpful for me and getting close to his character.
Speaker 0 00:06:12 Uh, this is, uh, obviously radio is not a visual medium, but I truly classed my hands to my chest. Cause that's like a great idea. That's very sweet tea, embody the character so much that you create a journal for them. And, um, this is a point that I want to expound on and something that I noticed, and that felt very important to me as I read the book. So, um, a lot of the book is it is third person, but it does focus in on specific characters, experiences and specific characters points of view, much of the book is from your ex point of view. Um, also a fair bit of the book is from Lucy's point of view. Um, and it was fascinating to me as an artistic choice that, um, the death of Misha. So basically the family, I guess, like I kind of thought of him as like your ex main friend and your ex main family, the death of Misha was initially announced and the emotions around it were initially discussed during a section that Lucy was leading and that felt really salient to me because it was like, so it's not, Yarik initially unpacking these reactions and these feelings for us in that moment.
Speaker 0 00:07:19 Um, could you tell me a little bit about, um, what that tells us about your extensive self, how Yarik deals with new trauma or new change in the world and why you chose to make that, uh, artistic decision, especially like it's it, especially in this conversation, it feels so clear to me that you could have written it from your ex perspective. You've literally, you've got the receipts, you've got your ex whole diary. You like you're all in. So this was clearly a, a choice was made.
Speaker 1 00:07:49 Yeah. I love the question, firstly, and you know, I think about, um, a book like the great Gatsby, where of Scott Fitzgerald chooses to have Nick caraway as, as our narrator and how that's such an effective choice because we effectively get someone who can tell the story in a way in which we see the various emotional complexities of the other characters, you know, and I think if I were to have tried to do that with, Yarik talking about his experience of losing Misha, I don't think Yarik in that moment would have had access to the layers of emotional strife that he's going through through the, you know, immediate trauma of losing a friend. I don't think he had have had access to that. Whereas Lucy, as, um, someone who deeply loves him and cares for him, I think is going to be able to provide a much more balanced picture for the reader. So that's why I did that.
Speaker 0 00:08:55 That's such a good
Speaker 1 00:08:55 Idea. And I was thinking, as I read, like if, while this is happening to Yarik, he probably can't narrate it to himself very effectively at all. Um, it seems that his dad is the nature of hardship for him. Um, so to kind of jump a continent away from where Lucy is away from New York over to India, um, the sections of this book set in the 1970s, um, place characters and action, um, including Yarik, who's gone over there to restage a play that he did, um, while in hiding as a Jewish child during the Holocaust, um, in India and the real event of the Naxalite insurrection. Um, again, we're in a historical fiction situation here where different characters that you've created that you've breathed life into are experiencing this very real and deeply politicizing, um, deeply politicizing event, like reading this in a time of like relative, relative social discord in the United States, some of the like dialogue around, oh, we think protesters are like wrecking stuff for the sake of it or creating needless violence or if they're, um, reclaiming land for the people or if they're being politically puppeted. Um, how did you take your characters that you were creating and find a political situation or compass for them and where in creating a character, um, did their political leanings fall, like as you were conceptualizing a character? Um, I guess I could say how strongly, how strongly did that factor into how you created a person or was it sort of an afterthought that followed from there, uh, life situation?
Speaker 1 00:10:53 Yeah, so I, you know, I think that place informs character. I think politics informs character, excuse me. And I'm drawn toward fiction that is willing to look at all aspects of characters and how they present themselves to the world. So for me, it's really important that we, one of the practices that I do when I'm writing short stories or, or a novel is I asked my characters a series of questions and some of those questions involve their political leanings, like how they think about political choices that they have made in their lives. And I'm very curious about the VA, the answers that they provide. And it's important for me as a writer to have a sense of who they are politically in this world, what positions they're passionate about or not passionate about. And sometimes that's going to make its way onto the page, you know, if it's appropriate to have it and seeing if it's in service to the novel, but it feels very important to me as a writer to have that sense of who the character is to not forget about the, their, their political role in this world.
Speaker 0 00:12:02 Yeah. While we're on the topic of the time you spend with your characters and the way you kind of converse with them, even outside the role of the novel, um, where in your writing process, does this typically land like as an I do at first, isn't it? And I do it every week or every day or when you need to process something.
Speaker 1 00:12:23 Yeah. I typically start out my writing practice by writing in the voice of one of my characters. So, you know, if I'm working on Lucy's chapter, I would start out writing in Lucy's terminal and you know, that I have, um, I'll start out typically by doing the free-write and Lucy's voice. And then I have a list of questions and I sometimes go back to, um, if I'm feeling like I want to wear a particular area, but it's, it's the thing that I do, you know, pretty typically to start a writing practice, because it makes me feel like I'm a little bit closer to the character and more open to surprise. I want my characters to surprise me on the page. You know, I'm not writing at least in the first draft as an outline. So, you know, I'm very excited by what they're going to do, and that gets me closer to that possibility.
Speaker 0 00:13:14 Yeah. Um, no worries. If you don't have an answer prepared for this, but is there something that Springs to mind that was a very exciting realization about one of your characters that you didn't necessarily anticipate in like an outlining or broader phase that they kind of told you? It's okay. If you don't have an example, I'm just curious. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:13:40 Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, there, there are various minor characters in this novel, like Mrs. Paul, and it used to be the case that some of them had much more major roles and Mrs. Paul in particular, you know, um, I learned so much about her as a character and about her backstory and her lead relationship with her husband. And, you know, I feel like those learnings are things that I might take on maybe to a future story or a future novels. I feel like with each of the characters, whether they make it onto the main stage or not, like I have a lot of material that I then, uh, shape into future work. Cool.
Speaker 0 00:14:25 Um, so let's steer back a little bit to talking a little more about, uh, Yarik X brain, something that I love to talk about, um, w in go popper India in that kind of segment of the book where Yarik is over working on the play, uh, spending time with the community, um, he bonds with a local child named Neil. Um, they spend time together, they teach each other things. Neil teaches Yarik some local stuff Yarik provides kind of a big brother support, um, vibe to him. Um, and it kind of felt to me, as I read, like, um, Yarik was trying to provide to Neil what Misha had provided to him, especially as a lot of the male role models in Neil's life were getting taken away by the conflict in the area. Um, but Yarik was also with everything. There was an opportunity cost Urich was spending this time with Neil, um, at the cost of going back to the United States, um, to spend time with, uh, Lucy who was pregnant with his child at the time. Um, do you think that Yarik has either consciously or unconsciously hiding from inner intimacy or fearing failure, or do you think just his need to connect in that like familial sense and more of like a, um, sibling type way or fatherly type way more imminently felt more important?
Speaker 1 00:15:58 Well, I think both things are true, so I think he is hiding from intimacy. I think he has a deep fear of intimacy with Lucy of falling completely in love. And I think it's also true as a real connection to Neil and to the village and feels like the work that he is doing there is meaningful. So, you know, I, I appreciated that it's, it's, it's a real tension for him that he's not just hiding from his intimacy, but that, you know, he also feels like, you know, in service to this greater good in service to this village,
Speaker 0 00:16:38 Uh, for anyone who's just joining us, we're speaking with, uh, Josh Chakrabarti, author of play at the end of the world, um, to dig a little into the role of art in this book, which is always a fun thing to talk about the role of writing within writing the role of art within art. Um, the play at the center of the book, um, that is the central thread of the book co uh, connecting Poland and India connecting. Um, Eric's childhood to his adulthood, um, is seen by various people in the book. Like it keeps getting this play, keeps getting performed in these really, really high stakes environments and situations. Um, at various times it's seen as a valuable way to prepare children for the concept of mortality. It's seen as a way to build hope for the future in a time of, uh, upset and uncertainty.
Speaker 0 00:17:28 Um, it's seen as an object of academic study, um, for Yarik, it seems like a way to, um, take his experiences and build them into something, something meaningful to build them into something that creates a more positive present and future. Um, but towards the end of the book, um, there are ways in which the revolutionary value of the play is called into question, um, kind of the motives of the performance of it called into question and the idealism of those performing it. Um, as you also a writer created this story, um, did you mean to use the play as a discussion about the value and limits of art, or does it have a more straightforward role of an object? Many people can, can reflect and project their own meaning on, and of course this is an a, you can do an oral or an aunt.
Speaker 1 00:18:20 Yeah, it would've been a great question. And just for folks who may not be aware of this particular play dot core translated as the post office was written by rubbing than obstacle, or in 1912, it was, it's been translated into many languages and performed in many critical moments in our history. So it was performed in Paris the night before the city fell to the Germans. And then of course, as it relates to this book, it was performed in Warsaw in 1942 weeks before deputations. So the play in the historical record has so many different meanings, you know, as it does in this book, right. It is not seen in one way and are in sort of our history of, of that particular piece of performance. Um, and I was really influenced by researching street art and street theater in India in the 1970s. So there've been a number of notable playwrights from that era that, uh, stuffed our Hashmi, for example, who was a communist playwright and performed plays in the streets of new Delhi.
Speaker 1 00:19:35 So he was always kind of risking this line between art as a vehicle for political change, but also art as something that could incite violence. You know, those were, uh, you know, those were things that were perennially together in the work of subdue Rashmi, you know, and I think that I w so I wanted to explore all of this, you know, I wanted to explore this play that can bring a community together that can uplift and heal, but also this play that can be performed with politically fraught, uh, connotations and can be quite challenging for the community. When we think about it's after effects,
Speaker 0 00:20:20 I'll say with historical fiction, this was a really, really excellent place to insert some of the history like, um, while reading this, of course I was occasions Googling names or things like that to see what was, what fell on which side of the historical fiction line, and, uh, the idea to incorporate a play with this, these already grand, um, historical implications, and to bring it further as such a great way to kind of, um, piece apart and look at, um, what a play can really do across many different situations and in many different hands. Um, we're almost to the end of our time, and I really, really appreciate having you here. This has been so much fun. Um, is there anything you're working on right now that you're excited about or want to shout out? Um, if not, that's okay, but, um, we're always excited to see what you do with, I'd love to have you back sometime.
Speaker 1 00:21:10 Yeah. I'm working on a collection of short stories that kind-of, we'll be publishing in 2023. And, um, it's been such a pleasure speaking with you today, and for any readers who have feedback, I love connecting with readers. So feel free to reach out.
Speaker 0 00:21:26 Thank you so much. Um, for everyone listening at home, uh, this is cafe 90.3 FM, and live on the
[email protected]. We've been speaking to jive Chakrabarti. Um, his novel, a play at the end of the world is out now. It's been excellent speaking with you. Take care, have a good night.
Speaker 1 00:21:42 Take care. Bye.
