Speaker 0 00:00:01 <inaudible> you were listening to right on radio on caffeine, 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Josh Weber. And tonight on Breitbart radio, Liz old's talks with Noel <inaudible> is a law degree from the university of Texas and has also studied at King's college in London and the Royal academy of dramatic arts. Currently, he lives in Northern California with his family and works as a senior public utilities counsel for the state of California. He's not a soccer fan as a documentary film enthusiast and Mandy Harvey. And the last part of the hour, Ian Graham, Lisa talks with bill Stravinsky about his memoir, Kara under fire Stravinsky to tells his time as a combat medic and the Vietnam war trusting the reader squarely into moments of terror during firefights, the exhaustion of endless patrols and the anguish of losing friends and the intimate bonds created during times of desperate need all this and more. So stay tuned to right on radio there. Yes, I am. Oh, great.
Speaker 1 00:02:15 Great. This is a no of no OBR uh, and he is the author of a past that breeze. Welcome. Um, why don't we start with, uh, uh, intro to the book and do you have a reading prepared?
Speaker 2 00:02:33 I do. Um,
Speaker 1 00:02:35 Okay. Why don't you tell us about the book and then do the reading?
Speaker 2 00:02:40 Sure. Um, the book is a murder mystery, um, about the young woman who was, who died in her apartment in Los Angeles. And, uh, the police bring the case to trial. And the two lawyers who are trying the mother mystery, train their murder cases for the first time and have a suit, you know, romantic interest in each other. So they're struggling with the social system at the time, which was during the audit trial, the modern history in front of them and the relationship they're supposed to have with each other. Just trying to find harmony in both, um, in the midst of the racial and political patients of Los Angeles, doing the audit trial while trying to solve a racially sensitive murder mystery. Um, that's engaging to the end.
Speaker 2 00:03:27 So, um, let me, let me read, I'm studying on page 72, let me read a piece of it for you. Great. Any had hoped to still into a corner of the club with a glass of vodka mixed with grapefruit juice and ice and observed the scene. The only other Caucasian that any could see besides herself, Anita was the early bartender with the baby face and peak brown hair needed to cough her jacket and approach the bartender. And we looked around trying to smile without looking directly at the man. Her eyes met some of the woman gauges, and though she could not make out the expressions. She felt judged as if she had trespassed into one of the few places left for them to be themselves, without someone like her, being there to judge them. Many of the women wore tight dresses to little Hills, some black pantyhose behavior, the women, the higher the heels and the tighter the dress is it seemed if you wore jeans, blue skirts and t-shirts the flower pattern dress or a white pants that must have seemed elegant at the wedding for which it was perfectly purchased.
Speaker 2 00:04:36 Most of the men think tall and big boons in tight fitting t-shirts over broad chest, some bludgeoned biceps, but always the jacket it's taller and bigger men seem to prefer baggy pants with this is what will he be? The button, the, that Nita Amy was standing tightly behind neither of the button. This book, when she noticed someone's hand come over her shoulder from behind and rest on it. As he tried to turn aspect in demand had mistakenly rested his hand on her, the hand squeeze to shoulder froze. I showed the sign to talk to her ears and her spine stiffened to the audacity of a familiarity. She could not imagine having with anyone in this club and she hurts. You force any Wilson. What on earth are you doing here? Neither turns before any code within green on the verge of laughter inhaled nature. So just Kneaders shoulders and turns her back around to feed the button that then Amy turned to see Kenneth in a white shirt and black sludge looking as young as she remembered him six years prior, his smile fixed on his face, his eyes on hers.
Speaker 2 00:05:45 He said it was neatly low called Kenneth. And he said, but Nita quickly interrupted her. What would you like to drink? Neither ask a Greyhound connect said not you. Her later said pointing to Amy. I'm telling you what she would like Amy nodded to Nita and transfer around the game before NEDA could say another word, excuse me, the ghost up. Can it prong? What brings you to life? Can not answer, not with words, the gifts that each other briefly, the name drift the bartender retreated would need an audit. I need a turned around to take Canada and Amy, and that's where I stopped reading.
Speaker 1 00:06:25 Great, thanks. Uh, this isn't no OBR era and his book is a past that breeze, the murder mystery set in Los Angeles during the, uh, uh, peoples about Rodney king and OJ Simpson. Uh, but first I want to talk a little about, about your, uh, life, uh, history. Uh, talk about coming to America at age 17 from Nigeria, you must have had a lot of feelings about the differences between Nigeria and the United States. Why don't you talk about your experiences?
Speaker 2 00:07:01 Sure. Um, yeah, I initially came here for college. I mean, it, you have to high school. I was shipped over to the United States to go to college in Connecticut and, um, I was 17 at the time and all I knew about the United States of course, were, you know, the pop, pop culture, the music, the movies, um, a few of the books being, being raised in a British colony. Um, well, I didn't quite know anything much else about, um, life in the United States. You know, it's just what you see in the media, the new movies and the music is what we knew. So coming to the U S and then coming to Connecticut, not having experienced snow before, um, was, was my first experience. Um, I think what happens then is, you know, being, being, uh, one the forerunner, and secondly, seeing that you here for a purpose and you leave him, you know, you're just here to stay because my objective was primarily to go to college and go back to Nigeria.
Speaker 2 00:08:03 Um, you one tends to see themselves as removed from the social issues and, and not, you know, not really a part of it. Um, you know, acknowledging they exist and knowing they exist, I'm feeling, being, being exposed to it, but feeling like you're just in translation, you're going to leave, um, you know, eventually, um, and then there's, there's the, there's the pressure to assimilate, um, in the, in the larger culture that you, that you've come into. And, um, while being part of the, you know, the smaller culture that that's in it. And so all that, um, was what I, I grew up with in Connecticut, in, in my late teens. Um, but after a few years in the U S um, it was a cool enough consequence in Nigeria. And I went on to law school and ended up staying and through the process of staying and experiencing being black in America, I think I began to, um, experience and see a lot of the social issues that inspired this book.
Speaker 2 00:09:13 Um, I think I w I actually think that the beanie Los Angeles, during the Rodney king period, it was, it was a period not on like, you know, the past year that we've seen, or the past few years that we've seen, uh, there was Rodney king, there was Latasha Harlins, there were all those, and then there was the riots, and then there also just censored. Um, I think that period really educated me, or, you know, um, made me understand myself in the society more than anything. And that was the period. Um, I tried to capture in this book. Um,
Speaker 1 00:09:46 Now you went to law school in Texas, correct. And you, um, worked as a lawyer in Los Angeles for a while, and I'm wondering, uh, you spoke about it a little bit, but I'm wondering what kind of racism and, uh, in equality, did you experience, uh, both in Texas and then as you were working in the LA court system?
Speaker 2 00:10:16 Um, so in, in texts that I was mostly immersed in school, like, you know, I, I barely left the, I barely left the 48 conference or the investor of the system. Um, so I wasn't really exposed much to eight in Texas. Um, I mean, in the sense that I was invisible, um, to some, um, um, that that may have been money reflected in, in my state there, but I didn't experience any so much overtly, um, in school, in school there. And, um, um, in the court, in the court system, in Los Angeles, it was deep, it was different. It was an eye opener. As I mentioned, I came here at 17 and, um, when I would go to court, um, representing, you know, in criminal cases, usually when you go to a trial or when you go to a hearing the, they do the arraignments, you know, they bring in the people who need to plead in, or who've already settled their cases or play their cases.
Speaker 2 00:11:16 And they bring them in and they take the pleas. And under, before they go into the motions and I would recourse it in there as a young man and wandering, and just watching this, um, young man, um, very young lens, just much in and out on issues that, um, that made, made me often wonder how in the world I escaped the state, you know, how, how did, how did I, how was I not marching to one of these? Because I'm just talking to a policeman, anyhow, could result in an insubordination that will bring you into a misdemeanor that will give you a record, that the next time you have a case, um, that becomes a record that makes you next case really much worse. And, um, and so I saw that a lot. I saw that in, in how the officers investigated my cases in, in, um, in my, in my interaction with the police officers. Um, you know, but I was careful not to, well, not careful, careful doesn't begin to explain it, but I was cautious not to, um, let that escalate into anything more for myself. And oftentimes when they find out I'm a lawyer, they give me my space.
Speaker 1 00:12:29 And I'm wondering, uh, if the case in, uh, past that breeze is, um, based on a case that you are aware of, or did it come completely from your mind?
Speaker 2 00:12:43 Yeah, the case itself, the, the, the particular plot of finding this woman, um, you know, sort of, uh, dead, and then the mother mystery around the case itself was, came from all in my mind. Um, but everything around it, every the processes, the emotions that were held in court, the issues around the contracts, everything that happened in that court came from my, came from my practice. I, I would say that I have, I have done 95% of the things that the lawyers did in that court with, with specificity specifically to even the way they did it. Um, um, even the way that argued some of the cases where it came from my trials. And I just found a way to, um, bring them together in, in this particular, in this particular one, um, plot,
Speaker 1 00:13:36 Uh, the book includes the difficulties faced by, uh, two lawyers, uh, who are becoming an interracial couple. They have not really decided or figured that out yet. Is that something that you either experienced yourself or you knew people who were dealing with it, and also they're on opposite sides of a very serious a case that has a lot of tension. And it's just a very interesting, uh, con conflation of things. And I'm wondering if you have known people who've gone through that, or if, perhaps you even went through it yourself?
Speaker 2 00:14:12 Um, no, I wouldn't. I haven't gone well. In terms of the, um, being involved with a lawyer on the, on the opposite side. No, I haven't gone through it myself. Um, in terms of the interracial relationships and the trust influences that come into it, I I've known people who've been through it. Um, I think, yeah, I think what I was really trying to capture that is how our lives are not isolated from the TCS. We try, you know, how, um, the, how, how the influences that we wake up with the, the effects that we're the thing that we're dealing with socially, um, are have specific ramifications in, in vacations. We try, you know, you, you, you give given this responsibility as is, you know, so, um, well pointed out of it very important monitor trail, and you're also struggling with the resource. If you don't have to fight it and the limits of your own, um, experience to do it, but more than all those things, more than the resources, the limits of your experience, the hard work, your opportunity, that what could really throw that taste off would be what side of the bed you will wake up on, because at the end of the day, it is your mind, your person, your physical person, and your health that has to be intact in order for you to go into the courtroom and do a good job.
Speaker 2 00:15:35 It is still, it is still in a sense of performance that you have to be healthy to put up. And, um, and in this relationship, um, things happen, you know, things happen where you, one day, if you have the right mind, you know, you, one day, you know, the things that distracting you from what you to people want, they are distracting you from what you're supposed to be focused on. Um, on, on that issue, also the particular case decided to deal with the case decided where they, the, the court pointed out what two lawyers on opposite sides of the criminal case should do if they are feeding each other. That case is an act, an actual case. It's actually a case called people, be Jackson in California. And I researched it and I used it in this proceeding. So that, that's an actual thing that has happened in, in case in case law and the courts have pretty much laid out how to lawyers involved in that type of situation should address it. Well, I was more coming out of, um, I was mostly coming from the point of, um, this notion that, um, we, we bring our lives into the things, um, and the roles we play, um, whether, whether it's in law or whether it's police work or whether think it's in the office, um, uh, uh, lives influence, influence, influence what we do. And oftentimes when, when that life is, you know, um, hammered with, uh, social issues and, and, and injustices, it's, it adds a whole lot more stress to it than, than, um, if it didn't. So
Speaker 1 00:17:18 How old were you during the, uh, OJ Simpson trial? And, um, um, how did it affect you in thinking about law inequalities, different kinds of things that, uh, uh, and were you living in the U S or Nigeria?
Speaker 2 00:17:40 Uh, during the August trial? Yes. Oh, I was a lawyer in Los Angeles. That's, that's where, that's what motivated. That was one of the inspiration for the, for the, um, I was a lawyer and practicing in Los Angeles at the time I was, uh, probably 26 to print six to seven. I don't know. I tend to do much, quickly, much head. Um, yeah. And, and I just started my practice, uh, shortly after law school and was really struggling with, um, uh, we said, we'd get me a topic ground. And, and, um, most of my client couldn't afford, um, their attorney's fees. Um, and most of, a lot of them were facing a lot of, um, issues in, in courts that needed, um, that probably shouldn't have been put against them in that way. And, yeah, so that, that was my experience. I, I think what's what frustrated me in that period was just the complete focus on the OJ Simpson trial and how, you know, it just dominated everything around me.
Speaker 2 00:18:47 Meanwhile, there were some real lives and real issues that were going on with people who, you know, can't afford the dream team. Um, but I, and an assistant that doesn't really give them that deal. And, um, nobody's seen BP seems like, you know, the media wasn't really too interested in that. And, uh, yeah, I was in Los Angeles. I was practicing law. And, um, a lot of the, a lot of the things in the book in terms of the interaction between the lawyers, um, in terms of the issues in some of the issues in the case came from my practicing that period.
Speaker 1 00:19:26 How would you like your book to enter or perhaps spark conversations about racial inequality and injustice and the black lives matter movement, but what kinds of things would you like your book to bring out in those situations?
Speaker 2 00:19:45 Oh, thank you for that. Um, I would, I would want the book to, uh, keep a path of discussion open, always make us understand, um, that, um, the differences we have is often not that we can learn from each other, so to speak. I don't want to, I don't want to infer eat, ignore anything one way or in one on one side or the other, so that we can learn from each other. We, we open, um, it, lots of differences, uh, come from differences of interpretation, a lock, a lack of, um, some depth of knowledge as to the issues the other side is facing, which of course you don't know as much as, um, beside that experiencing it. Um, I would like, I would like to, I would like it to, I would like the book to be say that, um, we can find some form of harmony in the midst of racial and politically divisive patients, uh, regardless of what the issue is between us in front of us.
Speaker 2 00:20:45 And, um, and, and frankly, what the kids in the black lives matter movement I've been doing, um, has been encouraging. I mean, that, that they've found the, the strength to stand up and speak and, and, and essentially assert that insist on being heard is something that really wasn't there. Um, in the 1990s, when the riots in Los Angeles happened, you know, um, granted social media has helped their efforts to, uh, associate them can come together. But, um, I find what they're doing, frankly impressive. And you find that in, in being able to speak that way, they are, they are able to reach more people of different backgrounds and diversity who shared their opinions and, and believe in their cause to come together and fight for it. I would hope that my book is trying to pay that if you would see in the two characters that at some point, even though they don't agree on, on what, on the OJ Simpson case itself, or at some point, if they don't agree, one says to me, please don't tell me, OJ is for that. And the other one says, yes, I will tell you that. And they have this discussion about why they disagree. And it's not that they disagree on the fundamental wrong of the racial injustice, but it's often the interpretation of what that room of how that room is being received. And I think that's what we need to stop first and acknowledge the wrong, um, rather than always say, okay, yeah, it's wrong. But about what that means, take the parts aside. Let's talk about the wrong, because that's at the heart of what's causing these issues.
Speaker 1 00:22:32 Uh, I'm curious if you, um, if you are watching the Olympics, I'm curious how you, uh, feel about the, um, um, she's not discus shot, put the, a young shot, put a player who won the silver medal and protested, uh, by crossing her arms over her head during the, uh, Anthem and, uh, talked about intersectionality as being, uh, is something that was important to her. Are you familiar with that or do you have a feeling about that?
Speaker 2 00:23:09 Um, um, I, you know, I, I wasn't, I didn't watch that, but I've heard of it. Um, and, um, and I do have a feeling about that. I, you know, it wasn't that long ago that, um, Colin carbonate in, in the 49ers down to protest, um, the anthems, I would like to see, I would like to hope that we've learned from, from the reactions that people have to call him, um, to be able to, um, I've said this young woman's expression of abuse under the, under the circumstances, I don't think takes away from the national Anthem per se. Um, but you know, we, one would have to really walk in her shoes to be able to appreciate what led, what, you know, knowing, knowing fully well that she is going to be a captain and mentally well that she's going to come under these prejudices.
Speaker 2 00:24:04 And then, and I still feeling like this was something she needed to do. Um, I think it's something I would, I would rather respect than, than criticize. Um, and I, I think, you know, despite everything that went with Colin nilly and doing the, during the national Anthem, um, we have now I'm a huge soccer fan. And every, before every European premier league soccer game, um, declared kneel down, they don't do it during the national Anthem, but the kneel down to acknowledge, um, called to, to push for, uh, racial unity. And it's something that I think, um, they wanted to do in response to the treatment or calling God. And I hope that we don't go the way, the way, um, a lot of people went when carbonated, uh, with this young woman, when companies started milling down, we don't have to agree with it, but one has to respect, um, what she's come through and, and what she's trying to express.
Speaker 1 00:25:04 Yes. Thank you for that. Um, uh, we don't have a whole lot of time left. Um, I'm wondering, what is next for you in terms of your writing? Are you going to write another mystery or,
Speaker 2 00:25:22 Um, I, I will talk, that's another mystery in my, in my teachable. I've always come to the right and, um, not in terms of the genres, but in terms of, um, things that really moved me and inspired me and things that make me, um, make me want to put the discussion out there, make me want to, um, tell a story that that makes equal thing, and that makes people understand the word. It would have been able to experience. It would have been able to come from in a way that they may not have understood it, um, from my perspective before. So I, I do hope, I do think there's another word of ministry, uh, in my future, but I don't think it's what I'm going to do next. Um, I, I do, uh, yeah, I'd like to try, try out hand for other narratives. And, um, before that,
Speaker 1 00:26:15 Well, thank you so much for out of time. I wish we had more time. I had many questions written down here to ask you, but time flies when you're having fun. So we've been speaking with a no of the Yarra author of a past that breeze. And, uh, thank you very much for your thoughtful answers and we appreciate you being on right on radio.
Speaker 2 00:26:38 Thank you so much. Thanks for having
Speaker 1 00:26:40 Me. You bet. Have a good night.
Speaker 3 00:27:02 Why is it so hot? Does it ever stop raining? How many days left in the country? Will I be brave? Well, they're make mom and dad proud. Are we really Patriots? Lord don't let me fall asleep on my watch. Lord. Don't let me screw up by the firefights seemed like organized chaos and lots of noise. Did someone yell medic where's my morphine pack where the hell is that? Dust-off my, our night industrial controls full of chairs, frequent maintenance. Remember to pull the pin before you throw the 52 bombs? Sure. Make big holes in the second chest really does suck. Thank God for petroleum claws, battled beverages that came to sutures. The baseball stitch was my favorite. Well, my training didn't prepare me for this once. A blue Spader, always a blue Spader duty. First, starting through my experiences during the tour of Vietnam tour of duty, I prepared a list of expressions about all of which will be immediately recognized by those.
Speaker 3 00:28:24 We serve each reference, communicate some aspect of my story in concise terms covering 366 days in the combat. So these declarations run the gauntlet of my experiences and summarize my feelings as they say, I survived my time in hell. I gathered wisdom and learned to understand what it means to be courageous. I felt the burdensome pain worry and full effects of hearty. I did has experienced things that most adults can't begin to envision. Perhaps there should be. Wow, it's very moving. Um, you were listening to bill Stravinsky, reading from his memoir, uh, Vietnam on the fire. There was born in 1946 and grew up on the east side of St. Paul in Minnesota. He served in the U S army in 67 to 1969 upon his own. This jocks Stravinsky returned to college. The degree in political science, 72, he was appointed by the governor to the position of deputy and eventually the commissioner of the state department of administration. In 1990, he left state government to establish his own government relations consulting firm, and still continues to represent clients in the state government as a state government lobbyist Stravinsky has trained as a combat medic in the army, which is what this book is about, where he has numerous awards, including three bronze stars for valor and the combat medical batch. Thanks for doing that.
Speaker 3 00:30:17 He resides with his wife, uh, Costin in Scandia, Minnesota. Welcome to Ronald Reagan. Thank you. Happy to be here to share my story. So well-read thank you. That moved me quite a bit, as you can probably tell. Yeah, it's an important expressions of that. The really dig to the soul of what it's like to serve service story of combat and all the various aspects and things you deal with and have to deal with and deal with them for the rest of your life. Now, amongst some of the things that you've kind of listed to me as it will feel important to you. Um, part of writing this book, you know, <inaudible> is why they wrote a book. The here you, you started off apparently with a speech that he gave to the Minnesota ambulance association. He MTS paramedics, tell us how that related and how they caught this whole process.
Speaker 3 00:31:13 Moving very interesting circumstance actually. Um, I spent the last 49 years of my life in government activities, uh, working for government early in my career. And then later on as a government affairs consultant lobbyist, um, a few years back, I was asked by the Minnesota ambulance association to speech to be the keynote speaker during their stars of life awards, banquet, that banquet is once a year, they recognize the MTS and paramedics throughout the state for life-saving activities. I initially thought they wanted me to talk about how they worked at the Capitol. He said, no, we want you to talk about your experiences as a combat medic. We heard that about you. I said, let me think about that for awhile. Well thought about it for a couple of weeks. And I said to myself, if anybody understands my experiences and what it's like to have to make some tough calls and some decisions, it's those people, the EMT is the paramedics.
Speaker 3 00:32:14 They deal with this stuff all the time. They deal with Hardy. And so I agreed to do that. And through that process, uh, I spent a fair amount of time putting my thoughts on paper so I could deliver a speech. And, uh, and so I had a lot of materials prepared. Interestingly enough, that day I gave my speech and I, and I, it was, you could have heard a pin drop that was amazed besides they related directly to what I was doing. I related directly to what they do every day. And at the end of my speech, I got a standing ovation and they said, welcome home. And they gave me one of the life saving awards and it just brought tears to my eyes. Very powerful moment. Wow. So then I went back and I started thinking about that if it moved that group and it was good therapy, she would write the speech and to present this information, to tell my story, after all of these years, there's a part of it.
Speaker 3 00:33:11 Uh, I decided that might as well put it together. It put a book together, uh, and continue to get my story up there. I believe those are really important that the young people today need to understand our history about that. But most importantly, I want to address my family and their family. You want to know who, who I really am, how I became, who I am today. Let me share with you my early perspective. How'd you how'd, you kept some of that information from your family for one. It was, um, that's a good question. Again, it's typically the issues never come up. You know, they know that their grandpa was in the service and those in the army, and there was a Vietnam war and that's about it before hesitant to bring that stuff up, I think, but more important, more and more today. Uh, there's more legitimacy about discussing some of these things because so many of us suppressed these comments and thoughts for many, many, many years, it was not a good time to come back to America in 1969 and from a combat zone to an angry Republic.
Speaker 3 00:34:17 That was very interesting because antagonistic against the war Vietnam. Um, so that was really hard to do. So we suppressed a lot of those feelings and our conversations and our thinking for many, many years. And you've asked any Vietnam veteran that tell you the same thing. We were not welcomed home, so why go there? And so, um, I think that's, uh, that's kind of why not now after the experiences we have with the modern military in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the welcome home that these people got, uh, and, and remembering how good a job they did, and we're thankful for their service to protect America, to keep America free. Uh, it really paved the way and made it easier for us Vietnam veterans to now start talking about our stories and sharing that information. It was it's as powerful today. More and more people generally are interested in what happened with that.
Speaker 3 00:35:10 I'm getting deja VU, because I almost have exactly the same conversation with a couple of other Vietnam vets, Tim O'Brien and Cole Melinta soup sat in that seat and talked to me about these same things and both of them, good friends of the show. And, um, you know, it's all very emotional for both of them tied back. I to various levels of PTSD. Has, did you? Yeah. I suffer from PTSD and I as do a lot of BMTs paramedics, nurses and doctors who are on the frontline today doing a lot of the same kind of traumatic things, her, um, but I do, I have recollections, I think about things that I did every day. I think about three people I treated, I think about, did I do the right thing? Could I have done more? You're still doing that, still doing that. And so those remorse there, I've reconciled all of that and certainly in my heart and my mind.
Speaker 3 00:36:03 Um, but it's still there in, in, uh, um, interesting enough, a lot of older veterans who were Vietnam veterans are now at home, according to the VA, um, in my own research, they said at home, they've already raised a family. They've worked their entire life. They've been very, very busy now they're retired and now they're reflecting upon their experiences. They were just serving the service in the Vietnam era, perhaps. And there's a lot of heartache there. They've never processed this material is information that things they observed or went through. And this 23 suicides a day <inaudible>, and many of those are older veterans who should have processed this stuff years ago. I've gotten a lot of feedback from my book, emails and letters from people who say the same thing that thank you. We should have processed it. I was fortunate to process some of my issues with the group of friends who were Vietnam veterans as well, uh, over the last 50 years.
Speaker 3 00:37:04 But so that's been helpful in my case, but yeah, it's a lot to go through. Do you think having been trained, um, as a doc Z as he recalled in the platoon, was that in any way, an eight to recovery already? I mean, having had that training about how to heal and did it, that it creates some kind of advantage for you in the healing process? That's a very interesting question. I hadn't never thought about it quite that way. Um, I can't say that my training prepared me for that, but the characteristics of a medic, if you look at the modern websites for the us army will tell you that the medics are typically people who are empathetic. They, uh, they can make decisions, they can think and analyze circumstances and they're risk takers. Maybe it's the empathy side of all of that, that does help.
Speaker 3 00:38:00 Some of that need some self sympathy. Yep. Yeah. I had 10 weeks of training and as a combat medic and I went to Vietnam and I was assigned to immediately to the infantry. I never got out of the field and I never saw a hospital. My entire tour of duty in Vietnam. My job was to go on patrol, to take care of those souls from the soldiers in my charge and try and save their lives when the bad things happen. Well, it's a terrific situation, a new ride about this with a lot of empathy and care. And of course, this is nonfiction. This is under, we've seen people like Tim, O'Brien write about this in a fictional way. He's been on the show, a number of times it's going off the catchy off. As soon as I carried in the lake of the woods and other stories where he really brings a life in a really terrible situations, which talk about almost exactly the same way realistically.
Speaker 3 00:39:04 And, uh, I just can't imagine having to wake up in the morning and thinking now, I, I never had to have that experience. So I was lucky. Yeah. Um, well, I, I have everything in perspective in my life and particularly with my experiences as a young man. Um, but it is something that can we can't escape. Uh, I think it's interesting that the, uh, in, in war, there are no one wounded soldiers and it is a war. You deal with things forever. I was told that I had to get two years of my life. Don't uncle Sam. I was drafted late 1966. So I had to give them two years. Well, that was not true. I've been given uncle Sam, my, my soul, my thinking for over 52 years. And that's the tough part about it, but because so many older wounded veterans PTSD, other disabilities, there's a lot of us out there.
Speaker 3 00:40:00 Um, we're still still dealing with these same kinds of things. At least the government now recognizes that and is providing some kind of assistance it's important for any kind of situation you might think you have today in the same true for a lot of military. So, um, fruits was all, this is the in ground lease care and I'm interviewing bill, students give out his book cat on the fire. Um, so with that in mind, um, is there some advice you would give to younger soldiers, uh, people that are, you know, recently been in Afghanistan and places like that is, is it changed the same thing? Yeah, that's a good question as well. I thought about that a little bit. When I met with, uh, Lieutenant Colonel Starz, who's the current battalion commander, 26 infantry regimen, which I served with in Vietnam many years ago. My first battalion commander was Alexander HIG by the way.
Speaker 3 00:40:56 Wow. He went on to become somebody important in the military and certainly the, our country. So, um, but I was talking to him about that Lieutenant Colonel stars, uh, just last fall when I was at Fort Campbell, Kentucky doing a little speaking about this book. And, um, we just, uh, I said, journalists, I cannot relate to the technology you have today. I can not relate to the whip analogy. I can not relate to the strategies you deploy. Um, but I can relate to the heartache and the difficulty of making decisions, particularly decisions that will impact you as a leader of the, of the, for the defense, the battalion and all your soldiers in your charge, those particular experience combat. Um, I could relate to all of that. And then that was the common bond that certainly minds all military soldiers and sailors and everybody else in the military.
Speaker 3 00:41:48 And my understanding is that the survival rate now is changed dramatically. Let's call him. Yeah. Um, it is much higher today. Um, they primarily because they wear body armor and they're not doing the same kinds of patrols that we do on, in the same kinds of hostile territory. So it's very dangerous to go into Fallujah, for example, and then you go house to house searches. Um, they're better protected that way with the equipment. Um, we didn't have that. And in fact, they've learned a lot from Vietnam, Vietnam. Interesting enough was the first time medics were embedded with the infantry. They never were before, prior to that. So, um, and then the reason was it was designed to try and save lives. They in world war two, they were not embedded or Korea. No. Um, what happened in world war two and Korea certainly, um, uh, medics were up near the front, near the battle lines.
Speaker 3 00:42:46 What is the different kinds of wars, a lot, a different way. And they weren't red crosses on their helmets and whatever, and didn't carry weapons. Um, that worked pretty well, but when we got to Vietnam, because there were such, we were operated primarily a lot of small groups that the platoon or squad size or company size operations, um, they wanted the medic embedded with every unit that went on patrol, right? So every time a squad of 10 went out, medic went off as well. And I, and there were bounties on our heads. So we didn't wear the red process and we didn't wear anything that distinguished us and would help us stand out to be to the enemy. And of course he carried a weapon and I carried a weapon. I carried an M 1645, couple of hand-grenades plenty more mind for nighttime ambush patrols.
Speaker 3 00:43:32 And I carried my aid bag, which weighed about 12 pounds. That's the only way you could tell that I was different from other soldiers because I carried the bag. And the have to tell you that, that the being with the soldiers didn't know that was the first time we were actually embedded with the country. But the relationship that we developed with each individual soldier in our unit was phenomenal. I, I, they, they look to the medic to help take care of them, should the unimaginable happen. And, and then, uh, I look to them to protect me when the unimaginable happened, because I'm the one that had to go out to the call. A medic is typically out to the flank or something and, and helps bring that person back so I could render care and then evacuate them eventually. So I explained that kind of a particular situation.
Speaker 3 00:44:16 It's a wonderful bond that exists to this day between medics and military people, no matter who you already talked to generals about the role of medics, and they'll give you a big high-five and thumbs up about the role we played interacting with the soldiers. And I always said, I thought about it that I said during that time, I was always afraid to go into combat. It is not any fun. And it is nasty to me that people get hurt. People die. I was always afraid to go into combat, but at least I had my brothers that made a tremendous difference. Two. I love the way you wrote that just really hit home. Fantastic. And do you, how do you feel about those guys now? A little bit still around, I mean, I know you lost a lot of people, but, uh, some he stayed in touch with some of the survivors.
Speaker 3 00:45:03 Um, you know, actually I'm not in touch with anybody that I actually served with. I do belong to the first infantry division society that do belong to the 26th infantry regiment for our battalion association as well. And we get together every year or two in an association meeting or a conference or convention actually, I'll be in Las Vegas next week with the 22nd regiment. And so that's, that's helpful for it, but, um, we don't sit around and tell lots of detailed horror stories, but we just, we had that commonality that kind of bond that friendship together. And we, we do share about how the families are going, how's it going for you and various things. And that's, that's wonderful relationship there. So I think this is a tough one might be in, you don't have to answer if it's some comfortable, but tell me about your dreams that are associated with this.
Speaker 3 00:45:52 Yeah. Um, I don't mind talking about it because I think that's always good therapy actually, when I've got the book complete, I sat back and I cried and I said, wow, that was pretty therapeutic as well. For me. I don't, I don't know why. I mean, I don't have nightmares per se anymore, but every day I think about these things. It should frequently, they do visit you at night. Um, and, um, and, and what happens is you, you witness, can you see and think about particular situations? If you're wishing the outcome again, could be different that you can't change the outcome. It's always no matter how many times you think about it, the end result is always the same. You made it it's suffered. Severe injuries became formerly disabled veterans, or they died. Um, so you can't help, but you can't change that circumstance. But what you can do is compartmentalize it and learn how to deal with it and move on with your life.
Speaker 3 00:46:48 And I think I got advice one time from a soldier after my first film, an action was at nighttime on an ambush patrol. And that man actually saved my life. And I always had remorse because I've never able to save his life. He died as if he's the one that saw the enemy machine gun and told me to just shift and go around and to do all of that stuff. That one really hit me hard and I didn't know he was killed. And then he was killed. He actually, um, he saw, we were on a patrol getting ready to move into our handbooks pre-site that night. And we went across an open field for shouldn't have been doing. We had, we were being led by a new Lieutenant and he saw the enemy machine gun set up near a village behind a berm on top of the murder.
Speaker 3 00:47:34 And he said, hit a doc. And I was just supposed to end as you and I are about four feet apart. And a burst of that machine gun came and hit in front of us, threw dirt in my face, the ricochets didn't, the ricochets went up over my head, but one of the ricochets brought him in, in the, in the, in the upper shoulder, uh, near the head. Um, but bullet went down to the traumatic end damage inside, and that's just succumb to his injuries later on. But at that moment was really hard. You know, I gave him morphine. I did everything I could, he was Atlanta on top of him trying to hold him down because he was, we're still being attacked and he was trying to get up. I mean, it, wasn't very, very traumatic and I'm trying to deal with that. So you can't help, but think about those kinds of things, but you do compartmentalize them and you do have to move forward.
Speaker 3 00:48:22 After that incident, I was really distraught and there was, uh, an old Sergeant in charge of the foot doing in charge of the medical battalion. And he finally sat me down. He says, bill, I was in world war II. I can tell you it's like this. He says, first of all, he wasn't your brother. It might've been because he wore the uniform, but he wasn't your physical brother. You didn't shoot him. And you did the best you could under the circumstance, pretty shitty circumstances. Actually, he did the best you could. And I'm going to tell you, you've just started your tour. You got 11 months to go and you'd better get your stuff together, or you're not going to be worth a damn to all those other soldiers who are counting on you. And that was like an epiphany after I heard that those comments, I mean, I really needed it.
Speaker 3 00:49:10 I needed somebody to help me process that immediately. And that's how I conducted the rest of my life. I've dealt with many tough situations as we all have into your dreams. All of that, that whole situation. Think about that circumstance. Yes. It's funny. I had another question about stories and it's interesting. You say you took a while for the stories to start coming over. And I grew up with that. There's a, there's a baby boomer. Um, there'll be a little bit younger. We knew you didn't have to go to Vietnam. Um, but my dad was on the mat scrums in the second mobile sunk and he would wake up in the middle of the night screaming. And, uh, sometimes he couldn't remember what the drink was. And then one day he asked me, did this stupid as we're coming down at him. And sometimes I'm stupid. Sometimes it was seatbelts and also we destroyed sunk and all the men on the bridge were killed in Lizzie's captains and his to capitated. Uh, my dad just happened to be out back to me, a cup of tea and a supervised. The evacuation has shifted him, get his feet wet, very straight onto the boat. And he told me that story eventually, I'll be darned. I dream about that. Now, is it possible that trauma of this kind gets passed on to children?
Speaker 3 00:50:40 Um, I suppose if you, if you've shared enough insights into your life past life, about those circumstances with your children and they haven't had too young in age and you haven't had a chance to process it yourself or talk it through with extensively with your parents, your dad is probably good. Yeah. Um, this is a lot of talk. There's a lot of things that I've read and people on the show talking about how trauma goes to reaches down through the generations, especially with, you know, that people involved in Holocaust and things like that. So I, you know, I wonder with you, if that's one of the reasons you didn't talk about much, because there's an instinctual sense of, you know, being a medic to not infect other people with what had happened to you. Yeah. Um, it just, we didn't just didn't talk about the war.
Speaker 3 00:51:26 Um, I, I don't mind talking to groups and talking to veterans, other veterans about it who were there. That's very therapeutic that we do that. So, um, but that's about it. Oh, they're going, gonna end on that some the note, but, uh, there's nothing somber about this wonderful book that you've written in there. Karen defiant <inaudible> uh, man, thank you so much for doing what you did and thank you so much for writing this book and thank you so much for being on our show. Thank you. And I just want to say that I'm really glad I found you in my life because you helped me as your professional skills development helped me get the story out and it feels good. And I wouldn't have this national award. Um, that was phenomenal for me. Uh, I appreciate the accolades and good wishes, but that awards, those awards actually belong to every Vietnam veteran who hasn't gotten their story out because I'm just one of those many people. There's lots of stories out there that need to be told. That's beautiful. And bill, thank you so much for being on the show and saying, thank you. And now this.
