Speaker 1 00:00:34 You are listening to right on radio on 90.3 K F I FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Annie. This weekend celebration of natural national poetry month. Dave welcomes back poet Kim dower to discuss her latest collection of poetry. I wore this dress for you today. Mom poems on motherhood and rest assured these are not Sacra and tributes to good old mom, but rather they are raw, real reflections about what it means to have and to be a mom. Dower is an award-winning poet who lives in Los Angeles. Then in the last part of the hour, Liz old talk to Lynn high tower about her latest thriller, the enlightenment project, cutting edge science meets demonic possession long awaited, new supernatural thriller from award-winning offer Lynn high tower. The enlightenment project is an intelligent and fascinating view into com complex worlds of both medical and the supernatural, all this and more. So stay tuned to right on radio.
Speaker 2 00:01:58 Hello Kim, how are you?
Speaker 3 00:02:00 Hello, David. Um,
Speaker 2 00:02:01 Welcome back. Can
Speaker 3 00:02:02 You see me? Hi. I can see, I can't see you.
Speaker 2 00:02:05 I know I can see you, but you can't see us. We have a little trouble on our end with our cameras, so that's unfortunate because you know, I got all dressed up for this national poetry. Oh yeah. Isn't that unfortunate, but thank God. We're on radio. So <laugh>
Speaker 3 00:02:19 Well, that's good. Did, did you get your hair done for me?
Speaker 2 00:02:22 Yes, of course I did. Well. No, thank you. You're welcome.
Speaker 3 00:02:25 I appreciate
Speaker 2 00:02:26 That. We're so thrilled to have you back. Oh, oh, they're trying to set up the camera now. I'm gonna, so anyway. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. We're we're delighted. Thank, uh, I almost want to ask you feel like I know you a little bit now, especially after reading poems, how you doing? How's your life?
Speaker 3 00:02:41 Oh, you know, it's okay. It's um, I'm healthy knock wood. And, um, we're having little strange weather here in LA, I guess, everywhere, but it was 102 degrees, three nights ago when I went home from work and today it's about 60 degrees.
Speaker 2 00:02:57 Oh God.
Speaker 3 00:02:58 So we're, you know, it's a very schizophrenic, uh, weather situation
Speaker 2 00:03:03 Here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 00:03:05 And, um, you know, and that's basically the state of the world, isn't it? Yes. Nothing makes sense. And you just have to, um, read poetry.
Speaker 2 00:03:13 Thank you. That's right. That's exactly right. It is national poetry months. And, uh, again, we couldn't have anyone better than, than our friend Kim dower to join us. So we have a lot to talk about with your new selection. I wore this dress today for you, mom. Um, do you wanna give us, we wanna start with our reading and we wanna have a couple along the way. We hope we have time, cuz that's important. It's nice to hear poems read aloud. Um, do you wanna talk to us about first? Why a collection, uh, focused around motherhood?
Speaker 3 00:03:44 Yeah, sure. So, you know, I you've had me on before. Yep. Thank you. It's always wonderful. And I, this is my fifth book mm-hmm <affirmative> and uh, in the other four books that have been written over the last 12, 13, 14 years, there was a lot of poems about being a mother, having a mother mm-hmm <affirmative> from, uh, my mother's getting ill dementia to passing away my own. Son's leaving home a, a lot of, a lot of moments. Uh, and I was thinking as I was working on a fifth collection, so many of the poems that people really enjoy white and talk about, ask me to read are the poems I've written about motherhood being one, having one mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so I went through my four collections and I pulled out all the poems about that. And I found, I mean, dare I say, uh, these were my greatest hits, you know, if one has greatest hits. Yeah. These were all poems, you know, that seemed to really resonate and connect with people, right. That people, you know, so I put those together and then I had several new ones and I thought, wow, let's make a cohesive collection. Nice called. I wore this dress today for you mom. And maybe if it came out during national PO month, very close to mother's day mm-hmm <affirmative>, maybe people would find a reason to buy the collection and have it and, uh, forever. And that's what this is all about.
Speaker 2 00:05:14 I love it. Uh, and did you add anything else into the collection? Uh, did you need to, you know, put it some glue in there to hold things together or did it sort of fit on its own?
Speaker 3 00:05:25 Well, you know, it remarkably fit on its own. Although I had, I have about eight new poems in here that, um, some of them were written during the pandemic and uh, really made a nice connection. Yeah. Um, really to it off. So I I'll tell you, David, I've never been this proud of a book. I've it's also a beautiful looking book. The publisher Ren press say, oh my God, it's a hard cover. It's um, beautiful.
Speaker 2 00:05:57 Yeah, it is. It's it's a beautiful thing, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, so with that, let's have a reading.
Speaker 3 00:06:04 All right. Wonderful. Well, I'll read the title poem, which is called. I wore this dress today for you mom. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I wore this dress today for you mom, breezy, floral dancing with color soft silky flows. As I walk Easter Sunday, and you always like to get dressed, go for brunch. Maybe there's a good movie playing somewhere wrong religion. We were not churchgoers, but new Yorkers who understood the, of a parade down fifth avenue, bonnet in lavender powder, blues pinks, hues of spring. The hope it would bring, we had no religion, but we did have noodle Coel grandparents, dads who could fix fans, reach the China on the top shelf, carve the Turkey. That time has passed. You were the last to go mom and I still feel bad. I never got dressed up for you. Like you wanted me to. I had things, things to do, but today in a LA hot, the way you liked it, those little birds, you love to see footing from tree to tree, to the saw one, a twig in its mouth, preparing a bed for its baby might still be an egg. I wish you were here. I've got a closet filled with dress. I need to show you.
Speaker 2 00:07:45 Thank you, Kim. That was Kim dower reading from her latest collection. Uh, I wore this dress today for you mom, and that was the title poem. Thank you and listeners. That was a great example of beautiful example of, uh, I will say the ion that shows up in Kim's poems, the personal references to nature, surprising connections. Um, there seemingly nothing that this woman cannot write a poem about, and this is a great collection that's reflective of that. And I mean that in, in a very sincere way, uh, every, every part of your home, every, an item on a counter, an experience that you have, uh, just going to Andro in your daily life suddenly becomes a moment of, uh, a revelation for all of us. Uh, and I, and that poem is a great example of that. Let's talk more about your mom. Clearly we should, this is a book in, in ours part about her. To what degree is this about your mom? Is she, or to what degree does she, you become a jumping off point for Kim dower to reflect on Kim dower? Um, is, is she a proxy sometimes? Is she here in whole or is she a jumping off point for you?
Speaker 3 00:08:55 Oh wow. David, you know, I, I think all of that, you know, I, I, um, I stopped writing poetry for a long time, uh, and switched gears. That's a different story. But when I started again, uh, as my son was leaving for a call, my mother was starting to just, you know, she was starting to get dementia mm-hmm <affirmative> and, um, it was a very powerful time in my life, a very emotional time, a time of change. And this is when I started writing these poems coming fast and furious. And I think that your question, I think it's both, I think my mother is here throughout these pages. There's a lot, that's really true about what happened. And there's a lot that I can, I combine myself with her. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, like all mothers and daughters, we had a very intense, often difficult, often fabulous relationship, nothing simple about the mother and daughter relationship. Mm-hmm <affirmative> even when it's great. There's nothing simple about it. So what was coming out, uh, was my dealing with what she was going through. And after she passed away, trying to understand and what happen in my own guilt and all the things, you know?
Speaker 3 00:10:22 Yeah. Who was it? Who said, you know, we write poetry to understand, try and understand the inexplicable. Yeah. Try to sort our feelings and make sense of what we can't make sense out of. So these poems in this book, a lot of them are about trying to put together what happened at the end with her, my feelings, my feelings about being a mother, having a son, my own aging. And, um, also some of them are very funny.
Speaker 2 00:10:56 Yes, yes. Uh, you know, I read these poems, uh, with like we all do with myself in mind and my family, my mother has dementia Alzheimer's and I have four sisters, two of whom are very closely connected with her caregiving. And each one of my sisters is getting this book by the way, Ken. And they went to cherish it. I know that. Uh, so, uh, thank you for the book. Uh, it's a great, great, it's great timing for me. <laugh> uh, oh,
Speaker 3 00:11:25 Thank
Speaker 2 00:11:26 You. So, Kim, you know, when you write about people, the way you do people in your life, so honestly, and, you know, use the term raw, whatever you wanna say. There's honesty in, in, in this, in these novels, is that hard to do? Um, do you ever find yourself checking yourself when you're writing about other people that are close to you who are either going to read these poems or they're gonna be out in the world, in your poems?
Speaker 3 00:11:48 Yeah. Um, I, it's not hard to do. It's really easy to do. Uh, I don't edit myself. I just let it go. So the writing about it is not hard to do the images come. The memories come what's hard to do is deciding whether or not to publish, ah, and which ones to publish, because believe it or not, I've got many that I'm not, not ready to publish.
Speaker 2 00:12:13 I see You're right, right, right. And, um, I was gonna, okay. I was gonna follow that up a little more, but uh, you address that you you've got some in check, you've got some on hold. Do you run these poems by anyone in your life before you publish them?
Speaker 3 00:12:30 Are these well, I, um, sometimes I do no. There, I have a small group of people, you know, for years I went to a poetry workshop every Saturday morning for 12 years, uh, 10 till noon, Rainer shine there I was. And a lot of the poems, a lot of poems got sort of, you know, the gone through at these workshops. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, but I haven't been who a workshop, you know, in many, many years. And so I've got a small group of people, uh, a couple of friends who are not poets mm-hmm, <affirmative>, uh, women who, um, you know, unfortunately they're good friends and they'll, they'll love everything. Um, so it's not entirely helpful. It feels good. But then I have some people who will say, uh, you know, you really should rethink this or mm-hmm, <affirmative> this isn't quite there or do better. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> very, very sadly the two people I trusted so much, um, both are dead and very sad to say. Yeah. And that's Thomas Lex and Steven Dunn. Um, and they would both, you know, just straight out, you know, get rid of the last stanza <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:13:42 Um,
Speaker 3 00:13:43 So, you know, and I trusted whatever they said.
Speaker 2 00:13:47 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, good for you. Good. Uh, good for you to be open to that. Uh, I can't believe we're. We are already at the midway point of our discussion, so let's make, have at least one more reading, uh, of another poem. Kim. I know you have some,
Speaker 3 00:14:01 Is there one that you want? I mean, I,
Speaker 2 00:14:03 Um, oh, so I love, I wanna talk, everybody loves, I love many of these and I've marked them up, but, um, everybody loves dinner. Uhhuh <affirmative> resonated with me. Uh, and uh, if you wanna read it, we can talk about it afterwards. I don't remember what page it's on. Um,
Speaker 3 00:14:18 Uh, sure. Let me, um, let me read that one. Uh, and poems do have funny some of them, uh, origins, and I'll tell you, okay. If I can find everybody loves dinner <laugh> um, of course it's the poem. I, I can't find, but I'm, I'm getting there. I will say to you, um, of all the crazy things that I was at the bank one day, and, um, I was doing a transaction with a very sweet young woman teller. And, um, I said, what's, what's up with you tonight? And she said, well, um, well, I'm gonna go have dinner. And I said, well, that sounds great. She goes, yes, everybody loves dinner.
Speaker 2 00:15:03 Ah <laugh> and
Speaker 3 00:15:06 I, you know, I steal lines from people all the time I got in my car and I wrote down every loves dinner.
Speaker 2 00:15:11 That's great. I love it. And,
Speaker 3 00:15:13 Um, found poetry. It was a tough time in, in my life and I liked her title. So here we go. Okay.
Speaker 3 00:15:20 Everybody loves dinner. When I walk into my mother's house, I see a pot on the stove, high flame, charring, the sides. She think she's boiling water, but the water has evaporated like a ghost, fleeing the scene, leaving the bottom scalded, a blackness that cannot be reversed. It was only a matter of months. You see, she was very careful in the kitchen and taught me the same, checked the pilot lights, smell for gas, unclutter, the space where you cook simple things like this. She taught me. So last week when I visited, when I saw the blue flame hugging the sides of that old pot, sitting too close to the Kleenex, I'd handed her sobbing. As she watched tea vs so much violence. Why was it always like this? Sit down, darling. Let's eat. Everybody loves dinner, but there was no food, nothing there to cook. I hadn't brought a thing. What was I thinking? But we smiled, held hands. I changed the channel. She told me she felt full and was ready for bed.
Speaker 2 00:16:40 Thank you, Kim. Remind everyone. This is Kim dower. She's reading from her latest collection. I wore this dress today for you mom. That was her poem. Everybody loves dinner. I found it beautiful and real. And I read it a number of times. And for me came, it became a metaphor for all those things that mothers think they are doing for their children. Even if it has no effect, even if it fails, they're still going to do it. Um, keep loving if you will. And it will never be enough. Um, anyway, I was touched by it.
Speaker 3 00:17:14 Yeah. Thank you. You know, David, I read that poem makes me very sad. Um, I don't remember writing a lot of the poems in this book and when the poem is finished, I send it away and I don't, it doesn't really belong to me anymore. So to see these together, some of them, I mean, that was a very, very, very sad, scary night that that happened when I went in her house. And I don't remember writing this poem, but I remember the feeling I had reading it just now that was the feeling I had that night. Just very sad. Yeah. Feeling.
Speaker 2 00:17:52 Yeah. Uh, food, turn up the, the happiness. Not a bit. And talk about food. Food shows up a lot in, uh, in your past. Uh, you wanna talk about why? I mean, uh, we,
Speaker 3 00:18:05 You know, I, I, I noticed that night I spoke to, uh, an interviewer yesterday and he, he said to me, um, he must have read the whole book and he said, Kim, you, you really talk about eggs a lot. There's a lot of eggs in your palms, scrambled eggs and eggs, over easy <laugh>. And you know, I, listen, food is what puts all together. Food is what connects us. Everyone remembers, oh my God, I ate that. I ate that. And you know, I grew up in a Jewish family and mm-hmm <affirmative>, I mean, I guess it's not just a, a Jewish family, but it was a big thing when I'd go somewhere. My mother would, the first thing she'd say is what did they serve?
Speaker 2 00:18:46 <laugh>? I mean, What did they
Speaker 3 00:18:50 Serve? It was always, what did they serve? And I actually, I should write a poem called what did
Speaker 2 00:18:54 They serve? You should, um,
Speaker 3 00:18:57 I write that down, but it's like, what did they serve? And you know, when my mother was alive, you know, she would say things that would annoy me so much. I'd go mom, who cares that they served? And I would torture her because she just wanted to know what served, but you know, now I have a grown son who's married and they go to all these fun places, because that's what you do when you're 30. And yes, you go to a lot of fun places and they serve food. And so when he come, when they come over, I say, what did they serve? <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:19:27 I
Speaker 3 00:19:27 Just feel like, you know, we do repeat. And if my mother were alive, I'd say, mom, I get it. I, I would gladly tell you every detail of the menu
Speaker 2 00:19:37 <laugh>, you know? Right, right. So
Speaker 3 00:19:41 There's a lot of, there's a lot of food and, you know, I feel like reading a poem called Dubnet.
Speaker 2 00:19:48 Okay.
Speaker 3 00:19:49 Um, do you, do you wanna hear that poem?
Speaker 2 00:19:53 Yes. I speak on behalf of all of our listeners. We want to hear that poem <laugh>
Speaker 3 00:19:58 And I'll tell you why with all that's going on. Um, in Ukraine, um, the tragedy of it, my, my grandmother came from Ukraine and, um, although she called it Russia, they called it Russia, then mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, um, um, this is for her, you know, a lot of the poems in this book are also foreign about my grandmother, who I was, whom I was very, very, very close.
Speaker 3 00:20:22 So this poem is called Dubnet. My grandmother would sip a juice glass of Dubnet dark, purplish, red color of her identical twin sister's lips. The one who stayed behind in Russia every night as she prepared the roast, Mike Douglas blasting on the television, my grandfather snoring the apartment of swirl of garlic, chicken, fat, boiled secrets, longing flooding the rooms like sunlight. Once she offered me a taste. Some people like it with a twist of lemon, but I like it plain. I was seven. My tongue burned to this sweetness. I floated into the next room without moving. I would dress up in her black cloth, Cape secret ladybug pin clump around in her tiny pumps. She was the size of Thelina. I remember the warm baths splashes of Jean TA the pink Chanel bathrobe photo of them as girls hanging in the dark hallway. My grandmother told me her name just once Tanya, this identical, her living on the other side of the world, another Nana saying goodnight to another me.
Speaker 2 00:21:49 Thank you, Kim. That was lovely. Uh, dete is, was there a national law passed from the previous generation where every grandmother had to just be <laugh> immersed inate from the morning they woke up. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 00:22:06 Well I know, right. It's true. I mean, I can still smell it and, and she had gallons of
Speaker 2 00:22:12 It. Yeah, exactly. <laugh>
Speaker 3 00:22:14 Gallons. It was cheap. And you could get it at the drug store.
Speaker 2 00:22:17 Sure. Yeah. Anyway, a lovely poem full of, uh, many details like that. These poems are really full of those details. Uh, and your father shows up occasionally. Yeah. Um, why did you choose the poems you did where your father appears?
Speaker 3 00:22:36 Well, I know that, um, one of them, um, my, my mother appears too. I mean, it's probably the poem where about the pilot mm-hmm <affirmative> um, you know, I've written a lot about my father as well. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so I feel a little, um, one of my books was dedicated to him, so I, I feel like I've done my work
Speaker 2 00:22:54 <laugh> yeah, no, it's it's about your mom. It's all good. <laugh> yeah.
Speaker 3 00:22:57 Well, the poem that, um, is really about my father is called thirst and, uh, it's one of my favorite poems and it really, really, really, uh, describes my, my dad describes the way my mother, um, would talk about him. It's really, he's the star of the poem, but she's back there. Uh, so yeah. Um, I chose it because I really liked the poem and I wanted it in this collection. I sort of snuck it in. Yeah. So it would be in it,
Speaker 2 00:23:30 You know, um, you know, Kim, I got the two minute warning just before I ask, ask you that question, believe it or not. So, um, I'm going to, we're gonna tease our listeners with the word thirst and the poem thirst, and say, you have to go get this on your own people and, and read this poem, uh, because I want in our remaining minute here, uh, to have you tell us what you're working on now, or what's next for Kim dower and it's Kim dower, D O w E R ladies and gentlemen, Kim dower.com check out our great website. Um, Kim is involved in so many things in the, the literary world and, um, that's wonderful. So, yes, what's up next?
Speaker 3 00:24:10 Oh gosh, I don't know, David, you know, I write every day, love it. Um, you know, it's not always a complete something, but it's a line or two and sometimes it, it grabs me and, but I, I, I do have a day job, so I have to abandon my poems. Yeah. You know, you know, little, little toddlers put them in their little, their little envelope on my computer. Yep. But there's always something going on and I probably have 200 ones since the pandemic, since yeah. I need to look at them and see what's going on there.
Speaker 2 00:24:40 That's it. Right.
Speaker 3 00:24:42 That's it. That's all we can do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:24:45 Uh, well, keep writing and keep sending us your books and your poems and keep putting them out there. We all need them. Kim.
Speaker 3 00:24:52 Thank you, David.
Speaker 2 00:24:53 We are welcome. This has been Kim dower, her new collection. I wore this dress today for you mom. And now this,
Speaker 5 00:25:17 This is Liz olds and I'm speaking tonight with Lynn. Hi tower award winning ministry and thriller writer. Hi Lynn.
Speaker 6 00:25:25 Hey Liz, are you?
Speaker 5 00:25:26 I'm doing great. How are you doing?
Speaker 6 00:25:28 I'm excellent.
Speaker 5 00:25:30 <laugh> thanks. Thanks for coming and being on right on radio on this Tuesday evening. Uh, why don't we start with you telling a little bit about what the book is about and then a reading.
Speaker 6 00:25:41 Okay. Uh, let me ask you something. Have you ever met anybody who's been possessed?
Speaker 5 00:25:47 No.
Speaker 6 00:25:48 Let me introduce you to my hero, Noah Archer, a neurosurgeon, um, researching refined brain stimulation treatments to create enlightenment on demand, to treat patients with chronic depression, addiction, mental illness, and the results are astounding. And he's, uh, put this treatment together, um, because he's always wondered how it was. He was vulnerable to possession and he thinks it will strengthen, uh, his ability to resist, um, uh, you know, the demonic coming back into his life. But what he finds out is the results are astounding. And, uh, a lot of patients have amazing, uh, wonderful results and some of them choose to go to the dark side.
Speaker 5 00:26:35 Mm mm-hmm <affirmative> and your reading,
Speaker 6 00:26:40 All righty, I'm gonna start with chapter one
Speaker 6 00:26:46 That night late in the, or exhausted after hours on my feet topped off with a late night emergency surgery. I was removing the octopus tentacles of a medulloblastoma from the brain of a 14 year old girl who wanted to work for NASA when she grew up. And I felt the presence. It had been there since I was 11, like a shadow in my peripheral vision. But tonight, tonight, there was some kind of shift, like a sudden change in air pressure. And it broke my concentration. I felt a surge of nausea as that brought bile to my mouth and caught a whiff of something that would make a man with less control gag and turn away a quick look at my surgical team. But no one had noticed anything.
Speaker 6 00:27:38 My head nurse, a veteran of Iraq, white sweat from my forehead, bringing back into the mall. He was the only one who seemed to feel the prick of something other in the room. He gave me a strange look, his combat experience, putting him on the alert for what he likely did not know, but like me, he had the sense that something here was wrong. I took another long look at the brain tissue mag from my viewing pleasure. I had the feeling that something was waiting, wanting, circling my patient and that I was out of time. I probed ever so gently. And I found it the dirty little hand print of the tumor, hiding away. Malignant tumors are ambitious warriors out to invade and conquer. We still don't know what causes them. I do not like not knowing. I do not like uncertainty. I am a neurosurgeon, one of the gods of medicine, but like all of us, I have to live with it. So I took what was wise prayed to the gods of radiation, to annihilate the rest and envisioned my patients. In 20 years,
Speaker 6 00:28:46 We, I ordered to Mar to close my head nurse gave me another look. And I walked away from the, or Olivia's parents jumped when I came into the room and their faces tight with tension and the tracks of tears. I held their hands and we sat together and I answered their questions. All of them that could be answered and that it was off the cords to my office. Noisy during the day were quiet. The thread, gray carpet absorbing the tread of my footsteps, but there was something the darkness that scurried like a rat in the corner, right at the edge of my vision. I stopped for a moment. Then wisely. I ignored it wisely. I looked away when the crossroad comes, you do not recognize it. You do not know it until afterward looking back, but this is when it began again. Have you ever known anyone who survived being possessed? You do now you've met me. I headed into my office to get my car keys, make a few notes. My office lights were on the door, opened a crack. I felt the presence before I saw the man on the couch beside my desk, a priest. Okay.
Speaker 5 00:30:03 That's Lynn, hHow reading from the enlightenment project, her new book. Uh, you've done this a little bit. Why don't you introduce us a little bit more to Dr. Noah Archer and especially talk some about his childhood?
Speaker 6 00:30:19 Well, when Noah are, Richard was 11 years old, his father died, um, from a sudden brain aneurysm. And, uh, Noah was, uh, angry and frightened and, uh, vulnerable to, uh, to a dark possession that had targeted him, probably knowing that when he grew up, he might be essential to, um, to, uh, birthing the enlightenment project, which would find its way to strengthen people who were under spiritual attack. So he was targeted as a child and he met, um, uh, father Perry, Kavanaugh, Episcopal priest, who, um, who did exorcisms with him. And, uh, exorcism is a, it's just a prayer of deliverance. It's a healing. And so, um, he, he was able to get, get, be free of it and, uh, dedicated his life to neurology and being a neurosurgeon. But he's always ashamed of it. It was always a deep, dark secret. And, uh, he, you know, he never told anyone, not even his wife.
Speaker 6 00:31:32 So when it comes back, well, I mean, you know, who do you tell by the way I was possessed as a child, that everything is okay now, and let's have a date, you know, this kind of an awkward thing in the real world <affirmative>, but his wife, uh, finds out what happened. And, and her problem is that, uh, you know, it was a lie of a mission. And, um, it was one of the biggest things in his life that he never told her, and it causes a huge RT in their marriage. And, and during the, during the novel, they, um, they have to deal with that issue and find their way back together. And there's quite a bit of romance in that part of it.
Speaker 5 00:32:08 Yes. Yes. There is introduce us to father Perry, Kavanaugh. Uh, he has a, a big role and he's a very, uh, he's a very gentle man and, uh, very likable. So us a little bit more about him.
Speaker 6 00:32:26 Oh, I'd be delighted to, I really love Perry Kavanaugh. He, um, you know, he's, he's a warrior when it comes to doing S and what he does not know is that he is the defendant of Mary Magdalene, who was, you know, one of the original best exorcists. So he has got a, uh, tradition and a genetic, um, ability, uh, to be very good at what he does. And, uh, he is not like other exorcists. He does not, um, do the same kind of instruction. When he, when he talks to the demonic entities, he actually never even addresses them personally. He thinks that's just, that's just gonna get you under trouble. That's kind of over your pay grade. There's no point in getting snarled up in those kinds of conversations, but he doesn't send them back to, um, you know, back to Satan. He, uh, he tries to send them forward to God, which makes him very unusual and a perfect candidate for something dark that may want to get free.
Speaker 5 00:33:34 You have done a ton of research about this, um, first off, uh, why don't you share with us how, uh, uh, it has been, uh, it's now known as a mental, not a mental illness, but a, a significant, well, it's in the DSM. Why don't you talk a little bit about the, yeah. Okay.
Speaker 6 00:33:57 Sure. Absolutely. Um, you know, it used to be a deep, dark secret, right. And no one would admit they were possessed and the church wanted to keep it quiet. They didn't even like to admit that they, they did exorcisms. Um, and now it is mainstream. And, um, there are, exorcists on YouTube. Uh, they, they do exorcisms by cell phone and the demonic are sending texts to the Exorcist on their way that say she is ours. You will never get her back, which I find absolutely terrifying. And no, I would not like ever to get any demonic texts. Thank you very much. Um, and, uh, I found to my absolute astonishment that M Scott tech, the, um, renowned psychiatrist who wrote the road less traveled, did two exorcisms during, uh, during his career. And he said that, you know, he started out completely as a nonbeliever, and he was just going to help these people with their mental illnesses.
Speaker 6 00:35:05 And he, you know, he realized that this was not an internal issue. This was external, this was an external spiritual attack. And, um, he became completely invent convinced. Um, and he, in his hope was that eventually it would be a recognized, um, condition. And it is now it is in the, um, diagnostic and statistical manual of psychiatric conditions. Um, because it doesn't, um, present as say dissociation or, or schizophrenia, none of the treatments for that work. So some of the psychiatrists and therapists I talked to about it said that basically we're checking off boxes and if this an internal problem or an external problem, and if it is external, then we're looking to, um, spiritual, spiritual solutions.
Speaker 5 00:36:05 Wow. You know, I was gonna ask you about M Scott Peck because the road was traveled is the book about love and happy relationships and learning that sort of thing. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, and he's moved kind of in a deeper direction of believing in evil and believing in possession. And I'm wondering if you were surprised by that if you had read the roadless less traveled and, and were surprised by his change,
Speaker 6 00:36:34 I was shocked because I had read all his books and, uh, I thought the people of the lie was really interesting. And as a thriller writer, you know, my research takes me to a lot of dark places and all my fears become your fears. Once I put this in my books, hopefully. Um, and so when I ran across the book, he wrote about exorcism, which is called glimpses of the devil. I mean, my jaw just dropped and I about fell outta my chair, and I'm thinking so, and Scott tech did two exorcisms and I, I was just absolutely astounded and his insights, um, on why some people are targeted. Um, I found fascinated if he, he said it may be linked to trauma, but it also may be linked to people who actually are very good people and they are targeted for exactly that reason that the darkness wants to, you know, snuff out their light,
Speaker 5 00:37:36 Talk some about the Exorcist and how the, that influenced you.
Speaker 6 00:37:41 Well, I saw it when I was really young and, um, it was in a movie theater that had its very own generator. So the night that I watched it, our city was hit by tornadoes and the city, you know, everybody, you know, went to their shelter and the city was shut down and the electricity went out except where I was there at the movie. And nobody came in and said, Hey, go home. There's tornadoes. I said, we all just watched the Exorcist. And we walked out into this dark night with no lights, no cars on the road. And, you know, the movie had already terrified me and it just felt like the end of the world. So it totally made a big impression. Um, and I always wondered what happened to the boy that the movie in the book were based on because it was based on a real case.
Speaker 6 00:38:33 Um, and you know, his pseudonym was Rolin doll and he, um, I think his final exorcism was done. It was 1949 by two Jesuit priests in St. Louis in a hospital in St. Louis. And when they did the final exorcism and when he was freed, <affirmative> of, you know, the demonic manifestation, they, um, they sealed up the hospital room and, um, not long after both of the priests died, the, um, hospital was destroyed, but some of the furniture that was in the room during the exorcism was sold at auction, the, and people have tracked that down. And, um, people who bought that furniture have problems in their homes. So I found that pretty terrifying, uh, just to, uh, just to think that it got passed along sort of like this manifested feed of evil that you bought and put in your office or something.
Speaker 5 00:39:37 Um, yes. Um, yeah, we're having a little tornado warning here, speaking of tornadoes. So are you really? Yes. But, uh, but we're still talking to you, so that works
Speaker 6 00:39:47 Well. I mean, it just goes with the territory.
Speaker 5 00:39:49 Yeah. There you go.
Speaker 6 00:39:50 Have a tornado
Speaker 5 00:39:51 <laugh> there you go. Um, you said, uh, that many of the books that you did read astonished you, what astonished you?
Speaker 6 00:40:00 Yes, they did. Well, these were, um, these were books by say, um, they were by exorcists who wrote about it. Um, and one of them, I really liked a point he made, uh, which is that all of us have autonomy over our own soul. And that's something we can always remember. So that, that is something I like to pass along because I believe that, um, but, uh, you know, um, a couple of sociologists, this is, you know, where exorcism is the point where it's being studied everywhere. Um, by various academic, you know, very various academics. And there were, um, there were some sociologists Italian, and they, um, had access to, um, 10 years of notes of a, of an Exorcist. And so they came to some, some bra odd conclusions, which were, um, so how there is like a typical kind of person who is seriously possessed.
Speaker 6 00:41:08 Um, usually most people it's only gonna be about 5% and the rest of 'em, they may have mental health issues, or they may just have something milder where just simple prayers of deliverance help them. A lot of manifestations, um, are in a physical space. So it would be a haunted house, but it wouldn't be like, um, a ghost hunt. It would be like something incredibly malevolent and evil would be on things. Um, and so their average person who is possessed the description surprised me, but it actually matched up with the work I was doing and that it is usually male between the ages of 40 and 50 highly educated and very successful in their work. So that's surprised. Um, I was surprised to find that the number of Exorcist priests over the last few years have quadrupled, uh, wow. I was a sh I had no idea.
Speaker 6 00:42:03 They had an exorcism hotline in Milan <laugh>. Um, and it was so, uh, in demand that the line kept going down because they were just overrun with calls. Um, and it's just, it's just out there. I have a, a letter on my desk from, um, an exorcism team at a Southern California, um, Catholic church. And what they told me is that, um, that with a particularly since the pandemic, that there have been just an awful lot more people needing help. And they're pretty much overrun, um, with people who need them. So the demand is huge.
Speaker 5 00:42:48 Did you have another that you'd like to do for us?
Speaker 6 00:42:52 I do.
Speaker 5 00:42:54 All right, should go for it.
Speaker 6 00:42:58 So this takes place not long after the first reading, where Noah realizes that there's the presence of the darkness from his childhood back in his life and he's uneasy. And so now he's gone home and he's, um, pulled into the driveway of his house. And he's sitting in the car, watching the house. I watched the house for a while, but I saw nothing worrisome, just the comfort of lights behind the shears, coming from the kitchen, great room where my wife would likely have left my dinner on the stove. I upstairs, I saw the glow of a nightlight from the bedroom where our boys, our fellows is Myra. And I like to say, slept in the same bed. They could each have a bed in a room to themselves, but they were brothers from a mysterious but hard life. I know nothing about our foster children until their mother agreed to and let them go to adoption.
Speaker 6 00:43:58 Myra and I cannot seem to conceive. And these boys came to us through Episcopal charities, Perry coming to my rescue for the second time in my life, told me the social worker's story, how she went to the police station to pick up two little brothers who sat together in the same plastic air, holding the thumb total of their possessions in a plastic grocery bag, 38 cents, a mouse puppet, worn and chewed by either a puppy or a teething child, and two plastic cars that were scratched, stained and well loved. They were four and two when they came to us and they insisted on sleeping in a twin bed with a plaid bed spread that Myra picked out. They used the second bed to house stuffed animals. I shut the car door softly, and it was then that light from the side yard flashed, suddenly filtering through the Lacework of waxy green leaves and heavy white blossoms on the line of Magnolia trees bordering the yard, a jog toward the light, a thread of tense muscles tingling at the base of my spine.
Speaker 6 00:45:08 It could be anything raccoon. Some our dog cash out for late night. She regularly opens the back gate when she has something to investigate, but it wasn't just anything. It was my son Vaughn just turned seven. He had on soft plaid, PJs, like a tiny old man and his feet were bare. He was staring off to the right near the far corner of our yard. And he had his chin tucked down like he did when his feelings were hurt or he was scared. Vaughn. I said, he did not react. He was still enough to make me wonder if he was sleepwalk. He had never done so that I knew of though, like a all children, he had bad dreams. I spoke softly. GLING my voice VA, Hey buddy, what you doing out? So late, he turned his face was chalk white under the yellow light eyes wide. He turned back to the corner of the yard and pointed. And I saw him a man in the shadows facing us just out of the spill of light. I was aware of TA barking, madly from inside the house lights going on behind me. There was something familiar about this man. And I grabbed Vaughn and scooped him into my arms. Vaughn's voice was high, pitched his, going to do it again. Daddy make him stop.
Speaker 5 00:46:38 Wow. We have been visiting with Lynn high tower author of many award winning books. And this book, the enlightenment project. Uh, we just have maybe a minute. So I wanna ask you if you're gonna stay with book or, uh, what's next.
Speaker 6 00:46:57 Um, I have two on working on now. One's a standalone thriller, but there is the other one is a second book on possession because I have just found a place that is so terrifying. Oh, about 47 miles from my house. Um, that I'm gonna have to write about it.
Speaker 5 00:47:16 Oh goodness. I can't wait. I really enjoyed this book. A great deal. The enlightenment project by win high tower. Thank you so much. I have a million more questions I could ask you, but we are out of time. So, um, I will let you go.
Speaker 6 00:47:33 Okay. Thank you, Liz.
Speaker 5 00:47:34 Thank you very much. You have a great evening.
Speaker 8 00:47:37 Okay.
Speaker 2 00:47:53 You are listening to right on radio on K F a I 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Dave Feig. I'd like to thank our special guests tonight. Kim dower and Lynn high tower, another great show. And to you, all of our listeners, without your support and donations, K F I would not be possible. You can find more news and info about right on radio at KFA i.org/right on radio that's w R I T E. You can also listen to all of your favorite, right on radio episodes on Spotify, iTunes, Google podcast, apple podcasts, and wherever you get those podcasty things. And now please stay tuned for Bonzo, Minnesota.
