Speaker 0 00:00:01 You are listening to right on radio on K F a I 90.3 FM and streaming live on the web, but K F a i.org. I mean, Graham Leask tonight on, right on radio, Liz Oles talks with Kara Ruda author of the next wife. There's no limit to the lies, suspicion and secrets that can poison the perfect marriage in this twisting novel of suspense. Ruda is an accomplished business leader, entrepreneur national speaker, and international bestselling, and award-winning author. She lives in Southern California with her husband, congressmen, Holly ruder, and her for 20 something children
Speaker 1 00:00:43 And I'm Josh Webber. And the last part of the hour, Ian Graham Lee's talks with Lynn anger, author of American gospel set during a time that resonates with our attention filled moment. American gospel cuts, close to the battles occurring within ourselves and for the soul of the nation. Anchors published two previous novels on discovered country and the high divide. He teaches English at Minnesota state university Morehead, all the, some more. So stay tuned to write on radio. Kara, are you there? How are you
Speaker 2 00:01:21 Doing? Pretty good. How are you doing tonight?
Speaker 3 00:01:24 I'm doing really well. Thank you. Why
Speaker 2 00:01:26 Don't we start? This is Kara Ruda author of the next wife. Why don't we start with just a little bit of a introduction? No spoilers. Of course. And then the reading that you have prepared.
Speaker 3 00:01:38 Sure. Um, let's see. I know my books are very hard to talk about without spoiling anything. So I will give you, I'll give you the setup. So we, before the story starts, we have Kate and John Nelson. They fall in love and they create a business together and it's flourishing. It's called event co and it's become successful beyond their wildest dreams. They have a daughter Ashlyn and everything is perfect until about four years ago, John Nelson, and they work in the business together. John Nelson hires a new executive assistant named Tish and subsequently falls in love with her. And so they are married now. So Tish is the next wife, which is the title of the book. And Tish is about 20 years younger than Kate. And they all work together in the same business still. And when we meet them, when the story opens, the company is going public, it's having its IPO and they're all coming together in the conference room to celebrate.
Speaker 3 00:02:32 So Ashlyn's a summer intern now she's in college and this is her summer job. The first way Kate is there and the next wife Tisha's there. And of course, John, so that is where we start. So I figured I'd just start out reading the first chapter part of the first chapter, which is in Tisha's perspective if that's okay with you. Sure. All right. So here it is chapter one, Tisch, despite popular notions to the contrary, it isn't easy being the next wife. I mean, sure. I have the benefit of his success without struggling to the early days, whatever that means, but I also don't get to enjoy the open space as a possibility, the opportunity to, to create a life together, baggage free. So as we gathered in the conference room to celebrate event, cause big news, baggage invades my space. I know one of the pieces standing just outside the conference room door, Ashlyn, the opinionated and overly dependent.
Speaker 3 00:03:27 For the most part, we have an amicable relationship when I've worked hard to cultivate and she understands the parameters. I used to be babysit for her and we have a certain bond since she told me so many secrets, she thinks I've done. Likewise, next to her stands the steamer trunk of baggage, Kate wife, number one, people say I'm a spitting image of Kate when she was yelling. And I am, we're both slim with shiny brown hair and big smiles. She is simply older by more than 20 years and worn version of B in her. I see my future sort of, she can't seem to stop wearing business suits to the office. I mean the 1980s are calling and they want their clothes back today. For example, she's wearing all white meaning she's either a suffragette or a pure snow as if despite our differences in age and style, that cliche about men having to type is true.
Speaker 3 00:04:20 I mean, men, aren't that original, they're simple beans, easy to figure out, keep them happy, well fed and all areas. If you get my drift and blah, blah, blah, a happy life, especially after they've had success. Yeah. Why would you let them slip through your fingers then that's when you hold on tight. Sure. They're more work as they get older and more successful. That's just part of the deal. Some of us know how to keep our men and some, well, they just don't. I'm going to hang on. There will not be another wife, Kate and I make eye contact. And I grin reveling in the fact I'm here inside the conference room. She did next to John while she's milling around outside, trying to figure out what be her places it's awkward for her. I'm sure. Oh good. There's Jennifer, beautiful vice president of marketing going out of her way to make Kate feel welcome in the conference room.
Speaker 3 00:05:08 She's gushing over John's past family as if she were a long lost relative. I should never have allowed her to be hired. Jennifer meets my eye and then quickly find something to stare out on the floor. I wonder again, why I'm forced to work around someone who could be ripped from the pages of a fashion magazine. I'm a fool. That's why I have a note. I don't need John's attention divided anymore than it already is. I forced a smile as Kate and Ashlyn settled into their seats in the conference room, selecting chairs on the opposite end for me at the large glass table, all the officers and key employees fill the room. Now the stakeholders as they call them numbering 24 of us, passion stares at me across the table. Her entitled confidence misplaced. She has no power here. She has behaved than a real friend after John and I married.
Speaker 3 00:05:55 Maybe things would be different for her, but it's too late for that. We act like we have a relationship when John's around, but it's a lie. I break away from the brat and look around the table. Almost all the people here have been here since the beginning. Their tension and excitement are palpable beside me. And I feel John shift in his seat. He's never quite gotten used to this. All of his family being together in one place. Despite the fact we all worked here together and ignorant bliss, not so long ago. And I'll stop there.
Speaker 2 00:06:26 That's Kara Ruda from the next wife. Uh, welcome again to right on radio and you're right. It is I, as I was writing questions, I was thinking, how can I ask these questions without spoiling something? So I'm going to be really careful and you can tell me if I'm getting too close to giving something away, but this is an easy one. How, what inspired you, who, and what inspired you to write this particular book? The next wife?
Speaker 3 00:06:54 Well, you know, um, there's a lot of headlines that you can read about couples, uh, running a business and trying to run a family together to, um, Dylan, Melinda gates being one of the latest examples. I also had that in my experience, my husband and I started a company together and ran it together for 10 years and it's stressful and it's, there's all kinds of things that can happen. We didn't have a Tish happen, fortunately, but that's kind of where the notion started. Like what would happen if you both worked so hard to build a company, to build a family and then it all falls apart over another woman. So that was kind of the starting idea.
Speaker 2 00:07:32 And, uh, you talked a little bit about this, but why don't you expand on your experience as an entrepreneur who worked alongside your husband and uh, how did it affect the story? How did it, uh, um, move it forward for you, your own personal experience and how did that fit in with the fictionalized stuff that you grew out of whole cloth, so to speak?
Speaker 3 00:07:57 Right. So we did, we had a business it's called real living real estate. We ended up selling it, but we had an office building where he was on one side of the building and I was on the other corner office. So that's very similar to John Kate set up when you meet them in the story. And I also found during that experience that, I mean, there's like great highs, but like a lot of stress as well. And the kids would all be, we have four kids and we'd come home from the office and we're sitting down to dinner and all invariably business would work its way back in. And the kitchen like stopped talking about real living and talking, you know, so it's a tough juggling act. And then in this kind of scenario in a business like this, the way to power is oftentimes in between the middle of it, the two people running the business. So if you can get the ear of the husband, for example, then you can drive a wedge right in there. So that kind of, I mean, that kind of tension and stress is really at the heart of it, but I wanted to kind of flip it around too, so that it's not something that's happening to the characters. They're all very active in the plot as it moves forward.
Speaker 2 00:09:03 Yeah. You know, you, in terms of form, you chose to write the story from several different first person views Tish and, uh, Kate and John and Ashland, each first person and wondering boy, that seems like an awful lot of balls to keep juggling in the air. And I'm wondering if you could talk to them about that juggling and also how you manage to, uh, uh, keep it all rolling.
Speaker 3 00:09:28 Yeah. Thanks for the question. I, the last two domestic suspense novels that I wrote were all first person point of view, but with a single narrator all the way through. So the best day ever has a male innovator point of view, which I'd never done all the way through a full, full book named Paul. And then in the favorite daughter, Jane has a similar tale that she tells him first person. So it was actually a little bit freeing to have more than one point of view on page. So while this book jumps into my head and it started with Tish as the Bush, as a book starts out with Tish, as soon as she began to tell her side of the story was character. Kate's like, wait a minute, wait a minute. I have something to say about that. So then Kate kind of unfolded. I'm a pantser. So that is really how all of my books have become so far. And once Kate started speaking about her excited, the story, then the daughter Ashton's like, wait, I've been watching everything. I have a point of view too. So I know that sounds weird when the characters kind of start speaking to you, but that's how it happens for me.
Speaker 2 00:10:29 No, I, I enjoyed it. It was, uh, you know, I kept thinking, okay, what's going to come next. Who's gonna, who's gonna speak up now and have their say, um, what do you enjoy about writing? So would you call the suspense? It's not a mystery, I don't think, but it could be suspensory it could be a thriller. I'm wondering how you define those things as an author for yourself. And then I'm wondering what you like about writing these, these, uh, books.
Speaker 3 00:10:57 Yeah, I would call it the genre that I kind of, um, I'm drawn to, I believe most people call it domestic suspense. And to me that means it's something with the family and there's drama within the family. And there's also something, something people behaving badly in the suburbs is what I like to write about. I'm a product of the suburbs. And, um, it's like always been like what happens beneath the surface of seemingly perfect lives and the whole notion of keeping up with the Joneses and the grass is always greener. All of those kind of cliches all come from that. Right? So we spent most of my kids time growing up in Columbus, Ohio, and that's where the story, the next wife is set. And then we've been out here in California almost 15 years now. So it's funny because you can write about the suburban experience and be talking to a group library group in Dallas, and they have the similar experiences in suburbs there as they do in Ohio as they do in California. So it's a very, um, it's a very common kind of way of looking at things and way of looking at life. And I think that's why these books resonate as well,
Speaker 2 00:12:08 So that you would say would be the reason that readers find these books so appealing.
Speaker 3 00:12:14 I think so. I mean, I think it's always nice to escape into a story that takes you away and maybe, uh, amplifies some things that you see in your own experience in the suburbs, but then you're like, oh my goodness, I'm so glad it didn't go there because I meant to hopefully these, I mean, what I write, I want to be entertaining. I want you to maybe check a little bit with dark humor and it's definitely an escape. It's not anything, you know, literary, but I do think that they serve a purpose and it's different. I love reading domestic suspense and I love writing them too
Speaker 2 00:12:50 Well. It was kind of the bigger they are, the harder they fall too with your, uh, uh, corporations and going public and people being very, very, very rich and suddenly it doesn't matter anymore. Things happen. Um, well, let's talk about, uh, you as a writer, uh, you, you have been very successful entrepreneur with the real estate company and working with your husband and so on, but it sounds like from, uh, the information that I read on the publication, that it was kind of a dream of yours to be a writer all along. And I'm wondering how you move forward with that. And what would you say to people who are dreaming of that while they're doing something else?
Speaker 3 00:13:37 Yeah. And that's the key, right? Because, um, with the writing life, I think a lot of people start it as their side dreams and that's perfectly fine. That's how it was for me since third grade. I know he knew that I wanted to write novels or be a writer. I don't know if I articulated as novels, but I had a very clear passion for that, but I also knew that I needed my chops and also make money. So I was a journalist and a magazine editor and then turned to marketing and then eventually ran the company with my husband. But all along, I was always writing on the side either for freelancing, for magazines or doing my own projects and, and, uh, just kind of working on my craft. So that, that was always kind of the passion on the side. But I knew I wanted to do it full time, but you know, you were writing your first draft and maybe put it away in the drawer and bring it back out again.
Speaker 3 00:14:31 So when I was running the business with my company, with my husband, the American marketing association asked me to write it up like a manual for marketing. So I was going around the country talking to women entrepreneurs. And I decided to turn that instead into a pitch for a non-fiction book. And the entire point of really you incorporated eight essential for women. Entrepreneurs is telling people that you can live a life of your dreams, put your passions into action. Even if it's a side hustle to start, just get started. And that's what I did myself. So I was cleaning around the country telling them, and just that like thousands of women in these big halls, because when she write a nonfiction book, they expect you to go talk about it. I'm like I put everything I know in the book. I was like, no, go talk about it.
Speaker 3 00:15:16 So I found myself saying those words to people and realizing I hadn't fully committed to the dream yet. So I went back and I sat down and I pulled out the draft of my novel. I'd been working on and made it my full-time job for, I guess, about six months and then submitted. So that's when I first that's when I first made it real, I guess, but all along, I knew what the dream was. And I knew that maybe I'm raising four kids and I'm working. Full-time maybe now isn't the time that I can be a full-time author, but I'm going to be doing it in my spare time. So I'd write it at night when the kids went to sleep, I drive anytime I could.
Speaker 2 00:15:54 We're speaking with Kyrie Ruda author of the next wife. And, uh, we're talking about dreams, making dreams come true. You, you, in addition, obviously we've talked about this a little bit already that, uh, in addition to an author, you have also been a very successful business person. And, uh, one of the things, uh, it seems that is important to you is giving back here community. Um, and I'm wondering if he would want to talk a little bit about some of the things, one of the things that really, uh, interested me was the, uh, homeless work that you did in, uh, Ohio. And I was wondering if you talk a little bit about that and also about some of the other projects and giving back kinds of things that you try to do.
Speaker 3 00:16:39 Sure. I mean, as you know, and, and most people know once when she started being involved in charities and giving back and you, you get so much more in return. So I smile when I think about all the things, because I just have such fun memories every step of the way, but the shelter for homeless families you're talking about was back when I was in my twenties, I was working at an ad agency and I read an article about homeless families. I hadn't until then realized what happened was the moms and the little kids were separated and put in a women's shelter. And the husbands and older boys like boys over 16, had to go to a men's shelter. So there you have this family, the last thing they have is being an intact family unit and they were getting separated. So I, um, got a group of volunteers and we got together and created a campaign and actually started the first walk-in emergency shelter for homeless families in Columbus, Ohio.
Speaker 3 00:17:33 So it was a really rewarding, um, thing to be involved in. And like I said, it was all volunteers and all young people, we just knew that that wasn't the right thing to have happening. And we got corporate sponsors and it was amazing. The people I met along the way, we would have a big holiday party every year for all the kids at all the shelters and wrap presents and having it was, it was really, it was, it was a amazing experience for myself and hopefully for those that were helped by that. But I, I do think that if you can, and if you have the time giving back, I've been a big fan of food banking and, um, making sure food insecurity and shining the light on that. So that's also one of my passions I would say is to, um, cause with food banking, a lot of times they're getting not used food into the hands of people who really need it. And in a country like ours, it's sad to say how many people are going without food, especially children. So that's another area like to be involved with.
Speaker 2 00:18:37 Well, um, you did some work in Ohio, uh, some giving back work and the book is set in Grandville and that's in Ohio, right? The kind of a fictional story. Uh, what, uh, what about Ohio? Is it that you wanted to set this story there rather than California or New York or someplace else? And, and why Granville instead of just calling it Columbus for Allie day's sake?
Speaker 3 00:19:07 Well, okay. So Columbus is a city and Grandville is a made up suburb, which is in fact, upper Arlington, Ohio, where all my kids were born and where we live, where my husband was born, as a matter of fact. So we lived there for many years. I'm a proud graduate of upper Arlington high school. So I'd like to know my studies really well, so I can let my people kind of run free there. So it's been funny best day ever. My first domestic suspense was set in Columbus, this suburb of Granville, and then the favorite daughter hopped over to Southern California. And it's really the character they'll come with, like a setting in mind and their, I don't know their character presence. So Jane was definitely wanting to be in Southern California. And then when the next wave popped in, Tish was I'm in Ohio and we're going to be working in this office in downtown Columbus. So yeah, it's, it's an interesting phenomenon, but for me, like I said, the suburban settings really key and the similarities between suburban studies, even though people wouldn't necessarily think that Ohio in California have that much in common, they really do when he gets right down to what people care about and what they're trying to do to raise their children and make a happy life. So that is why it's somebody's home, which comes out in January, is set back out here in California.
Speaker 2 00:20:25 Ah, so you got a book coming out. You want to talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 3 00:20:30 Sure, sure. Um, well I, can't so funny. I haven't like got it in my head yet to talk about yet, but it is, it's another domestic suspense and it's this story. Yes. Two families, one home and too many secrets is the kind of tagline and it's kind of initiative belonging, a mom and a daughter moving out of the house that they've always lived in and, uh, getting kind of getting away from her husband into this home that the wife and the other husband have to leave. See, I don't really have it clear yet, but it's all centered around one home and kind of who really belongs there. So hopefully it's, hopefully I can say it better than this by the time it come out. But I really like it,
Speaker 2 00:21:13 But these incredible plot twists, I mean, they're, <inaudible> all over the place. Fascinating fun.
Speaker 3 00:21:23 It is really fun. And that's, I mean, like I said, I mean, I've wanted to do this as a living for my whole entire life. So it's such a blessing to me and like creation, like the coming up with the plot and kind of sitting down for the first time with a blank computer screen and having stories come to life. I mean, there's nothing better than I can think of. So to me, it's it's yeah, I have plenty of stories. It's just getting them down on paper and hopefully having my agents like them.
Speaker 2 00:21:53 Well, it sounds like, uh, you have got a lot going on here, uh, putting out this book and finishing up the next one. So we will, uh, keep an eye out, be sure to get me a copy of the next one. And we will read that and talk about it. We've been talking with Kira Ruda. The next wife is the name of the book. It's a domestic suspense. It's very, very fun read, very quick and fun read. And if you love suspense. So I want to thank you for being with us on right on radio tonight.
Speaker 3 00:22:22 Thank you for having me, Liz. Thank you for reading it and I will get you a copy of who's home. Yes,
Speaker 2 00:22:27 I would love to. Okay. I'm going to let you go and uh, we will move on to our calendar. Thanks a lot. Okay. Thank you. Bye. Bye
Speaker 4 00:22:36 <inaudible>. Hey, how are you doing again? Welcome back.
Speaker 5 00:22:56 Thank you for having me.
Speaker 0 00:22:58 So, uh, this is Ian Lisa and Dr. Lee's kids walking with, uh, Lynn anger about, um, his newest book. It's not absolutely new. It came out in 2020 American gospel and he's going to read as usual, uh, apart from this somewhere. Have you got a section selected that you'd like to read?
Speaker 5 00:23:17 Yeah, I was thinking, how long would you like me to read? Oh, just a couple of minutes. Okay. Yeah, there's a, there's a, um, about a two page section here I could, I could create, um, it starts on page 19. Okay. I'll follow along. Okay. This is, this is a conversation between the two of the main characters, the old man, he knock in his seventies and is calling his son from his hospital bed. Um, he's recently had a cardiac event and um, and uh, he he's, he's telling his son, you know, about what's about this prophecy. That kind of is at the, at the heart of this story.
Speaker 0 00:24:04 We'll get into a synopsis when you're done reading here.
Speaker 5 00:24:07 Yeah. So I'll just read this, uh, section that starts up. Um, bottom of page 19, he stood up in bed now open to the drawer of a nightstand and fumbles for his pocket. Watch who's glow in the dark hands show. 1237. He lifts the bedside phone, sets it on his chest and dialyses on. Let him answer. Great. Peter does on the fourth ring, his voice sounding high and full of something like relief or maybe hope below heater. It's dad. Uh, disappointed. Would you think that was okay. All right. Peter asks, I dropped a bomb earlier and thought I should explain things better. Peter is silent for a moment, then says he wants some advice. Dad, that stuff about August 19th, it makes you sound like a fucking lunatic. Best not to talk about it. You're not rinses. You should hear the whole thing before you write me off Peter Mons or resign them on, but it's an opening nonetheless, and he knocked.
Speaker 5 00:25:17 Doesn't let it pass. He describes walking out on the porch of this prophet yesterday, new sun lighting up the Chrome field across the top of this barn, touching the tall oval is black brands in the Lutheran cemetery to the west past his neighbor's bog farm. He recounts to Peter, the smell of bacon fries. Victor's monotone voice coming to him through the screen a couple of minutes and how he stepped down into the yard to check on the struggling Buckeye tree. That's when you felt a vague tickle in his throat, but no pain whatsoever as his heart spiked to 400 beats a minute. It's lower chambers reduced to an ineffectual quiver. This according to the doctor, first, the ground beneath him disappeared. Then the Buckeye tree, and finally the sky itself, a dark wash, rising up on all sides and lifting him astounded to a Promintory high over the sea.
Speaker 5 00:26:17 What see it was, he didn't know, but the sun was a blood orange hanging above it. Then a voice from behind caused him to turn. And he saw a woman tall as a spruce and wearing them down of water, her hair, a blue flame watch. She said, and count the days, which you know, I did turning in time to see the sun fall like an egg from a table down into the, and blacking out the world one, you know, but it was already roaring up behind him, a bright, booming spotlight and climbing to a Zenith before dropping and disappearing again to then it was back once more rising and falling, which it did again and again and again until a storm arrived, a wind so terrible. The earth pitched like a great mad bull. You know, I could feel beneath in the land itself being urged across a wide drastic thus until finally he was back at his own place in all of this Peter, while I was lying on the ground, more or less dead, you say she had had blue hair.
Speaker 5 00:27:27 This angel is done. Doesn't even try to hide the scorn in this voice. Maybe it was your mom. Grandma remembered the dye. She used to use the way it glowed in the sun. And she always wants to about the end of the world. This was not your grandmother. Peter make fun all you like, but you heard what the doctor said? And I know what I saw. 14 sunsets, 14 days, not 15, not 13. Let me finish please. The sound I heard then coming from an opening in the clouds, it was as if all humanity were present, exercising their lungs. I was standing in the pasture behind the house next to the rock pile with you beside me and others, to a whole crowd of us looking up at the roiling sky, the noise above us, rising to a great shout. Today's the sixth, six plus 14 makes 2019.
Speaker 5 00:28:22 Didn't you say? August 19? Yes, because tonight would have been the first sunset not to mention the 19th of August has always been a significant date for me. It was your mother's and my anniversary of the course, but this isn't about me. Look, what's happening in the world, the middle east, my heavens Armageddon, just around the corner and here at home, what they're doing to Nixon, what he's done to us, you're not tells himself to remain calm. I will only remind you, there is no power, but of God. And the powers that be are ordained of God, that same Paul from the book of Rome, the president was placed where he is and we ought to be praying for him not working against you. Bullshit that you'd rather be deceived than have to think for yourself. I'll stop there.
Speaker 0 00:29:15 That's really good. You've been listening to the anger, reading from his latest book, the, uh, American gospel, uh, he's published two previous novels, undiscovered country, and the high divide, which was a finalist for awards from the Midwest book, sellers association, the society of Midland authors and reading the west. His story's been published in literary journals, such as glimmer train scent and American fiction. He's a graduate of the Iowa writers workshop and has received the James Michener award and Minnesota state arts board fellowship and a Jerome tra travel grant and teaches English shit, the university of Minnesota in Morehead. And once again, welcome back to ride on radio Lynn anger. Um, so very brave of you to, um, write an actual, the actual event of a vision, which you put right into that, uh, very well chosen section. It reminded me a bit of Joseph Smith and that whole story about his division CCS. Where did, where did you derive all this?
Speaker 5 00:30:27 Well, it's, it's a long, long story I wrote. Uh, I wrote a book, um, 35 years ago. The first time I tried to write a novel. Um, and, and it was these characters. Um, but we're, we're at the, at the center of the book, but it was a rambling kind of angst, uh, driven story about fathers and sons. Um, the old man was a religious zealot and the young man was rebelling against him, but there was no real block to hold it together. Um, I exercised probably some, some demons of my own, and I wrote it and realized when I was done that, you know, it wasn't much of a novel. Um, I put it away and I came back to it a few years ago with this idea that, um, it could be animated and made to function as a novel with this notion of the, of the, uh, man's prediction of the rapture, um, that it's eminent. Um, and so that's how, you know, there's a, there's a long backstory to this child, his novel, um, you know, came, came to light. Ultimately
Speaker 0 00:31:51 I've got some other questions and then we'll probably circle back to that. Um, so you've got the backdrop here of Nixon's residue resignation. This is taking the story's taking place in 1974, I guess, all of us of a certain age, remember where we were when that happened. Right. Obviously we're on America. I was just a British kid with a fair cutoff shorts going around America and it was in a dyno and it happened and oh, my, the place exploded with fireworks. Uh, it was, it was really, really interesting. So I did what I did find it very interesting, the way you juxtaposed this resignation with the, with, uh, the, the threat in the early part of the book of, uh, uh, of an Armageddon, um, or the, the end of things. And you, um, you, you draw an interesting distinction in here between the end times and an Armageddon. Can you, can you break that down for us? What exactly, um, is that between the rapture and the final return? Can you, uh, that's fairly a large part of the book. Can you get us to understand that
Speaker 5 00:33:12 A little bit better, you know, in, in, uh, Heartland evangelical circles, there's an obsession with what is called the ranch, the raps it's doctrine, and it's a relatively new doctrine on your didn't really show up in a Christian Church in until probably the 18 hundreds there's, there's a popular doctor. And the notion is that before things really fall apart and, and Christ comes back to, um, you know, eradicate the world and start a new one. Um, and the eschatology of that, there there's, there's this moment before that tribulation period where Christ comes down and it plucks up the faithful. So they don't have to experience all of the horrors that the end world bring. And so, uh, who has been schooled in that kind of eschatological thinking, um, you know, he believes that this dream house, uh, is, is a prophecy. Um, the dream that I, this rent, um, and, and the odd thing is I grew up in, uh, in middle America, um, coming of age in the seventies during a time when we were, we meeting people who went to, um, evangelical churches were being schooled in the idea that the end was imminent.
Speaker 5 00:34:57 I can't tell you the number of sermons I listened to, uh, where we were, we were told, you know, maybe five more years, maybe 10 more as a kid. Um, I took that to heart and I felt very resentful about, Hey, I'm starting out. I want to have a life naturally.
Speaker 5 00:35:28 And so, um, the funny thing is that this just keeps coming round and around, uh, it, um, it doesn't ever away. And about the time that I was deciding that I could use that premise for this or this, um, forgotten novel, I had written, um, there was, uh, I went to the, um, the spring graduation at Minnesota state where I teach, and this was early may of 2011. And as I walked across the street to the building, Alex NIMS, a call, um, there was a big bus parked there, and there was signage on the bus that said, prepare yourself. The end is coming on May 21st, 2011. Um, and this was, uh, sent, there were buses off, sent all across the country by a man named Harold camping who had a, you know, a Christian radio station in California. And he was also into numerology and he believed that the May 21st, 2011 was the going to be the date of the rapture.
Speaker 5 00:36:37 And it was broadcast pretty well. People sold their homes. They gave him their money and people all across the country. And of course I was, I was quite taken up with it because, you know, I knew I knew this scam inside and out. I grew up with it. And so at the time that I saw this, oh, I think I know what I can do with this, this story. Um, I'll, I will allow, I zealot protagonist to have a vision of, of, of the rapture. And there'll be plenty of pilgrims and seekers who show up at last days, ranch, which they do it's novel. So that's the kind of the, you know, the germ.
Speaker 0 00:37:23 So, I mean, of course he was triggering for me the whole branch Davidian thing with David Koresh. And, uh, further back, closer to the time of this story. He had the whole Jonestown thing and they bring a broken rotor all back to me. And you handle the character of EasyKnock, uh, very kindly he's. Um, he he's, uh, he's a sympathetic character and extraordinarily intelligent and is able to, um, garner a terrific rapport, you know, with the people that follow him. It's a small group that they, but they're, they're also fairly intellectually engaged with, with what he's was doing, which I assume is, um, something that happens and, uh, sort of anthropologic anthropologically, I think for, for some reason, this seems to happen and did happen with Jonestown, uh, David Koresh and the rest of it. Didn't it. So that you're definitely following a pattern here, but you, but you don't get revenge on him. You treat him as an equal in this story. I'd really liked that it made to me, but
Speaker 5 00:38:36 I'm glad, I'm glad you did. Um, when I, when I was writing the book, of course, I was thinking jumps down and a really rich and all, all of these, all of these stories of, of communes of one religious communes, where the, um, the leader of the time you, um, usually, uh, it seems like they, they take out, they have to take them out in a violent murder. I mean, that's, that's, that's, that's the story often. Um, and I didn't want to follow that pattern. Um, I have not a lot of, uh, you know, um, and they tend to be kind people, sympathetic people and smart people. They might have, they might have a serious problem with grandiosity. Um, and they're certainly misled. Um, they certainly have a deep need to live a profoundly meaningful life and to give meaning to others, like what, I didn't want him to be a monster because in my experience, people like your mark monsters.
Speaker 5 00:39:42 Um, so yeah, I, it was, it was relatively easy for me to write him because I had, I had living or recently deceased people. Um, in my mind, as I wrote, I was kind of tangentially involved with a couple of groups like this in the seventies and groups, like in, in Minnesota. And they tend to end in two ways. They either end because of money problems or they, and because of, uh, some kind of, uh, sexual, um, trend, that's the way those things in, um, in my, you know, at least as I've observed. Um, so I, I, I did, um, I did try to find a, a way out for him, and that was a little more excited. Well,
Speaker 0 00:40:36 In some ways, that's what I often draw is as a useful distinction for our listeners. Many of whom are writers themselves between literature and popular fiction is in popular fiction. One would tend to create a rather flat character here and have him be a lunatic and, uh, you know, observably. So, um, that's changing a little bit, there's a little bit more sophistication started to creep in, in the last couple of decades, but yeah, this is a real person and the unshakable faith that you're writing about here, which I like you witnessed in various areas all my life, you know, and in London and those people walking around on every corner of these placards, the end is nigh. Um, oh God, everywhere. And I remember talking to one once and saying, well, what happens when it doesn't take place? Which is extremely likely, do you agree and said, yes, I agree. It's unlikely that I'm right. Which made me laugh. And he was very articulate and very well spoken. And I said, well, how do you deal with that? And he says, well, God will know that I had faith. God will know I had faith. So it was still worth it. And it was still something that made sense to him. And it it's, it struck me then it's a kind of mental illness. Yeah. And do you think that's possible this coming mental illness?
Speaker 5 00:42:02 I think in the case of the Narcan, it, yeah. I tried to explain it to myself. Um, and it wouldn't, it seems to me that he probably has it, uh, and I can't diagnose it. I'm not a psychologist, but I think he does have a mental illness. There's also this profound need for control and, you know, transcended meaning, but also control. I mean, what imagined, who believed that, you know, the days when God is going to appear, um, in this world and in fact, this found change, um, that's a remarkable sense of control. And I think people who buy into conspiracy, um, are, are, uh, they're around us all the time, right now, living in a time that is just rife with conspiracy theories. I think it gives people want a sense of control and a sense of being on the inside and understanding what other people don't. I think there's, there has to be a kind of, um, benefits psychologically, emotionally with these people. Again, that's where I'm writing about. And of course it's about the section. So
Speaker 0 00:43:25 When you chose to pull this book out, um, pull it out of the drawer and finish it, which is, I think is often a very wise thing to do is Horace said, you know, put your book away for 10 years, you know, and then you kind of did that. Um, and he folded out w there must've been some impetus for writing it, given what is happening to us right now with extraordinary rise in fake news and the belief in fake news.
Speaker 5 00:43:55 Yeah. Um, when I, I actually finished, um, this, this, uh, version of the book in one 17, so it was about a year into the Trump white house and, um, and the book. Uh, so, you know, I wasn't really thinking about, um, current events when I wrote this draft in 2015 and 17. Um, if I had written it, um, say in 20, 19, 20, 20, I think it would have been a far more political book than it then it is. Yeah. But what, when it came out last fall, um, you know, we're in the middle of a pandemic and we're in the middle of, of, uh, uh, absolute craziness in the election, fake news, you know, the whole, the whole, um, culture personnel, trying to find our way through. Um, it did seem, it did feel timeline that to me, I don't know if it did to most people who read it, but certainly did
Speaker 0 00:45:03 It did shuffle the books, distribution and sales suffered of course, through the, because of the COVID.
Speaker 5 00:45:10 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I do in the past, I've done book tourism and all it was, I did some zoom events, um, but it wasn't a good year for releasing.
Speaker 0 00:45:23 I talk to, I talk to my friends down there at the university of Minnesota press and a lot of very, very depressed publishes where it's a marvelous book. I mean, I'm really sorry that it didn't have as much impact as it could in a, perhaps they could rerelease it or something like that. But the let's talk just a little bit about the character of Peter, uh, got a few minutes left here. Um, and you mentioned earlier in the conversation that you, uh, you know, working on perhaps some stuff out of your life and your relationship with your father, which I think is what we talked about last time with, um, with the other book. Um, tell us a little bit about that in relation to this fanatic father Peter's character.
Speaker 5 00:46:09 Yeah. Um, well I think, um, if there's, if there's an alter ego mind, it's probably Peter, Peter is a writer. Uh, he has a very pollical MySpace father who he has to, he has to Berry really, if he's going to come into his own. Um, I wouldn't say in that way, I'm, I'm, um, my experience was similar. My father wasn't a religious, um, but, uh, but there were enough forces in my life that, um, were you knocked like that, that I can identify with your character? Um, and of course he's a writer. Uh, so, uh, I don't, it's funny, you know, I don't know how other people do it, but, but for me, when I write fiction, it's only years later that I'm able to really understand very well. In what ways my books are autobiographical. I feel like I always come around to seeing how they are, but, um, while I'm writing, I don't think about that. I'm not consciously mind my experience, except in the more, in more generic ways.
Speaker 0 00:47:26 That's a really good, uh, that's a good dancer to that. So here's the, uh, the, the conclusive question that we always ask, you know, what's next? What are you going to do next?
Speaker 5 00:47:38 Well, I, I, right now, I'm, uh, I'm not, I'm not writing books. Um, I'm not kind of in between, um, the pandemic year for me, wasn't a creative year. I know, I know people for whom it wasn't, uh, more power to them. It wasn't for me. So I'm, I'm hoping that as we come out of this national flunk, we've been in, I hope like I I'm, I'm able to find my way into a British project. Um, but right now I'm not writing.
Speaker 0 00:48:15 All right, well, that's a shame and I'm here to ask you, and I know I do it on behalf of all the staff here and all our listeners to write another one soon, because we love your work. And we want to have you back on the show again, as soon as possible. Yeah. Thanks for this wonderful book, American gospel, a novel by Lynn anger. Well done my friend. See you again, next time.
Speaker 2 00:48:43 And now this you are listening to right on radio on KFA 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Annie. I'd like to thank our guests today. Kara Ruda and Lynn anger, plus our listeners without your support and donations cafes would not be possible. You can find more news and info about right on radio at kfh.org/program/right on radio. Plus you can listen to recent episodes on Spotify, iTunes, Google podcast, or anywhere else. Podcasts can be.
