Speaker 0 00:00:03 You are listening to right on radio on cafe 90.3 FM and streaming live on the web at <inaudible> dot org. I'm Annie. Tonight on, right on radio, Dave Fennec we'll talk with Anne Sheldon about her new novel lemons in the garden of love, a compelling exploration into women's rights and reproductive issues. Her debut novel Eleanor's wars won the 2016 Benjamin Franklin gold award for best new voice in fiction. Sheldon is a scholar of women's history and a contributor to important research resources. She lives in Minneapolis
Speaker 1 00:00:35 And I'm Liz old. And the last part of the hour, I will be speaking with Tess Gerritsen. She was a practicing internist and Holly Honolulu with a pair of Harlequin romance novels under her belt. She left Hawaii when island life started feeling claustrophobic and simultaneously left medicine to lean in on writing and parenthood in the 29 years. Since she's knocked out 26 more books, many of them best sellers, romantic suspense, tales, medical thrillers, and the resolve and I'll series of gritty procedurals, all of this and more so stay tuned to write on radio
Speaker 3 00:01:26 And we'll all come back to right on radio. I am Dave Fettig and I'm with Ames, Sheldon, and we are live in the studio. Welcome real person to the studio.
Speaker 4 00:01:34 Thank you, Dave. It's wonderful to be here in Minneapolis. The protagonist of my novel actually, uh, goes to graduate school, two blocks from here, um, in the novel. So here I am, it was exciting
Speaker 3 00:01:49 To read a, a novel with the local references in it. And, uh, we'd like to start with a reading names to get a select a taste for your style. And I think that's going to be useful with this particular novel. Can't wait to talk to you about it, but before we do, please set us up and maybe give us an intro overview of the book and what you're going to read to it.
Speaker 4 00:02:07 Perfect. The story is about a graduate student in women's history at the university of Minnesota in 1977. Her name is Cassie Lyman. She's looking for a topic for her doctoral dissertation on her way to the shotgun wedding of her sister in Massachusetts. She stops at Smith college at this Avaya Smith collection to see what they have there. She comes upon a collection of suffrage cartoons, diaries histories, all sorts of information about a woman named Kate Easton, who in fact is the founder of the birth control league of Massachusetts. She suspects that she might be related to Kate, but she's never heard her. She doesn't know why she's never heard about her. So on her w once she gets to the wedding, she can ask her hers, her relatives, all about Kate Kate story. And Cassie's start to parallel each other in some interesting ways. So we basically have two narrators. We have Cassie, and we have Kate who is represented through her diaries and some letters
Speaker 3 00:03:28 So much to discuss. Please do the reading.
Speaker 4 00:03:31 All right, lemons in the garden of love. I'm going to read from the prologue Smith college library, north Hampton, Massachusetts, August, 1977, the naked woman on the right cross shocks her. Okay? The woman's arms are stretched along a piece of wood and her hands have been affixed to the ends. Her feet are in the process of being tied to a point near the bottom of the cross, by someone whose back is turned to the viewer. The woman's large breasts hang pendulous Lilly and her belly is gravid. She looks as though she is on the verge of delivering a baby off to the side, a man in a suit and top hat smoking a cigar stands next to someone else I may appear to be discussing. The woman is this Cassie Lena, closer to examine the drawing on the table before her, the woman's face has no features.
Speaker 4 00:04:38 And there isn't a signature anywhere on the piece. It appears to have been drawn with India, ink on a heavy sheet of paper. It's so horrible. She wants to look away, but she can't the longer she gazes at it. The tighter her gut. Yes, she was jolted by the electrifying image. When she first saw it, this crucifixion was resting innocently in the middle of a folder, labeled K R E sketches. It was probably drawn by Kate Reed, Easton, a woman Cassie, located in the card catalog at the Sophia Smith collection. Cassie suspects that Kate Easton must be some sort of relative read is her own middle name. And there are other rig reads in her mother's family. Why hasn't she heard of Kate Easton before though? It's typical of her mother, not to mention an ancestor. She doesn't care about history the way Cassie does.
Speaker 4 00:05:40 Of course, it's possible that someone else drew this and Kate, Kate Easton kept it for some purpose, Cassie skims through the rest of the folder, but it's the only drawing of a woman cross. Why would someone make a sketch like this? The artist would have needed a very pregnant woman to use as a model. If she even used a model, what is happening here? Who is the artist? There's so much to figure out. This is what Cassie loves about research. She feels like she's a detective pursuing clues to solve a mystery. She has to stand up and walk around while her stomach flutters with excitement. Cassie had no idea what she'd find at Smith. The number of diaries and letters in the Kate Easton collection is absolutely blowing her mind. Maybe she'll be able to do something with these materials. The tall double hung windows nearby are so covered with Ivy that the light slanting through seems nearly green. Fortunately, there's a brass lamp on the wooden table, but she turned on after requesting several archival Hollander boxes from a staff member.
Speaker 4 00:06:56 But there's no way she'll be able to dig deep right now. The acceleration that was rising in her turns to frustration. When she considered the constraint on her time, she only has two days in north Hampton, the opportunity to leave Minnesota and come east arose suddenly 10 days ago when her mother informed her that her sister, penny, who is pregnant is getting married right away. There wasn't much time for Cassie to plan for this trip. Why didn't penny bother to call her with the news? Was she afraid? Cassie would question her decision to get married. Her sister hasn't even talked to her about the wedding. Hasn't asked Cassie to stand up with her. That hurts. Penny was Cassie's maid of honor tomorrow. She'll take the bus back to Boston to catch up with her mother who will drive them out to Cape Ann. She'd much rather stay here in the library
Speaker 3 00:07:52 That was Ames, Sheldon reading from her new novel, novel lemons in the garden of love. And if you need a better reason to read the novels in that reading from the prologue, I couldn't, I couldn't give you one, uh, beautifully written and you set up some drama intention personally, and, uh, historically, and you give us, you set it up beautifully. That image of a woman crucified at the beginning, uh, is it's impossible not to keep reading so beautifully done. Thank you. I want to jump right to big questions cause I'm worried about time. Yes, me too. Always, especially given, uh, uh, pledge week. Uh, why this book, why now and why by Ames Sheldon.
Speaker 4 00:08:28 Well, um, there, there answers to that question. I was involved in doing, um, writing a, a women's history sources book, uh, in the, in the seventies. And I actually discovered, um, a relative blanche aims, aims. And that's what sent me down, sent me down this path 40 years ago. Fascinating. And then I had a, in which blanche, Ames AME said, write my autobiography. And I didn't that, I don't know how to write an autobiography of someone I've never met. Right? So I started doing research lots and lots of research, and I finished the book. Um, I sent it out. I tried to get it published for 14 years at the time was not right for ripe. Um, when Donald Trump was inaugurated, my response that day was to pull this manuscript back out and to rework it. In the meantime, I had written two other historical novels.
Speaker 4 00:09:37 So I had learned a lot about how to write a novel that would be gripping and historically accurate. Um, the timing seemed to be really right. Unfortunately, the timing is really right, right. Uh, given that abortion rights are under attack in many states, right? The U S Supreme court will be taking up a direct challenge to Roe V. Wade this fall. We must not take our reproductive freedom for granted, right? I am hoping that people who read this book will come to understand what it took, how much work it took for so many years for women to have reproductive rights in Massachusetts. Um, the founder of the birth control league in 1916, it took until 1972 before birth control was legal in Massachusetts. It was the last state to approve birth control, which is amazing when you think of Massachusetts now as a blue state, but the power of the Roman Catholic church, uh, well, it was St. Omar,
Speaker 3 00:10:47 Right? Uh, thank you for that. And, uh, we could talk about that for an hour or so, but I want to segue into, into the craft of writing now, because I have a question for you that relates to what you just described. If someone just tuned in, when you were talking, they might think that you wrote a nonfiction book about these issues, but you haven't written a novel. And it's very difficult. I think, to write a novel about an issue, especially one which the author probably holds all, some passion for, uh, and still write a gripping piece of narrative fiction without getting too pedantic. Uh, and you do that. It can't be easy. I can't imagine that it's easy, but maybe it was easy for you. You want to get a point of view across, you want us to understand something or feel something, but you still gotta keep us interested in the characters. How'd you pull that off?
Speaker 4 00:11:35 Well, it is challenging. Um, you know, if I had a murder in there somewhere that would make it a lot easier, that's probably why I couldn't get it published the first time around. Um, because the focus was so much so evenly on Cassie and Kate, but when I, it, I work reworked it with a developmental editor and she advised me to number one, focus on Kasey, um, and to have lots of things going on in her life, um, that would make it gripping, would make you want to keep turning pages. The, the part of the parts about Kate are certainly historically accurate. That to me, they're very interesting. Um, but they might not be quite as gripping as going through somebody's day to day life and the things that she, the choices she had to make, the challenges she had.
Speaker 3 00:12:31 Well, what's fascinating about that is we have that relationship with her ancestor, her sister and her mother. And so the beautiful thing about, and maybe you introduce these relationships later on, as you were developing the novel, but it works effectively because we get a different sense for the choices she was making or the feelings she was having, the decisions who was going through everything else. And that was nice, uh, for the reader,
Speaker 4 00:12:56 Because we're feeling a lot of things too, as we go along with her. Yes, I hope so. Indeed. Yes.
Speaker 3 00:13:02 So let's talk about Casey, Cassie and Kate, and, uh, a historical novel. Um, and again, it's a bit of a craft question. To what degree did you feel compelled to be historically accurate, which you've mentioned or taking enough history to tell a good story?
Speaker 4 00:13:17 Well, I certainly did take liberties. I took liberties with Kate to the historical character, um, because, so for example, well, no spoilers, but, um, I had to have a reason why Kate was so driven to found the birth control league of Massachusetts. And so I had to give her some backstory that would explain that, um, that backstory is not accurate about my relative blanche Ames names. I changed a lot. Um, so, so yes, I was going for the drama. I was going for the, um, the through line, the arc of the story and, and
Speaker 3 00:13:59 The diary, the journals that's straight out of your mind.
Speaker 4 00:14:02 Yes. The diaries are totally made up. Okay. Totally. Um, now the letters, there are some letters that were more, uh, true to life, but the diary was totally made up. I read a lot of, um, novels and histories and poetry and so on from the period of the 1910s and twenties to get land so that I could create language that would be credible, a little more formal
Speaker 3 00:14:30 In tone. And yeah, that comes through.
Speaker 4 00:14:33 Yep. Yep. Definitely more formal. Whereas with Cassie, I mean, I made a point of using, uh, well, um, w you know, slang from the seventies, uh, blowing her mind. I mean, that sort of thing. And, uh, and the, what her dress, her, her hair, I mean, there were a number of things that were meant to make you believe we were in the 1970s. Well,
Speaker 3 00:14:56 You only have to say one word and it worked for me. And that was Sanka. I mean, when I saw
Speaker 4 00:15:00 That, I thought this woman is, you know, she's either done a research or she's
Speaker 3 00:15:04 Had some sink in her day, but she had me at Sanka. So I believe do I want to read a quote from Cassie? She says, when we talk about our personal feelings and discover our commonalities as women, it can be very empowering. What do you want us to take from that absent reading the novel, of course. Um, what does that tell us about Cassie?
Speaker 4 00:15:26 Well, she she's, um, she's growing into a feminist. Uh, she got married three years ago. She was a fairly traditional wife initially. Um, but, um, during graduate school, she becomes part of a consciousness raising group of women. And that really is important to her. It ends up changing her in some ways. Um, and she was trying to bring her mother and her grandmother and her aunt sort of along talking about, uh, trying to get them to talk about things they cared about too, in that passage.
Speaker 3 00:16:08 Yeah. I'm going to remind our readers. We are speaking with Ames, Sheldon about her new novel lemons in the garden of love. It is pledge week here at cafe I, and, uh, you love right on radio. We are a special program on a very special radio station. So show us your love with, Hey, five bucks, 10 bucks, or, you know, even 50, we'll take it all. And, uh, and thank you profusely. Uh, we love you guys, uh, and now back to aims. So, um, you know, I thought of Mary Gordon when I was reading you and that's a compliment, right? Thank you. She's special. Yeah, that's a compliment. Um, and I've read Mary Gordon, a few books and, um, some of her later work, but earlier stuff too, was just really special at the time. It felt like to me, I'm a guy. Um, the stories that would tell about women, but not necessarily for women. So speak to me about who you were writing this for, you know, a guy like me, uh, Andy out there in the lobby waiting for you, uh, you know, Liz in any here who you should read this book.
Speaker 4 00:17:04 Well, I hope I hope every well, every war will. Of course. Um, you know, I was particularly thinking about the women who were born after Roe V Wade. Um, those are my number one potential readers are the, the, the people that I'm really hoping will read this book, because I think it could change their minds about how involved they might get in the fight for reproductive freedom. Um, on the other hand, I did mean it also to be a book that would be interesting to men, to my husband. I read the whole thing to him and got his feedback. Um, there are some men male characters, uh, who, of course, some of them are, um, you have to have some guys in this thing. Right. And, and, uh, some, I, I loved them. Yeah. It's forgot. It's for guys too. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 00:17:52 Who's more important to Cassie her sister or her mother in her life, her mother,
Speaker 4 00:17:59 Even though her mother is bossy and difficult. Uh, she's somehow more powerful, more impactful. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:18:09 If this novel were written in the early days of the women's movement, let's call it the modern women's movement. Not Kate's Cassie's. Yup. Would it come out the same, do you think? Would, uh, I, I'm not sure what I'm asking, but it feels really raw and real today. Um, which is good. Um, what do you want to do with that?
Speaker 4 00:18:31 I agree. I started writing it in 1978, so it was, it was a very real and raw and current, uh, when I first started. And I'm, I'm glad to hear that some of that passion is still in there. I hope a lot of it is still in there.
Speaker 3 00:18:47 Right. Um, I have a lot of questions about research and we've, you've talked some about that. Um, take us back to when you were doing that book, uh, again, and, um, where ideas may have generated, um, to come to this story. You mentioned the dream, you mentioned blanche, they have that name, right? Yup. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 4 00:19:08 So the women's history sources survey was a book that was, um, it was a huge reference book that was created here at the university of Minnesota funded by the national endowment for the humanities. There was a staff of maybe 12 people, uh, putting together descriptions of manuscript, collections of primary sources from historical societies and research libraries all around the country. Um, the project went on for three years. It was more than a million dollars. It was published by our biochar. And that's what really turned me on to women's history, was being involved in that I was actually hired to write it, edit and, and index it. Um, by the end we had six writers and, um, two indexers and we all edited. Um, it, it was a huge project at the social welfare history archives at the U, um, under Clark chambers and Andrea hinting. Um, it was a great project. There was one, two men on the project, uh, involved, but it was very much a, uh, a feminist time. I mean, women's history didn't really hardly exist at that point as a, as a field of study. And so I think we all had a feeling of, um, well, passion certainly about it and mission, right? So, I mean, that's actually part of what enlivened my diary entries in, in the section about the suffrage movement, w Kate's involvement in the suffrage movement, right?
Speaker 3 00:20:35 You use a term, which I did not encounter until grad school. And I went to grad school late, which is new woman, which is a term that came into use in the late 19th century. Right. This was a new, a new woman. Uh, tell us about that. If re listeners who don't know what that term means and where it comes from in history, and then I'd like you to bridge that or dotted line to the new woman to today, what a new woman means today to you, but let's go back and explain what new woman and that movement, if you will meant back in the late 19th century.
Speaker 4 00:21:03 Well, I think a new woman at the time was a woman who believed that women should be able to vote that they, um, should have some autonomy. That being simply a wife and mother was not all that women were about. Um, so I think the suffrage suffragists were new women. Uh, the birth control advocates were new women, uh, the equal rights amendment, um, women were new women. Um, and of course the equal rights amendment still hasn't been passed. But anyway, so, and, and, but I think a lot of the new women at the time in the late 19th century were seen as, um, blue stockings. I, I, you know, they were, what do you mean by that? Well, they, they, uh, they often didn't get married. They were maybe upper class or middle to upper upper class. Uh, they could afford not to get married. Yes, yes, yes, exactly. Exactly. So those were the women who were really pushing things forward.
Speaker 3 00:22:09 Um, yeah, unfortunately we're not in an economic choice, survival choice for many women at the time, of course. Right. And new women, I'm sorry to jump in, but this idea of a new woman showed up a lot in cultural references to, in novels and whatnot. It became more of a popular idea. And I raised this to, and then I'm going to give it back to you. But because I think today readers can think that the type of feminism you're describing didn't happen till the seventies or something, and it's been going on for a long time. And that's a nice thing about this book too. It reminds us it's been going on for a while.
Speaker 4 00:22:39 Yes, exactly. That's absolutely true. Uh, I mean, there was a women's movement in the 1910s twenties, and then there was the seventies and, and it is still percolating. There's maybe a new, new versions of new women now. I mean, I think let's talk about that. What does that mean today, do you think? Well, I think it means a woman who has a job who, uh, maybe married or not, uh, who may have children or not to hopefully, well, who practices birth control. Um, uh, an independent woman I think really is, is what it gets down to.
Speaker 3 00:23:12 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, out there in radio land, it is Ames Sheldon from our neck of the woods. Lemons in the garden of love is the novel. It, this interview will be on our website for a couple of weeks and then on our podcast. So please give a listen, send it around. Um, however that works in the social media land and let people know about this. We do have to go, we're going to chat a little bit about the value of community member supported radio because it's pledge week, but yes, one more.
Speaker 4 00:23:40 Can I just say one more thing? My favorite quote from the book, it comes from Kate, why these men mind their own business telling women that they can have birth control. Thank you for getting that in
Speaker 3 00:23:54 Sheldon, everyone. Thank you very much. And now this
Speaker 1 00:24:20 Hi, is this Tess? Yes, it is great when it comes to ride on radio on, thank you so much for taking the time to deal with us. We're talking with Tess Garrison author of many, many, many books. And, uh, currently the latest book is Tuesday, which I think, uh, came out on July 1st.
Speaker 5 00:24:39 Yeah. And it's the very first book I've ever done a collaboration on. So
Speaker 1 00:24:44 That's one thing I was going to ask you about. I think we'll talk about process first and then I'm worried about spoilers. So we'll talk about a little bit about the book at the end, if that's all right with you. Uh, how did you meet Gary braver?
Speaker 5 00:24:57 I've known my co-author Gary braver for about a quarter of a century. We're both novelists. Um, he does more horror section and, um, we were at a Christmas party a couple of years ago, uh, in a Boston bookstore and got to talking about the me too movement. Uh, and I, I said, wouldn't be interesting to have a novel that explores the gray area of the me too movement, where it's more of a, he said, she said, uh, situation, and wouldn't it be fun to write a book where the man writes the male point of view and the woman writes the female point of view, and we see whether or not these two different point of views actually tell completely different stories. So that's how the idea came about. The only thing we agreed on at the beginning was that the young woman would end up dead. And, um, did he do it, uh, even we didn't know. So the me too movement situation is that he's a married university professor and his lover is a student.
Speaker 1 00:25:54 Ah, okay. Um, you have a very interesting process of writing with Gary. Why don't you talk about that?
Speaker 5 00:26:02 Um, well the, the process was it after we talked about, but the, the setup would be a university professor falls in love with his student, um, which is against all the rules. He not only does he break his marital vows, he's not supposed to be doing this as a teacher. So this could, this could destroy his life. Um, and then we, we kind of went our separate ways. I came home to Maine. He lives in, um, outside Boston and a couple of weeks later, I got a chapter on via email from him. He said, this is my first chapter. And it was the story of how professor Dorian meets his student Terran. And I thought, oh boy, now I guess I have to write the next chapter. So I, the next chapter featuring the college student and it bounced back and forth purely by email.
Speaker 5 00:26:48 Um, he would write a chapter. I would write a chapter, his character would do something my character would, would react. Um, and we just kind of tormented each other this way, or at least our characters tormented each other. Uh, and that's how the story all, all got together. And then we, the funny thing is we had no real outline. So we didn't know who the killer was until about two thirds of the way to the story. I was a kind of a chaotic process, but, um, in the end we had a first draft and it was in chronologic order where it starts off with them meeting, having the affair, and then she dies. And then what happens next? Well, our editors said, I love the female detective who comes into the story two thirds through to investigate the murder. Is there any way to move that detective to the front of the book? So, um, that's how I ended up playing around with the timeline. We actually opened up with the, the death of the young woman, and then we'd go back and see how it, how we led up to this point. It's I like to think of it as we come across a train wreck, but we don't know how that train got wrecked. So we go back in time to watch the, the events that led up to it.
Speaker 1 00:28:00 It's definitely a train wreck. And that's one question I have about the story. Um, professor Dorian and Taran, they started out being pretty sympathetic and likable a little bit less for Terran, but, but, uh, professor Dorian certainly, but then they keep making bad decisions and they don't end up so likable towards the end. I hope that doesn't spoil anything. Uh, and I'm wondering, uh, how you, if you wanted them to be sympathetic all the way through, or if it was part of your idea that, uh, that they would sink into,
Speaker 5 00:28:36 We wanted them, we wanted them to be like real human beings who are flawed, who make mistakes and then try to correct everything to save their own lives. Um, and I think that as the book goes on, as you said, they start off, we understand them. We understand that these are, you know, basically, um, sane and normal people. Um, but as the book goes on, we start to peel back the layers of the onion and realize that Taryn is a lot more complex and maybe a lot more scary than we thought of at first. Um, I think that, um, Gary had the harder job of writing professor Dorian because this is a man who makes mistakes and, um, he has to make him somehow, uh, relatable. We have to understand that everything he does after he has this, this brief affair with this woman, which is out of temptation out of weakness, um, he still has a moral compass. So the idea is that these are, these are real people. Um, we probably all know somebody like Terran, even though we don't like her and would be better off not having someone like that in our lives, but we know people like this.
Speaker 1 00:29:48 Um, I'm wondering if you and Gary ever disagreed about this, the story and the direction that it was going, or, uh, so how did you come to a agreement in situations where you disagreed or did you never disagree?
Speaker 5 00:30:04 Oh, no, we disagreed a lot. That's what made this book actually harder than anything I've ever written. So though this book took long twice as long as any of my, um, my solo books, um, because two heads, um, and not, I mean, they're not necessarily better than one. They sometimes want to head off in different directions. So, um, we had disagreements about who the killer was. Um, we had disagreements about, um, just what kind of a person Jack is, um, professor Dorian. And I have also, we had disagreements about, um, how men see women now. I don't, I don't know that cause I'm not a man. And one thing I learned and part of the project was to see how men and women view situations differently or view each other differently. Um, so when I saw the first chapter of, of Jack seeing Karen, who's a beautiful woman.
Speaker 5 00:31:00 I mean, she's sexually attractive as well as being brilliant. Um, I think Gary's character went right to the physical, went right to, you know, noticing her figure, noticing this, noticing that. And I said to him that is a little bit, um, disconcerting for women to know that men don't look at us or like us because of our personalities, that their eyes first go somewhere else. And maybe that's true. Maybe that's the way men do think of women, but when you're a woman reader, it immediately puts you off this, this character puts you off, you know, the way men think. Um, and I think it's, um, it's probably realistic what he wrote. Certainly my husband backed him up and said, that is the way men think. Um, but it's not necessarily the way I want my readers, um, to think of Jack. So he had to tone that down a bit, that sort of awareness of, of her attractiveness,
Speaker 1 00:31:54 This book does deal with issues of attraction and, uh, teachers, uh it's the teacher is a male and, uh, he gets involved with a female and, and why those, the me too movement and everything I'm curious, I'm just curious how you think it might be different if the teacher was the female and the, um, student was a male.
Speaker 5 00:32:19 Um, well, legally speaking, there is no difference. Um, it's still, it's it, you're still violating, um, your, you know, what you're supposed to be doing your ethics, um, in, in the situation. And, um, it's a very delicate situation. Um, and that's why we were, we were a little concerned. I mean, we don't, we know it's a thing, but, um, it also helps to remember that historically this kind of relationship is it's all through fiction it's um, uh, in fact gone girl is about, is about the same kind of a situation. Um, you know, an affair between a teacher and his student, um, and what his wife does about it. Uh, so it's, it's not a new situation. And it's, as Gary likes to say, we are putting new wine in an old bottle. What we are, what we are really focusing on is the guilt.
Speaker 5 00:33:10 The fact that this, this man is so guilty, what will he do? How far will he take it? And also looking at, um, looking at it in light of old literature mythology, um, what, uh, the class that Jack is teaching when Taren meets him is a class called, um, star-crossed lovers. And it's about literary lovers through history all the way back to, um, ju um, Medea and Jason, uh, to NAS and queen Dido. All these are tragic, tragic endings, and a lot of them have to do with men abandoning women. Um, so that is part of the theme is, is what is Taryn going to do here? She's reading about all these classic heroines who were abandoned issue, going to be like Medea, who, um, whose husband Jason abandoned serve for another woman. Well, Medea takes out her revenge by killing the other woman and murdering her and Jason's children.
Speaker 5 00:34:05 That that is the ultimate revenge. Then there's queen Dido, who is abandoned by NAS, who just sails off to glory. And what does she do? She builds her own funeral Pyre and climbs the board and stabs herself. And as her body is being consumed by the flames, um, an AST sails away, he can see the flames, he can see his lover's body being destroyed and he sails away. So, um, my character Taron has these, these ancient literary figures that she can choose. She can choose to be a Medallia, or she can choose to be a queen Dido.
Speaker 1 00:34:41 And that's kind of part of the, uh, end of the story or the middle of the story is, is her decision about whether to be this or that? Um,
Speaker 5 00:34:53 Right,
Speaker 1 00:34:53 Right. Um, wait a minute. I think what I'm going to do is, uh, talk a little bit about her membership drive, if that's all right with you. Uh, we are speaking with Tess Garrison author of, uh, many, uh, novels, mystery novels, and, um, award winning and published all through to the world. Uh, I believe it was 40 different languages that the, that it's been translated into. And it's pretty amazing. And I want to mention, uh, that right on radio, uh, does these interviews, we do interviews with brand new, uh, authors. We do interviews with emerging authors who have published a book or two, and we get to do interviews with people like Tess Gerritsen, who, uh, is, um, very well known and, and, uh, uh, just, uh, an amazing author in her own. Right. And, uh, we, um, we enjoy doing that. We enjoy bringing these authors to you, uh, talking some about process, talking about story.
Speaker 1 00:36:00 Uh it's um, well, it's cafe.org. It's right on radio. And, uh, we hope that, uh, you get things out of it when you listen to us and, uh, maybe, uh, get an idea for a book or two. I certainly can, uh, uh, recommend choose me. Uh, it's a thrilling book. It's an interesting book. It has, uh, it deals with a lot of different issues as we've talked about already. And that's why to listen to right on radio is because these are the kinds of things that we do, and we have wonderful authors should take time out of their life to call us up and talk to us. And, uh, so if you liked this, give us, uh, uh, become a member of cafes. Uh, you can do
[email protected]. It's very simple as the donate now button, and there's a, a bunch of, um, um, uh, things that lead you through how to do a membership, uh, contribution, and a thank you test for allowing me to take the time to do that. Uh, we, uh, we are so happy to have you here with us tonight. Um, so back to the interview, I, um, you have written standalones and you have written series, and I'm wondering how, if the different process writing the different ideas and, and, uh, uh, if there's one that you enjoy better than the other, or how you feel about those two ideas.
Speaker 5 00:37:36 Well, the advantage of a series is number one, you know, your characters. So, um, you can dive right into the story and, and focus more on the plot. Then the development, you have a major characters who have been, who've been developing for the last 10 books. You know, them very, very well. The advantage of a standalone is that it feels so fresh. It feels like an experiment. Every time I, every time I write a book that has brand new characters are brand new direction, um, I like choose me. It feels like taking a risk, and I love that. I love being able to try something completely new
Speaker 1 00:38:10 Sort of fly.
Speaker 5 00:38:14 Yeah. And then you're, you're dealing with not only new people in your stories, but also, um, it may be in a different genre. I mean, in my 30, 30 book career, I've written science fiction and historicals and romance. And so it's, um, and I'm getting older, you know, I'm, I'm getting to the point where I think if I don't write that book, now, I may never write it. So get the stories down that I really care about now. Um,
Speaker 1 00:38:40 What was in the book choosing the, and working with Gary, what was the biggest challenge between, uh, well, the two of you been also just in terms of the story and how you wrote it out,
Speaker 5 00:38:54 Uh, voice, I think voice was difficult. We, I mean, we didn't want to have voices that were way far apart because that would have been jarring. Um, so I think he had, he had to tailor his voice a little bit more to mine. I tend to write very, um, very, very crisply and to the point, and he's much more likely to spend time thinking about things or to have his characters do a lot of, um, uh, more internal dialogue. So, um, I think he might have tightened up his, his, um, technique a little bit. The other thing that was really difficult was at the very end we had this first draft that was, that needed to be chopped up and re ordered according to a timeline. And that was, that was my job. So I, I ended up doing the final edit and just, it felt like putting together the pieces of a Swiss watch. Uh, the gears all had to fit together. I had to put stuff from later in the story, uh, to the beginning of the story, but I could not give away things. So that was the hard part. Isn't it not giving away spoilers in your own book? Um, so yeah, that was, it was, it was technically, you know, the storytelling was fine, but the technical aspects of the editing that was really, really hard.
Speaker 1 00:40:06 And the nice thing about this book, which I really appreciate when mysteries are this way is it's not that you're necessarily surprised by the end. Uh, but what happens is it's, it's not obvious, but it is within a, what's the word I'm looking for it, it's not, uh, uh, do S Deus ex Mokena where all of a sudden it all becomes clear and, you know, someone that you never even heard of is the murder. It doesn't work that way. And I, I always appreciate that one. Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:40:39 Yeah. Well, you know, I think the point of this of a, of a good mystery is not to be surprised. The point is it feels inevitable when you find out the answer. And really this is not, I didn't, I think Jay, uh, um, Gary and I didn't feel like the point of this was to surprise people with the identity of the killer. The point was really to see how everything gets worse and worse and in a way it's, it's, um, every professor's nightmare to watch your life fall apart and, and, and to ride this horrible rollercoaster with him, I think more than anything, this feels, um, more like one of these, what's the worst that can happen. Oh my God. It's about to happen.
Speaker 1 00:41:22 Um, do you have a favorite book? I hate to, you know, it's like your children, you know, what's your favorite? I
Speaker 5 00:41:29 Know, oh, I tell you my favorite books funding it strangely enough are the ones that really don't sell as well. But I think they're my best books. Um, my favorite one was, is gravity. Um, and if that's the science fiction novel that I mentioned, um, I, it's still, I look back and I still think I'm proudest of that book, both because it was the biggest challenge of my life. And also because I just, I just think the plot was so fascinating. Um, but because it's science fiction, it just did not sell as well. Um, and the other book I really love, um, is, uh, is playing with fire. And that's a book that's set during world war II in Italy. Um, and it's about music. It's about a musician who disappears in world war II and leaves behind this, this haunting piece of music that turns out to be possibly a dangerous thing that, uh, 70 years later. So, you know, those two things were sort of off the wall. They had nothing to do with the books that everybody knows me for, but they remained my favorites.
Speaker 1 00:42:31 It kind of remind you of, uh, what it's like to be a new author. I would guess, you know, the excitement.
Speaker 5 00:42:37 Yes. And it's also like, wait, wait, just look at my baby, my beautiful baby. And everyone listens, no, no, I want to go read your series novels. I mean, oh yes.
Speaker 1 00:42:46 Rizzoli and Isles, that became a TV, uh, program, which I've actually watched. So I didn't realize that it was you until I was reading your bio. And then I was like, oh my goodness.
Speaker 5 00:42:59 Yeah. Yeah, those are my girls. It's so funny because when I started writing the resilient L series, um, it started off with just Rizzoli. And then, um, the second, uh, Isles was introduced in the second book and I never intended to write a series. Um, it started off as a standalone and then it was like, there was another book with a character. And then by the third book, I realized I had a series, but you could not have, I mean, I could not have predicted that that would actually be the most successful, um, set of books that I've written. Um, because every book that you start off writing, you love, you start off loving these books. And if you didn't love the story, you wouldn't finish them. Wouldn't finish writing them.
Speaker 1 00:43:39 Yes. Um, well, let's talk a little bit about the story or a little bit more about the story. And I'm curious about, uh, uh, your feelings about professor Dorian. I kind of felt like he was, uh, a very intelligent man who was kind of bumbling antihero idiot. That's the same time. And I'm wondering if you
Speaker 5 00:44:01 Feel that way too. I feel that he is a very flawed man. Um, but you know what the world is full of flawed people that we wanted to. Um, and, and when, when he falls, he he's, he's married. He loves his wife. His wife is very busy and has doesn't have enough time for him. Uh, and unfortunately, I mean, I think, I can't remember the latest statistics, but it's like 50% of married people have an affair. So it's not that he's, uh, you know, unusual. It's just that, um, he's unusual in that he's taken advantage of, well, his situation, which is he's, he's, he's had an affair with a student that's, what's unusual about this particular affair. And what's also unusual is that this affair can not only wreck his marriage. It can completely destroy his career. So this is, I mean, he's playing with fire and in a weak moment, she comes to his hotel room during a conference and she shows up with a bottle of wine and he's, you know, he's frustrated about other things. And there she is. So, um, what, what Gary did a good job of, I think in that particular scene is showing how easy it is to mold the temptation, you know, a moments, weakness, a couple of glasses of wine. Um, and the next thing, you know, you have done something that will destroy your life. Um, so that was, you know, kind of the idea of it's writing a book about mistakes and about the consequences and how do we build our lives again, after that.
Speaker 1 00:45:34 And I also, uh, I started thinking that one person was the victim, and then I got to the idea that the other person was the victim. And then I realized that both of them were victims at both of them were, uh, predators as well. You know, and, and I'm wondering if that's the way you intend it to be.
Speaker 5 00:45:53 Absolutely. Um, you know, it's funny how many people say, oh, I don't like tear and I thought, um, issue, are you supposed to like the stalker? I mean, why do you think you have to like her just because she's dead. Uh, so I think it's a question that comes up in book that we included in our book group questions, which is, is Taren a victim? Or is she a villain or is she both? Um, because there's, there's no, again, there's no black and white here. These are people, uh, written in shades of gray and they both do things that they shouldn't, and they both suffer for it, but then they both have aspects of them that are admirable.
Speaker 1 00:46:33 Well, it's a wonderful, wonderful book. It's so I couldn't put it down. I read it in one night, about four o'clock in the morning I finished it, which is, which is, uh, in part it's how I live. But also it's, uh, it's exciting when you read a book like that. And when you find a book that really pulls you in, so, uh, that I would say about choose me, is that, uh, it is, uh, it pulls you in, there's no way you can read it without getting, uh, both excited and kind of horrified at the scene.
Speaker 5 00:47:08 Yeah, I know it's, it is a little bit about, as I say, it's, it's every man's worst nightmare. That's what we tried to set out to do as a, you know, it's, uh, how bad can things get and we make them bad, especially
Speaker 1 00:47:21 It's every teacher's nightmare. I think that they might fall in that way.
Speaker 5 00:47:26 Yeah. And I should also mention that there is a character, which is what I wrote, um, in my voice, because it's female, as I, as I say, if, if the character has an X, X, you know, it has X, X chromosomes. And I wrote that point of view, um, and that is the Boston detective, uh, Frankie Loomis, who is, uh, what I love about Frankie. She, she shows up in the very first chapter is that she's not the usual cop that you see. Um, she's, middle-aged, she's a single mom. She's got two teenage girls who are quite challenging. And when she walks onto this, this death scene of a young college student, yeah. She has a secret power. Frankie. Luma's the secret powers that she's a mother and she knows when something is not right.
Speaker 1 00:48:15 Well, I'm afraid we've run out of time. We've been talking with Tess Gerritsen author of choose me and many, many, many other books, wonderful book. I highly recommend it. Uh, do you have anything to finish up with?
Speaker 5 00:48:27 Yeah. Well, all I can say is I have, um, another resulting Isles book coming out in 2022 called listen to me. It is a book number 13 in the series. Excellent.
Speaker 1 00:48:39 I'm looking forward to it. Uh, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, thank you for, uh, understanding our membership drive. Uh, it's very important to, uh, trust to do that, so, yeah.
Speaker 5 00:48:51 Oh yeah. And good luck with that. I hope I hope that that is gangbusters.
Speaker 1 00:48:56 Thank you. Thank you. Uh, okay. Well thanks a lot. And I'm going to let you go, but I really appreciate your, uh, spending some time with us tonight. Well, thank you. Good night. Good night.
Speaker 3 00:49:17 You are listening to right on radio on the coolest radio station in town. K F a I 90.3, FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Dave FEDEC. I'd like to thank our guests tonight, Ames, Sheldon, and Tess Gerritsen. Plus of course you, our listeners, without your support and donations, K F AI would not be possible. And on that note, Annie and Liz, we are very appreciative of all of our members. Aren't
