Speaker 1 00:01:12 You are listening to right on radio on cafe 9.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Josh Weber. And tonight on tonight's program, Dave interviews, Ingrid Anderson about her new book of poetry. Y motor poems of a midwife Anderson has practiced as a home at birth nurse midwife for over 20 years. In addition to her poetry, she is a healthcare activist at founder of related nonprofits, and she lives in Wisconsin. That's okay.
Speaker 2 00:01:41 <laugh> and I am Dave, who will be interviewing Ingrid soon in the last part of the hour, O cots will have a discussion with, we are married, a theater company run by Jay Eisenberg and Shelby Richardson about their upcoming show. Big game. Big game is a live fever dream of a televised survivalist game show where one Intrepid adventurer turned amateur filmmaker faces off with the elements will a lifetime of preparation be enough. And with a life changing sum of money on the line, will they come out on top or get topped by nature itself, all of this and more so stay tuned to write on radio. Welcome Ingrid.
Speaker 3 00:02:29 I'm happy to be here. Thank you so much for inviting
Speaker 2 00:02:31 Me thrilled to have you here. And how did my colleague Josh do on the pronunciation of your book?
Speaker 3 00:02:37 I'm glad you brought that up. I was very impressed. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:02:42 Yor mood. That's what I would say, but, um, so welcome to the program. Um, Ingrid, uh, congratulations on the book, um, out from holy cow, press thanks up in Duluth. One of our favorites. Um, that's right. We love that's right. We do. Um, so Ingrid, before we start talking about your poems and here's some of your poems, tell us how you came to poetry, if you would. I'm always curious about poet's relationships, relationship with poetry. Did they love poems early? Did they come to 'em at a certain point in their lives for a certain reason? Why are you a poet?
Speaker 3 00:03:22 I think I've always been a poet. I, I, you know, for me, everything is poetry and, and, um, you would motor is a, a terrific word for what I do both as a poet and as a midwife, both are practices that I feel have been in me my whole life. And, and you'll hear in, in the subject of the poetry, why, why that may be true. Um, and I began actually writing poetry when I was very young, but it, it, that to me is more of a, of a breathing <laugh> and is seeing and a listening in a way of being in the world. Um, there's a great saist in the, from the New York times. Um, Eliza Gatz, I think is her name who says poetry is liquid and the poem is the vessel. I came to poems late <laugh>, but I feel I've always been swimming in that current of poetry. Um, midwifery is very conducive to that, of course. And, and so as I got older, um, and also was making a living, <laugh> had a good day job. Um, I turned, uh, to, to writing poems and, and really got started on a, on a sabbatical that I took.
Speaker 2 00:04:48 Huh. Uh, yeah. Midwifery seems like it is made for poetry. It it's, it's, it's like a living metaphor. Right. Um, yeah. And we're gonna get a, uh, taste of that. Um, but before we do, I'd like to have a reading to get things started, but before we do, do you want to tell us a little bit about, so we all know what we're talking about when we say, and it's midwifery as opposed to wifery go ahead.
Speaker 3 00:05:12 Yeah, both are correct. Um, I'm trying to bring you to motor into the English language because I, I just think it's the best word ever, um, midwife, uh, means with women. So, you know, it's a model of care that has always been, um, uh, centering the, the pregnant person, um, and that, and that person's, uh, health and wellbeing and whole whole experience. Um, so your motor goes even beyond that, in that U means, uh, earth in Swedish motor is mother, of course mm-hmm <affirmative> and UD is a, is a word that can mean also, um, dirt and soil and land. So it's, it's the planet all the way down to the dirt and what's in it. And that has the significance for midwives is an ancient word. And dirt was, is actually something that, um, even clients of mine to this day who don't have access to prenatal, um, vitamins, for example, they know what dirt's good. They literally eat dirt. We have a word for it. It's called PICA, but this has been done everywhere forever. Mm-hmm <affirmative> because pregnant people have cravings and they have cravings, um, often for what, what their body is lacking or needing. And that was in dirt. So we don't really know where the word you would motor originates from how, how midwives came to be called earth mothers, but it could be as literal as that. And it's the word used in not only Swedish, but Danish and Norwegian as well.
Speaker 2 00:06:48 I, I noticed that when I looked the word up this afternoon, I love the earth mother you're the motor might be a tough, tough one to bring in. I applied you for doing that. Yeah. <laugh> how about, how about just earth, mother, Ingrid. Do you think that could work?
Speaker 3 00:07:01 Yeah, that's a little too. Woo. Woo.
Speaker 2 00:07:03 I know, but okay. You woo.
Speaker 3 00:07:06 And in French it'ss F and that's that, that means wise woman that sets the bar a little too high. <laugh> I like your, I like your motor. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:07:14 It's a lovely word. Thank you for that explanation. And that background with that. How about a reading?
Speaker 3 00:07:21 Sure. So, so the book is sort of a, an arc, um, uh, in sections mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, daughter, midwife mother, and then the last two sections really are about aging aging as a mother, as a midwife and, and as a partner. Um, uh, so I'll, I'll just start with a good picture of, of what I'm lucky enough to witness, um, on a regular basis. It's the poem is called Nova Stella. Okay. For Lila dedicated to the person, um, about it is Nova Stella from the out of the blue lull that can be fall hard, labor, the owing sleep. I could tell that she was fully dilated and pronounced her complete where upon she browsed turned completely dilated eyes on me and said with blinding depth and more love than I have ever seen, no one ever told me that before and reaching down through a flash and burst of Milky call, she caught a daughter
Speaker 2 00:08:33 That's beautiful. That's Nova Stella Ingrid at Anderson reading from her latest collection of poems. You heard a motor, um, this poem reminds me of a reaction I had. Many of these poems are very raw. They're visceral, uh, physically personal. Uh, we feel like we're, um, you know, observing and part of something intensely private. Um, these experiences come, these poems come from experiences. I'm assuming, um, H how little are they, are, are you, um, taking these experiences and, uh, turning them into something else? Do you see what I'm asking you? They're not literally pieces of journalism, right,
Speaker 3 00:09:18 Right. For, um, uh, you know, uh, truth in fact, can, are sometimes two different things. So, so sometimes, um, the, the, the poem, a, a poem, um, captures, uh, a truth in ways that, uh, aren't necessarily, um, factual in their specifics or, um, details. And I, I wanted this, uh, poem to this poem is actually quite factual <laugh>. Um, and, and, and what is not said though, but is, uh, uh, very, um, uh, loud to me in the poem is that, that it captures the midwifery, um, uh, uh, practice or, or, or model of supporting a person who is in labor and birthing, for example, um, I, I, midwives don't need to do a lot of internal exams. We don't have a strict, um, one size fits all formulaic way of approaching, uh, labor we'll, listen and watch, and just do enough of this to be experts in knowing, uh, where progress is at without these invasive kind of, um, impositions. And so for me to look at her, um, and know that she was fully dilated is not magical. Um, but it's, it's a, it's a, for those of, you know, those of us who know the difference between a, uh, uh, medically Western medically supported labor and a, and a, a, a more traditional midwifery supported labor, that would stand out. Another thing is the fact that she's just standing, she's not in a bed flat on her back, but she's actually standing and catching her own baby as she stands. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:11:25 Yeah. And if you're interested, I have a contrast of a poem in the, describing the birth of my own mother.
Speaker 2 00:11:33 Yes.
Speaker 3 00:11:34 I should say the birth of myself. <laugh> yes. Um, right. And my, my mother's experience.
Speaker 2 00:11:41 Well, you teased us with that. Are you gonna read that for us?
Speaker 3 00:11:44 I would love to it's called birthday.
Speaker 2 00:11:47 Okay.
Speaker 3 00:11:49 Um, and, uh, and, uh, this is, uh, when I'm grown, of course, and my mother's an old woman, but, um, but the body remembers so birthday, a birthday should be for a mother as much as for a child. I say, and kick myself, opening her card, made waitress immigrant pregnant with dreams. As much as child, you were pinned like an insect on your back, leather straps around your ankles, wrists, your mind, and the grips of an injected amne amnesiac and other women's screams. I see that she forgot my age this year, but fault lines across her blameless face. And the familiar fetal fists say the body remembers millimeter by millimeter fear winded down. Scarping your inner sacrum buckling your bridge of pubic synthesis. Rifting your screaming heel spines until a God. You never believed in delivered you. And I was whisked to another room. Nurses bound your mammal chest saying breastfeeding is barbaric. I take up her bald hands like gifts in mind unwrap the still strong fingers, unbind the crimp thumbs,
Speaker 2 00:13:17 Beautiful birthday, two words birthday read by Ingrid Anderson. The body remembers that's a, a beautiful line in the, in the, in a beautiful poem, your bald, your bald hands. I started circling hands. That was a third incidence in three poems in a row. Um, and, um, I don't have a question except at hands of physicality touching, uh, is, is very much, um, should we call it a theme or just a presence, um, in, in your poetry, it was for me as a reader.
Speaker 3 00:13:54 Mm-hmm,
Speaker 2 00:13:54 <affirmative>, I'm gonna hand that to you and you see if you wanna do anything with that. If not, I'll come up with something else.
Speaker 3 00:14:00 Well, that's, uh, incredibly, um, fun to hear and perceptive. I've always thought if I were a painter, my mother is as a painter and excellent, um, drafts person skilled at drawing. I would do hands. I would just do hands over and over and over. Wow. Yeah. That's, that's fun that you, that you call, call that out. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:14:20 Yeah. Which I understand to be the most difficult, if not, well, very difficult to do for a paint of hands. So of course that's what you would choose because you're a poet and you like to suffer. So, uh, family is pro. Yeah. Family is prominent in these poems. We just heard about your mother, um, ancestors, your ancestors come up, their place in the world. Can you tell us a little bit, little bit, little to a bit about your family's influence on your poems, their place in your poems?
Speaker 3 00:14:51 Yeah, well, um, you know, the, the, the fact that everything begins and ends with mothers for me is, um, because of my own, uh, of course she, she is, um, I grew up hearing her birth story, which was in south Chicago, um, in the, um, uh, brutal, uh, obstetric days of, um, as it, as the poem described, uh, women really not having any shared information or control in the process, but a lot of condescension and talk talking down to, and, um, being hurted and coerced and told to shut up. And, uh, you don't know what pain real pain is like, and these were all the things said to her overheard. And, um, and then the drug that was given was scopolamine, which is an amnesiac that doesn't take pain away, but it C causes you to, um, forget your pain. So, so therefore the person in labor still felt pain and had to be shackled to the bed, um, so that they wouldn't fly off it so that they wouldn't kick and hit.
Speaker 3 00:16:12 And, um, but they were screaming. And so that was a real place of horror. And I feel like, you know, ensuing generations have inherited a kind of a, of a, of a trauma, you know, intergenerational trauma about that. And it explains a lot of, you know, even modern obstetrics. I still hear these stories where, of, you know, it looks different, but it's still very much coercion. So in any case, my mother, um, shaped me a lot. And, and even though she was fierce, she was not, um, able to stand up to, to that, uh, to a lot of these, uh, systems. Um, yeah. And, and so, so it became clear to me that I, you know, when I did my traveling and, um, uh, had exploring in the world, I landed on, um, midway free, everything sort of came together there, and I don't know how you can be a midwife without being an activist. Um, you know, the lack of mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it's just such a tough country to, to be a family and to have to be, have babies and raise a family is no paid parental, well, Minnesota is much better than Wisconsin will, will. Mm-hmm <affirmative> state that right up front <laugh>. Um, but it, but it's a tough time for pregnant people right now, whether, you know, regardless of what you choose, uh, to, to do with the pregnancy,
Speaker 2 00:17:46 A, um, a scholar and economist and a doctor medical doctor in Chicago, um, recently wrote a book called parent nation, which is exactly about the point you made about this country, vis Avi, other countries, especially European countries and Northern European countries, especially but many others, uh, and the degree to which they support mothers and families, um, before birth and long after birth. It's, it's quite remarkable to think, uh, to when you, when you look at the data, right. Uh,
Speaker 3 00:18:17 And I don't know if, you know, but Sweden just had elections and the conservative, uh, right wing party, like everywhere on the planet right now is making, um, large gains, uh, but never, ever, would they question the right to paid parental leave or the right to abortion on demand or the right to, um, uh, subsidize childcare or the right to high quality meals in schools or, uh, the, the right to safety from firearms, because it's very strict gun ownership in Sweden. And these are all pro family measures that, um, that they know even the far right. Uh, would never challenged. That's
Speaker 2 00:19:11 Amazing
Speaker 3 00:19:11 Universal healthcare. Those those are, and I should never say never because of, we
Speaker 2 00:19:17 <laugh>. Yes,
Speaker 3 00:19:19 Here we are.
Speaker 2 00:19:20 Right. But it sounds like those issues transcend politics, at least for now. Um, and here
Speaker 3 00:19:25 They're at least for now and
Speaker 2 00:19:27 Here they're defined by politics. Unfortunately. Um, we are well into our second half of our very brief time with you, Ingrid Ingrid Anderson, author of Yorta, motor poems of a midwife. Um, and we're a show about books and authors, and we like to talk to writers as writers because writers listen to us. Um, and especially with poets, it's fun to talk about how they work. So, um, how do you work? How do you get your inspiration? Are you a, a writer who sits down at six in the morning with a black cup of coffee and knocks out a few lines? Or, um, how disciplined are you, how do your poems get written?
Speaker 3 00:20:05 Yes, that's, that's exactly, uh, what I do and I don't, you know, it'd be really tough to, to have having a profession, um, to, to do it any other way, but it's, you know, as I said, it's like, uh, eating, breathing, um, for me. So it's very naturally the first thing I do when I get out of bed, uh, with my cup of coffee. And that's also when so many writers find that your, your mind has not been, um, burdened or cornered or boxed or led or directed by all the, all the, the demands of, of the day and the world. So it's a, it's a great time to, to, to delve right into the poetry. And, um, yeah. And, you know, at this point, I, I, couldn't not do it just like a person in labor. Couldn't not labor <laugh>, it's, it's really, um, compulsive. So, so there's a danger in that. Isn't there. I mean, I, I, um, it's hard to contain and I'm, self-employed, I'm in private practice, so, right. It's a little dangerous. It, it really is. It can take over. And so my struggle is it, it, you know, drawing that line, um, and quitting for the day.
Speaker 2 00:21:26 I see. Yeah, yeah. Nature is also present in your poems. Um, you, when you're are taking a, while you, you, you said something earlier, which made me think that as a poet, you think about poems or maybe see poems throughout the day. Very much. I'm thinking of a photographer now who might see the world differently from myself, for example, mm-hmm, <affirmative> um, as a poet, do you see the world differently? Are you looking at poems? Do you see poems? Do you see dead poems? I'm sorry. I'm a joke. Do you see living poems? Okay.
Speaker 3 00:21:59 I, yeah, I see, I see poems in death, you know, uh, midwifery, there are a lot of midwives who, um, end up doing hospice work and death, midwifery, and who are dad wives. Um, so that circle, um, is very much, um, familiar. And can I, I, I literally do see poetry in everything and I would, you know, it's, it's, um, it's endless and, um, I will never be bored. I, I can't imagine it. Yeah. The book was born on the island of both London, um, because both my husband and I are writers and we turned, I turned 50 and we, you know, you hit that point where it's now we're never, and our son was entering middle school. We thought what a great time to get him out of the American schools <laugh> and, um, and try something different, shake things up. So, um, so, you know, travel is, is, is really also, you know, just getting out of your culture, anything that clears the vision mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, and, and the hearing, you know, being surrounded by a different immersed in a different language, these are really powerful, um, inspirations and, uh, uh, you know, compost medium for mm-hmm <affirmative> for poetry,
Speaker 2 00:23:24 Compost, medium. I love that. I'm writing that down. I will credit you. Don't worry when I use it. Uh, Ingrid, do you have an event this week in Minneapolis? Is that right?
Speaker 3 00:23:34 I do. At one o'clock at American Swedish Institute, um, part of their conversation and culture series.
Speaker 2 00:23:42 Awesome.
Speaker 3 00:23:43 Yeah, I'll be talking about the book and, oh, Thursday, the Swedish themed poems, um, are, are, uh, scattered throughout the book, but there's a whole section called in VRA, which is a Swedish word, meaning immigrant. And that's when we moved back to Sweden for a couple of years almost. And, um, and the word literally means in wanderer and that's very much what that time was for me. Um, and, and, and, uh, was the conception of the book. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:24:16 Wonderful. And I believe that's on Thursday and never gonna hear about that in our calendar coming up between, at our break here and, uh, maybe able to have some nice egg coffee to go with that show. What do you think?
Speaker 3 00:24:26 Ah, yes.
Speaker 2 00:24:28 Okay.
Speaker 3 00:24:29 And folks should, uh, if you, if anyone out there wishes to come tell them, you're my guest.
Speaker 2 00:24:36 Nice
Speaker 3 00:24:36 And come right in.
Speaker 2 00:24:38 Wonderful. Thank you. And give it Ingrid for that. But before we run out of time, let's hear another poem.
Speaker 3 00:24:44 I think I, uh, would love to read, uh, segueing off what you just asked about, uh, what's poetry. What makes you wanna write a poem? Um, this is called thin places. That's a, a term I got, um, from Robert McFarland, the great Scottish nature writer, but he got it from Carrie ne Dockerty. And she just wrote a book called thin places. And I don't know what you call those places where the world becomes permeable out of time. Um, the picture on the cover of my book is a tiny little door on a, on a medieval house, on the island of gothlin in the middle of the Baltic sea, where we lived,
Speaker 2 00:25:22 Oh, it's a real portal.
Speaker 3 00:25:24 And that's my portal. That's my, that's a, that's an image of a portal. And that's what this poem is about. It's called sin places, the dogs, and I lift our heads and sniff the air the way infants catch their first breaths, curling back their necks and open to being mammal. The old limestone city is blanketed in snow, but our noses lead us towards something warm, steamy, slightly sweet. When our ears perk up a call, a whistle, our senses pull us down the street and lift our gaze to a Gable window, lit like a beacon or a portal in the Northern night. My Lutheran grandmother warned me not to take after my mother forever losing herself in time, not to be like the ruminating sheep grazing among the Karens, but the window is open and it trail pours out the way. Joy pours out the bright yellow mouth of a black bird, the dogs, and I stand patient a statues as aromas of Swedish pancakes drift down. Then she leans out a flushed young woman, damped from the heat of the skillet and fanning her neck with a towel swirls of wet curls, spilling out a bright yellow scarf just to suddenly she's gone, but the air remains almost edible and her Tris keep falling like stars.
Speaker 2 00:26:51 Oh, that's beautiful. Beautiful images. Thin places read by Ingrid Anderson our guest on right on radio this evening. You're to Mo mood poems of a midwife. That's her new book before we let you go, Ingrid. Uh, tell us what's what's coming next. Uh, any projects on the line writing projects? Yes.
Speaker 3 00:27:11 Yes. Um, thank you for asking. Um, I am just about ready to send out a little collection, um, about, uh, reproductive justice poems. Oh. Or on, on that theme. And, um, my work, uh, as a midwife in that full circle that you, that we talked about, uh, from, uh, release of, of all kinds of, of pregnancy to, um, uh, I mean, historically, uh, how abortion, uh, has, um, been experienced by pregnant people, why the overworked, um, worn out, uh, women fill the old cemeteries <laugh> um, because they were literally worn out to death, um, uh, having a child every year or every year and a half and, um, being, uh, uh, physical workers and laborers on top of, on top of those labors. So, um, so that's, uh, taking, uh, just, just, it's also a bridging a bridging book. Um, mm-hmm <affirmative> on, on those divides.
Speaker 3 00:28:36 And so I'm, I'm really, um, happy to bring that into the world because it doesn't feel like it's, um, feeling divides. I, it feels to me as though it's, um, bridging them and the title of it is, um, uh, the, where, what did I land on now while it's not, it's not out there yet. So, um, but Robert Frost says earth, Earth's the right place for love. And, um, and, uh, even though it, we want to escape it sometimes, um, love is where we come back to it. And so, uh, the, the collection is called the place for love.
Speaker 2 00:29:26 Oh, we can't wait. And please keep us in mind here at, right on radio when that book comes out. Thank you. We've been speaking with Ingrid Anderson about our new book of poems, Jordan mood, poems of a midwife out from holy cow, press out of Duluth. Ingrid. What a treat. Thank you for joining us tonight.
Speaker 3 00:29:42 Oh, what a treat for me too. Thank you, David.
Speaker 2 00:29:44 Yeah. Best of luck. We'll talk to you again. Bye now. Bye. And now this
Speaker 4 00:30:06 You're listening to write on radio on K F I'm Otto, and I'm joined by two friends, Shelby Richardson, and Jay Eisenberg, who recently took their friendship to the next level. And that has come to fruition in the form of their performance group. We are married. We are married as opening a new show this Friday, September 16th, called big game, a live fever dream of a televised survivalist game. Show something in the vein of alone. Um, Jay shall be thank you for joining us. Uh, why don't we start with you telling us a bit about we are married.
Speaker 5 00:30:45 Hi,
Speaker 6 00:30:45 Thanks so much for having us.
Speaker 5 00:30:48 Oh, geez. Yeah. What about we are married? Okay. We are a, um, we're a performance group, Minneapolis based. You do this part jam. You're better at this.
Speaker 6 00:30:57 Oh, well, yeah. We're a performance group. We're Minneapolis based for now. Um, we have collaborators here, but also hopefully elsewhere in the future. And right now we focus on making live performance. Um, but I, I would say, I mean, I know you asked us this a moment ago, O you were like theater company and, and we say post performance group. Yeah. We say performance group. Ooh.
Speaker 5 00:31:19 What could it mean?
Speaker 4 00:31:20 Definitely correct myself. I
Speaker 6 00:31:22 Don't, I don't know. I mean, I guess I just say we both come from pretty like mainstream theater for the most part, like yeah, yeah. Sometimes. And so we're not doing that now. <laugh> I, I mean, we might still do it, but this is not that
Speaker 5 00:31:33 No we're planning to do. We do events. We do film screenings. We're planning to make films. We're planning to make television. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so there's, there's some filmed element here. A
Speaker 4 00:31:46 Streaming service. Are you starting a streaming
Speaker 6 00:31:47 Service? You're not
Speaker 5 00:31:48 Wrong. You're the first, you're not right yet to
Speaker 6 00:31:50 See if you might be wrong now, but you'll be right in the future.
Speaker 4 00:31:54 I definitely, I mean, I implore listeners to visit the website. We are married.org. It's got great design by Jay. Um,
Speaker 5 00:32:02 It's, Jay's, it's, Jay's work of art and, and what a work of art. It is. People tune in, get on, get on there immediately, cuz you're in for a treat folks. Okay. You're truly, you're gonna love it. It's very funny. And I, I wanna say now we are not legally married. Okay. So don't Jay and I both have wonderful partners who are not each other. We're not legally, we're
Speaker 6 00:32:22 Not legally married and, and legally we are legally. Yeah. We're legally an LLC. This
Speaker 5 00:32:27 Is a business
Speaker 6 00:32:28 There's actually just different paperwork. You have to file to be an LLC versus to get married
Speaker 5 00:32:32 Just slightly different and slightly more expensive though. Not by much. <laugh> they're not by much.
Speaker 4 00:32:37 Well, congratulations. Thank you on, thank you. Uh, your LLC, um, speaking,
Speaker 5 00:32:44 There's a registry at, um,
Speaker 4 00:32:47 <laugh> um, how many bread makers did you get?
Speaker 5 00:32:50 Bread makers. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:32:51 Do people still get bread makers for, uh, LLCs? Oh
Speaker 6 00:32:54 My
Speaker 5 00:32:54 God. Oh my God. What is this?
Speaker 6 00:32:57 That's really nice. Yeah. I was thinking we could have like a honey fund. Maybe
Speaker 5 00:33:01 See, this is exactly what I feared going into this interview is that we'd be saying stuff that I don't understand <laugh> or this is my exact fear with, with life here.
Speaker 4 00:33:10 Um, earlier you, you mentioned that, uh, you came from slightly more traditional theater backgrounds and are doing less traditional stuff. You're making wavy hand motions.
Speaker 6 00:33:23 Who's to say, I mean, what is, what is tradition auto?
Speaker 4 00:33:26 Well, sure. Good, good point. What is, I'm
Speaker 5 00:33:28 Not gonna cast us. We're both trans. So it doesn't, you know what I mean? It doesn't matter
Speaker 4 00:33:31 What we're doing untraditional.
Speaker 6 00:33:33 Yeah. I'd say we both, did we both get BFAs? Sure. Are we both highly skilled? Absolutely. Does that make us more castable in the eyes of the powers that be no. You tell us
Speaker 4 00:33:44 Not from what I've seen. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. I find you very castable that's I am not a casting director.
Speaker 6 00:33:50 That's so kind of you to say,
Speaker 5 00:33:51 And that's an oversight on your part <laugh> and that's an oversight on your part.
Speaker 4 00:33:55 Um, but, but just, uh, in, in terms of your background, uh, I guess I, I saw your first show, uh, house effort, um, not the real title of the show. That's a
Speaker 6 00:34:09 Sponsored title.
Speaker 4 00:34:10 The sensor, if you
Speaker 5 00:34:12 Go, if you go right over to the website, you can see the real title.
Speaker 4 00:34:14 You'll know the word. You might be thinking the word right now. Uh, if you are, I'm sorry. Um, but house effort was a fantastic show and something that I really appreciated about it was that, you know, I, I guess I would tell people that it's, you know, avant garde, but it's still structured itself or you structured it in a way where, um, you know, there were climaxes, there were acts, you could feel there were, you know, it, it was entertaining as some Avantgarde theater does not, uh, accomplish entertainment. So well, oh,
Speaker 5 00:34:56 Shots fired.
Speaker 4 00:34:57 <laugh> first of all, I said some not I'm a big, I'm a big fan, but you know,
Speaker 5 00:35:00 Second of all compliments. Right? So
Speaker 6 00:35:02 Love avanguard, but like, um, sort of accessible in its form, right? Like I,
Speaker 4 00:35:07 But not too accessible. I don't wanna insult you by saying it's no,
Speaker 6 00:35:11 Well,
Speaker 5 00:35:12 I, I wouldn't be insulted
Speaker 6 00:35:12 By accessibility is never an insult, but,
Speaker 5 00:35:15 And we're both very excited by structure. We're both very passionate about
Speaker 6 00:35:19 Structure. Right. And thinking about things that are, I don't know. I think we talk a lot about like the high art, low art combination and, and really wanting it to be that all at
Speaker 5 00:35:28 Once. Yeah. Can we make a show called house effort, but you go through what you would go through seeing war and peace, for instance, you know, can, can we, can we do do that? Can we make something where one minute it's completely absurd and ridiculous, and then the next it's really deep and you're surprised by you're shocked. It should come up to surprise you. I
Speaker 4 00:35:49 Think. Do you, when you're writing together, do you consciously, uh, uh, I guess almost mathematically parse out that balance, do you talk about the elements? Like we've got one of these, we gotta have one of these or, oh yeah. <laugh> yeah.
Speaker 6 00:36:08 Yeah. My thought is no <laugh>, but I think that's, uh, I think sometimes it feels, I, I really don't like the word I'm about to use when it comes to, uh, devised work. I know organic, I hate it. Okay. But I do think there's a way of kind of finding it.
Speaker 4 00:36:23 <laugh> finding it as genetically modified writing only genetic
Speaker 5 00:36:28 <laugh>.
Speaker 6 00:36:28 Yeah. But I would say there's a sense of more like, you know, we throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and see what sticks, and then can go back and say, well, does it have a little too much of this? Does it need a little more of this rather than, I mean, would you, would you say mm-hmm <affirmative>, that's true.
Speaker 5 00:36:42 We go to a place with house after I think where we were trying to decide, okay, this, uh, we're kind of going back and forth between two rhythms, you know, where we're, um, some things are really, really fast. Some things are really, really slow and we're just sort of sandwiching those one, right on top of the other, uh, you know, that's not interesting. It's not variety. Do you know what I mean? It should be more like orchestral, I think. Yeah. Yeah. So like why I answered yes. Is like, yes, to me. Totally. That's always in my mind, we're writing something. Oh, Hmm. I like how this feels to say, or I, I like this writing, but it's really slow. So where would that go in the piece? You know? And so then what does, what does the content need to be to suit the form? We're both really excited about structure. Totally. You know, but,
Speaker 6 00:37:23 And it might mean that you make a bunch of pieces and then reorder them. You know, I think that there's,
Speaker 5 00:37:27 Or don't use or
Speaker 6 00:37:28 Don't oh, we love throwing things out. <laugh> we love throwing things out. My
Speaker 5 00:37:33 Babies. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:37:34 My babies, my babies.
Speaker 4 00:37:35 Do you, yeah. Uh, in, in having seen that show, uh, there are seemingly improvisational elements or I, things that are going on with the space, it seems like there have to be improvisational elements. Um, since you're being conscious of the various balances that you have going on, how, how are you navigating those? And are you planning for them in any way?
Speaker 6 00:38:05 Do you wanna take this first or shall I,
Speaker 5 00:38:07 Well, it's hard actually. I think I thought it was really tough. I was before the show, I was always saying, this is really hard. I don't, I don't wanna do this today. And then, um, Jay was saying, no, you have to in doing little dance. And, um, there, you know, I didn't handle that very well, just emotionally, to be honest, I, I didn't, I struggled, uh, through that, but I think we, we always got there it's yeah. There's the regular improvisation of your performing you're in a live thing and that's always improved to some extent. And then for us, there were these added moments where we really tried to challenge ourselves like Jay, I remember you came up with something new every night for a reason. You had to leave the room at one point. And, um, I had to hide at that point, cuz I was supposed to be sort of off stage, but we were performing in a home. So there's no off stage. You're always in view. So sort of hiding in a cabinet or closet or whatever. And I'm hearing Jay say, you know, I, I really wanna take it to the next level with my Verizon guy, I, or, you know, one day he was like, I gotta head to driving school. I got, I got, I got tickets to a concert. I mean, it was just, it was every day. It was totally different. It was just ridiculous. So yeah, there are those pointed moments of truly you wrote something new every night.
Speaker 6 00:39:18 Well, yeah, I would say that we planned for the moments of improv in the show. Like I think house suffer was a really good example of having a really clear structure, a lot of portions that were completely written. And then there were a couple of moments each night. Like for me, yeah. Was the excuse section where like I would have a seat of an idea earlier that day and be like Ikea. And then later that night be like, I wonder what would come out of me <laugh> and I, I feel pretty comfortable with improvisation, but then there were parts sometimes where, I mean, you, for your, my first time section about the, the first time you, you know, were,
Speaker 5 00:39:47 Oh
Speaker 6 00:39:48 Yes. That intimate with a home. Um, I did
Speaker 5 00:39:50 A
Speaker 6 00:39:50 Couple, there was, I mean, that, that was, we also realized it was pretty audacious to subject audiences to, I would say 2, 2, 8 minute monologues in a row. <laugh> like strap in folks. Uh, I think again, just
Speaker 5 00:40:03 You like us because we're about to talk
Speaker 6 00:40:06 A lot and that's not the whole show. Right. I mean, you
Speaker 4 00:40:08 Absolutely not. I
Speaker 6 00:40:10 Would say certainly definitely having like those moments of planned improvisation and um, really not. I, I think we both trust each other a lot. Ooh, can I say that?
Speaker 5 00:40:20 Oh yeah. <laugh>
Speaker 6 00:40:22 <laugh> and trust each other with also, um, being able to hold that space and know that okay. In a moment of improvisation, I'm not gonna suddenly be going on for 20 minutes. Like I have a internal clock that allows me to understand, okay, it's this much time that we need to fill. And then we get right back into the structure as written.
Speaker 5 00:40:40 Yeah. You can kind of tell what audiences can handle too. I think there were times when it was like, oh, well I'd like to say more, but I can tell the audience is bored with me doing this joke. So I'm not gonna keep, you know, I'm not gonna keep harping on it, but for sure, which is, I'd like to,
Speaker 4 00:40:58 Well, uh, you know, in the, in the interest of the good review, I don't remember anything lasting as long as eight minutes. That's great. It was all wonder.
Speaker 6 00:41:07 Wow.
Speaker 4 00:41:07 That's all, it was all flying by.
Speaker 6 00:41:09 That's great. Eight minutes is a long time to do anything really. I'm
Speaker 5 00:41:13 So flattered. Thank
Speaker 6 00:41:14 You. Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker 4 00:41:15 Um, and, and actually a performance question on, on, uh, the note about having to hide for a while. Um, Jay, I observed you hiding during Shelby's monologue, uh, behi. I think it was during a monologue, uh, behind a couch. Um, I'm wrong. <laugh> and oh yeah. I was able to see your, the top, the top half of your head the whole time. And it really seemed like you were still in character the whole time. And I enjoyed it. I was just wondering if, if that's the case, like, is your mindset in character? Are you like, oh my God, I have to do that entrance.
Speaker 6 00:41:58 What a great question. <laugh> um, so, so I'm recalling, did you see it in the
Speaker 4 00:42:03 Condo? I saw it in the condo.
Speaker 6 00:42:04 Yeah. So in that one, um, in another location I was, uh, during that section, I was like locked away in a bathroom the whole time, so not visible. Okay. Um, but regardless of location, it was very intentional that a part of me was showing. And I would say, I'm, I'm gonna sound like an actor right now and I'm sorry. Uh, but I, I was very much in it the whole time. So that was not Jay. It was Phil, you know, on the floor partially visible, aware that he was hiding yeah. And doing a bad job. <laugh>
Speaker 4 00:42:32 Um,
Speaker 6 00:42:33 And I think that role in particular, and I don't know if you feel this way too, Shelby, there's something about clown. That's like very consuming for me. Like I find that once I get into a clown mindset, um, it's really hard to get out of it. So I would say like in that show, I was very able to stay present with the clown the whole time, which is a really lucky thing to be able to have when you're working with a lot of audience variables that can easily take you out of it. You know, we had a one performance in particular where there's always gonna be someone who's maybe trying to be a part of it, like a little too much. And you're like, who did we come here to see tonight? Like you or us? And I don't mean to sound like, mean, I'm just saying there are people who try and disrupt in that way, hecklers, if you will. And I,
Speaker 4 00:43:13 I kinda have to consciously temper that part of myself.
Speaker 6 00:43:16 Oh, it's such a human thing. Right. Ooh. Well,
Speaker 5 00:43:18 Thank you for doing
Speaker 4 00:43:18 That though. <laugh> yeah. So does, yeah.
Speaker 5 00:43:20 Some don't some, don't
Speaker 4 00:43:21 Some don't, well, I'm not getting paid to be there. So
Speaker 5 00:43:24 Exactly. That would be my, that would be my logic <laugh>
Speaker 6 00:43:27 But I do think clown makes it, um, easy to really stay in, even in the moments where you're not like active in the moment. It's yeah.
Speaker 4 00:43:35 Excellent. Um, getting back a little bit to the collab, collaborative process for you. Uh, I historically have been very bad at editing a creative project with one singular other person. Hmm. Um, multiple voices in a room. I, I think help, uh, because there's a little bit of like, it's not just like, it's just you against me or you're supporting me or not supporting me. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, I'm interested to know how your editing process goes when you're writing. Um, when you have to make the hard choices and maybe throw someone's baby out.
Speaker 5 00:44:23 Yeah. We've thrown how you're asking how those decisions go.
Speaker 4 00:44:26 Yeah. What's the process of decisions. Yeah. How you find the diplomacy within a
Speaker 5 00:44:33 Diplomacy. I don't know if it's
Speaker 6 00:44:36 There's
Speaker 5 00:44:36 Diplomacy. I think it's sort of like you, you know, well, like for this process we're currently on, there was something I was really jazzed about, about kind of an ending for it really early on. Yeah. And I was just really jazzed about it. So I think I just came into rehearsal one day and was kind of like, you know, I am really attached to this. Like I love it. I cannot stop thinking about it. I think it's amazing. I think that's gonna be good. And I think we should do that kind of like, I think we should at least try it. Right. And then, um, me just kind of saying my attachment to it. Everyone else was like, yeah, yeah. You know, and then, and then we never tried it and we've never brought it up again. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, so I think just naming when you have emotions connected to something seems to help a lot because that's really not, there's not been any, um, I'm not like harboring secret duress about, you know what I mean? I'm not, I'm not so, and, and the piece is the better for it. I think, because we've all said, you know, you have an attachment to things you make, you shouldn't assume that someone doesn't have an attachment to something they made. You know? So I think just that process of being honest about what you feel about
Speaker 6 00:45:44 Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:45:45 I think various things. Totally.
Speaker 6 00:45:46 I, I think like naming the attachment is a really helpful part of it instead of pretending like I've absolutely, I've been a part of, a lot of, um, kind of ensemble driven processes. And I think when people are secretly hoping like, oh, I hope that this thing that I made ends up in the show, but they've never talked about it. Then I find that the letting go is really hard because you've never even let it be. And I think, um, yeah. And I think like with that ending, we talked about it a little bit, but you and I, for all the years we've been talking, we talk about that principle of like, what is it the autotelic like, what, what does the piece need auto.
Speaker 5 00:46:17 Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:46:17 Right. So it's not just about the desires of the individuals. Yeah, yeah. Or even the desires of the ensemble, but like the pieces, a living, breathing thing, what does it need in order to be what it is? And maybe it's not that ending and yeah.
Speaker 5 00:46:30 I'm trying to define autotelic. I think it's like, um, it has its own rules. Like it has its own internal logic. So you have to kind of let the piece have its own internal logic, which I think sounds super pretentious and unrelatable, but then when you're in it and you're going, no, like, would this help the piece? You know what I, yeah. You're the creators of it. You're responsible for its existence, but you're not controlling, you know, if your kid is a, a truck driver or a brain surgeon either, do you know what I mean? So
Speaker 6 00:46:56 If you're, you're trying, it's probably not gonna go, well, it's probably gonna rebel against you at some point.
Speaker 5 00:47:00 Right. And, and the horrendous we're trying to, this is for the audience, you know what I mean? It's not for us,
Speaker 6 00:47:04 Right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think some of the, our favorite discoveries in, in the process of making these things have come like very, uh, outta left field, mm-hmm, <affirmative> like, again, I'm thinking even about like, um, Mindy,
Speaker 5 00:47:16 Mindy, like the,
Speaker 6 00:47:17 Like
Speaker 5 00:47:17 Too, just even with the, um, headlamp, you know? Totally. There's some amazing stuff that just because
Speaker 4 00:47:23 A character in big game. Yeah,
Speaker 5 00:47:26 Yeah. Mindy is from big game. Yeah. And we would never have anticipated Mindy
Speaker 6 00:47:29 Existing and no one saw her
Speaker 5 00:47:31 Coming. Yeah. Mindy pretzel Lubbock is here to stay. So, um,
Speaker 4 00:47:34 Well I hope to be equally surprised <laugh>
Speaker 6 00:47:38 You might be, you might
Speaker 5 00:47:39 Be, and others might as well listeners if they choose to come to the
Speaker 4 00:47:43 Show, which I would say they should. My, uh, my, my first experience with your first house effort was your first show, correct? Correct. Yeah. Um, was really, really great. Uh, gave me stuff that I continued thinking of it wasn't just disposable entertainment either. Um, wow.
Speaker 6 00:48:05 Wow. Compliment. Wow. I am loving this. Wow. I'd love to see our version of disposable entertainment. Honestly. We've talked about making vending machines, you know, sorry. Actually can
Speaker 4 00:48:15 Flat my, like with the little toys who knows casts
Speaker 6 00:48:19 And we're not gonna tell you, you what's in there fake
Speaker 5 00:48:21 Lays. Yeah. Lots of faked delays for me. I
Speaker 6 00:48:24 Think it's the Fris that are shaped like cars <laugh>
Speaker 5 00:48:27 Oh, delicious.
Speaker 4 00:48:28 Yeah. Well with such a winning idea, I think this sounds like a pretty good place to wrap up. Oh. Um, I am very glad that you're able to join us in the studio today. Thanks
Speaker 6 00:48:39 So much. Thank you for having us.
Speaker 4 00:48:40 Yeah. Um,
Speaker 5 00:48:42 Oh,
Speaker 6 00:48:42 Thank you. Oh. Oh.
Speaker 5 00:48:43 Can we, um, just say really quickly where they can find us to
Speaker 4 00:48:47 Yes. Please plug
Speaker 5 00:48:48 The show. Wonderful. So the show is running big game is running next three weekends. It's $25. It starts at seven 30. It's not family friendly unless your family is friendly to some offensive content. <laugh>
Speaker 6 00:49:07 We would say 16, 16 and up.
Speaker 5 00:49:10 Um, I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 6 00:49:11 I think that's what it says about bring your
Speaker 5 00:49:13 16
Speaker 6 00:49:13 Year olds bring your 16 year olds. Um, they're gonna love it, but we definitely yeah. Would say not family friendly. Next three weekends, you can find more information at our website. We are married.org. There. You will be directed to an event bright page, which has a whole slew of sensory advisories and content warnings. And pretty much all the information that we could give you while also still being vague enough to keep it interesting. <laugh>
Speaker 5 00:49:35 If $25 is too steep for us, just, just email
Speaker 6 00:49:38 Us. Yeah. And we can reduce the price for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:49:40 Hmm. Very nice
Speaker 6 00:49:42 Location. Oh, and the locations, um, it's in three different backyards across the twin cities, Metro area. Mm-hmm <affirmative> you have to, uh, you gotta buy a ticket folks. You can't do a walkup cuz you don't know where you're going, where you're going folks, but audience members are emailed by 9:00 AM the day of their show with the location. But there's one in first weekend, south Minneapolis, second weekend, north Minneapolis, third weekend Mendota Heights.
Speaker 4 00:50:03 Very cool. Very cool. Well, I guess we'll see you at one of those three locations. Incredible.
Speaker 6 00:50:08 I look forward to we'll be there.
Speaker 7 00:50:35 You are listening to write on radio on KFA I 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'd like to fake our special guests tonight. Ingrid Andon, J Eisenberg and Shelby Richardson and all our listeners without your support and donations cafe would not be possible. You can find more news and info about right on radio at cafe.org/right on radio.
