Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:00:18 Listening to right on radio on KPI 90.3 FM and streaming live on the web at <inaudible> dot org. I'm Liz Oles. This is the second week of write on radio is exciting. New collaboration with the atopic graphic arts festival. A topic is a twin city space arts festival, focusing on comics zenes and print media. And this fall on KPI right on radio is collaborating with the atopic team and the gutter boys podcast. Present interviews with some of our topics, mostly exciting guests as a limited series. We want to thank Pete fakey and the atopic board for making this possible tonight. Pete fakey, local cartoonist, and on topic organizer interviews, Madeline McGrain graphic, novelist, and cartoonist, who has worked for Marvel comics, Disney publishing and college humor, and is currently working on a graphic novel for Harper Collins without further ado.
Speaker 2 00:01:17 I'm Pete fakey, atoptic board member and cartoonist, and I'm joined today by Madeline McGrain. Madeline is a cartoonist best known for her many comics in the vampire genre. She lives in Minneapolis and received her BFA from M cat in 2016. Her work has appeared in Marvel comics, Disney publishing college humor in Minneapolis, local uncivilized books. Madeline is currently working on the cursive vampire and original graphic novel to be published by Harper Collins in 2021. A welcome, how are you doing?
Speaker 1 00:01:55 I'm doing pretty well working, living, hanging in there.
Speaker 2 00:02:01 Yeah. Yup. Relatable. I think we're all just trying to work and live and hang in there. Um, so let's, I guess we'll just let people know. So we both went to M CAD, um, and that's how we know each other. And we met in class, I think, um, we had a lot of the same classes together, me and ms. Harkness, who I also reviewed, uh, interviewed, uh, we didn't really have that relationship. We were studio partners, but me and you actually had a lot of the same classes and we're involved in a lot of the same, uh, critiques and, and, uh, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 00:02:37 Yeah. I mean, we definitely had senior project together. I don't remember any other class well enough,
Speaker 2 00:02:44 You know, you might be right. I came in a little bit later. I was doing some of the intro classes, I think when you and Rosemary and some of the other people that were in her graduating class were starting to on, I was kind of doing some of the interest stuff, but by the end, yeah, we were definitely seeing a lot of each other
Speaker 1 00:03:04 And like senior project is kind of the most important and memorable, at least it was for me. I don't know if you feel that
Speaker 2 00:03:11 Yeah. That, that, and, uh, whatever that one that comes before, it that's basically the same class. That's just like the prep for senior project. Yeah. Whatever that was. Yeah. Yeah. I felt the same way. I thought those were really good. And, um, I really enjoyed, uh, having class with you. And I think we had some really strong cartoonists in that, uh, in our graduating class. They're nice to work alongside you guys.
Speaker 1 00:03:39 Yeah. It was a good group. Um, and it was, I don't know, I valued how much you would talk during critique. That was like never one of my strong points. And I got, I always got a lot of good feedback from you on my vampire Western that I was working on.
Speaker 2 00:03:56 Yeah. Yeah. We'll talk about that a little bit more later. Well, I appreciate that. I got to try to, uh, not talk so much today. Cause now I got a lot to say on pretty much anything, even if it's not worth it, I'll be talking. So, uh, but we're talking to you today, so I gotta watch it and let you, let you, uh, do you think, so we're both from Wisconsin, I'm from Madison A. Little further South. I think you were North of me. Is that right?
Speaker 1 00:04:26 Um, no, I am actually grew up South of Madison, so I was born in Madison and then grew up in Monroe and the Monroe area. It's a small town known for a biennial cheese festival. Probably haven't heard of it. I don't know.
Speaker 2 00:04:45 Sure. Uh, Monroe sounds familiar, but I think that's just like a common word in Wisconsin. I don't know. So it was a pretty small town then I do have that part of my memory is really small town. What were comics like when you were growing up out there? Was there like any kind of, you know, I kinda got them in late, uh, school libraries and public libraries and I think that was sort of my first interactions, but, uh, what was your experience finding comics as a kid?
Speaker 1 00:05:15 Um, so I first started reading like newspaper strips, which I think is pretty common. Um, like in the newspaper and my parents just had collections of like Calvin and Hobbes and the far side, which that was a big one. So I read those like all the time and then, yeah, definitely like the public library. I was homeschooled, so I didn't really have access to school libraries, the public library, like weird Mongo collections. And I mean, there wasn't like a comic book store, like within 50 miles or 40 miles. So I would just go and read like narrow toe at the library.
Speaker 2 00:06:00 Huh? I don't know if I knew that that was out yet. I remember me and my brother like getting into like battle angel, I lead and stuff when we were in like third and fourth grade and like kinda gnarly or some of the gnarlier stuff, he especially was like really into that one. So, uh, what were your favorites as a kid then you were talking about, um, covenant hubs and the far side and some of the Monga stuff where you a Tintin kid.
Speaker 1 00:06:28 I was absolutely not a Tintin kid. I am interesting. I have read a little bit of it as an adult. I think like the only the version that the library had was like that print where it's like really small and just like not very fun to read. So I was like picked it up and was like, now this is too small to look at.
Speaker 2 00:06:49 I wasn't into it when I was young at all, either. I love it now. And I always kind of assumed that you were attentive and kid, cause your stuff feels so European to me. But uh, so what were you reading instead?
Speaker 1 00:07:01 Pretty much in all Monga kid until like later in high school. Um, so like narrative formental Alchemist, um, that's like the extremely basic ones that I can remember and just like
Speaker 2 00:07:17 They were super accessible. Yeah. Super, super accessible comics growing up. Okay. Interesting. So where, uh, Oh,
Speaker 1 00:07:27 Uh, clamp, like, um, part captor SOCRA w and many of their other mangoes, they were just like, always like scattered volumes of various things available to check out. And I like, wouldn't always like read a whole series. It just, just finding things.
Speaker 2 00:07:46 Yeah. I think that's kind of how I did it too. I really steered away from superhero stuff. Cause I remember like the Bruce tin, Batman cartoon was huge for me. And I remember going to pick up some Batman comics and seeing like a naked breast or like somebody bleeding or something and just like put the book back as like a little kid and was just like, so I wasn't supposed to see that, you know? Yeah. You didn't have any of those experiences.
Speaker 1 00:08:19 I watched like the X-Men cartoon and like I loved the X-Men movies that were coming out then, um, those ones and, but there was just like really no way to like jump off into reading those comics.
Speaker 2 00:08:35 Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, that's a similar experience. I'm I'm interested in this question cause you got like, there's such a legend for like the gender, a generation or two of cartoonists above us where like they all have these like stories of like going to the corner store and like picking up the Archie and like, you know, comics were like really specifically for kids, but we're, you know, mid, late twenties and we had a really different experience with comics growing up that kind of a market that's so nostalgic for, uh, comics and kids, relationships to comics didn't really exist when we were growing up. I was curious if you had any of that in the small town though, but it sounds like it was pretty similar to my experience.
Speaker 1 00:09:24 Yeah. I feel like, like our generation's experience is like reading manga, like either illegally online or like in borders and then not buying it.
Speaker 2 00:09:35 Yeah. Borders. Oh my God. I forgot about that. Yeah, totally. I remember sitting there and reading the whole first volume of hell saying and putting it back and the walking out.
Speaker 1 00:09:50 Yeah. I would just like get left there. Like if my mom had errands to run in Madison and I would just like read and then not buy anything and go home.
Speaker 2 00:10:00 So when did you start, uh, drawing comics? Were you pretty young when you started or did that come later?
Speaker 1 00:10:06 Yeah, I was always like kind of an art kid. Like drawing was kind of the only thing that I was good at. Like I wasn't good at writing. I wasn't particularly good at school related things. Um, so I kind of put all my energy into that and I liked telling stories, but um, hated writing and I still don't love writing. So comics was kind of like a natural conclusion to that. Some like huge, Epic comic that I was like working on in middle school or something, but I did like make like one page comics pretty frequently.
Speaker 2 00:10:46 Sure. And that was, that was like around middle school or earlier?
Speaker 1 00:10:50 Yeah. Like middle school and then into high school and I like got more serious about it.
Speaker 2 00:10:57 Okay. Yeah. So then, um, how does that turn into the decision to major in comics at M CAD? Cause that's like, I feel like we got that in common where we're both lifers in that way where like when you go to school for comics, you're making a very specific decision about what to do with your future, you know? And it's kind of a, I think it's kind of a weird decision to make in some ways.
Speaker 1 00:11:31 Yeah. Like it's a pretty wild decision to be allowed to age 17. Um, I think I like started applying to art schools with the intention of going into animation because that was like regarded as a slightly more like viable career than comics. But I, and like, I like her tunes, but I don't like them enough to like really get into animation, I think in the end. So I like went to M cat and got about being an animator and then just like went into comics because it's what I love and like what I want to be reading all the time and what I want to be doing all the time.
Speaker 2 00:12:11 I had a really similar experience. Um, the other thing about comics too, is you just, uh, you can do it all by yourself, right? You don't need a production team and you don't need, um, and uh, you know, you can do that with animation too, but you can get a comic done a lot faster if you're working alone.
Speaker 1 00:12:29 Definitely like you're not putting weeks of work into like a one minute animation. It's just, and like maybe I'm not a good team player. Maybe I think I kind of like, just like doing everything on my own. And that's like Ben an interesting thing with the graphic novel. Like it's good to have input from another person, but I like, it's a lot to get used to, to like have, have other people giving me feedback when I,
Speaker 2 00:12:57 Yeah. So you're right. So you're talking about a working with an editor then with, with getting feedback, right? Yeah. That'd be a new experience. Yeah. How's that band, that's a, how much feedback are they giving you or are they pretty hands on or are they, are you mostly doing your own thing? And then just kind of getting notes.
Speaker 1 00:13:19 I'm mostly doing my own thing. And like, my editor is so helpful and like pointing out if I'm like, just like inconsistent or like not explaining things. And also like the graphic novel is for a middle grade audience. So sometimes I will like put things in there that might not be considered appropriate and like, they don't really need to be there so I can make the decision to take them out if they're like, not necessarily for the story just to like make my life easier, I guess.
Speaker 2 00:13:51 Yeah. I assumed that because you sent me the first chapter of the, uh, the upcoming book, which again is the cursive vampire. Um, so you send me the first chapter of that and I noticed the conspicuous lack of, uh, scenes of them actually drinking the blood. It's always like just after, and you've got a little bit in there, but it's always just after and they're like dabbing with a napkin or something. Instead I assumed that that was kind of coming from the editor and working with the middle grade audience.
Speaker 1 00:14:26 Yeah. That was like my choice mostly. Sure. I wasn't sure if it would be okay. Um, to like show the children like biting people. So they don't really,
Speaker 2 00:14:41 Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I was actually, I was a little bit surprised with the, uh, blood at all. I was like, Oh, I didn't know. You could do that. I hope it's. We'll see. Yeah. They haven't said anything about it.
Speaker 1 00:14:54 Yeah. Bands and I'll, I don't know ostracized from society.
Speaker 2 00:14:59 Well, you'd be in some good company there. Well, we're already starting to talk about vampires a little bit here. So my, uh, my next question here is this obligatory and I apologize in advance because I know that this is something you've already been asked a lot and it's something that you're going to be asked for the rest of your career, but, uh, I feel like we can't not do it. Right. Uh, so here's our obligatory best vampire stories question. Um, which I guess, you know, we can use this to kind of talk about, uh, how that became a thing for you because this is, this is very specific and in the, you know, four or five years that I've known you, you've worked almost exclusively in this genre. And so, you know, clearly you have this very specific connection to it. Um, but yeah, best stories and, uh, I guess kind of where this came from,
Speaker 1 00:15:53 That is a good question. And I always feel like I don't really have a good answer for it. Um, I wasn't like a horror or vampire obsessed, like kid or anything. I think probably like consumed about as much of empire media as anyone else. And then like, I don't know, mid high school, I read like Anne rice a little bit. And that was like pretty influential. Yeah. Like interview with the vampire is a big, like influence on a lot of people that like vampires. And I don't know, I personally love it. It's like kind of a problematic fave at this point. Like Anne rice is a very, I don't know, strange figure as like an author, but I'm,
Speaker 2 00:16:39 I don't know any of the details here. I saw the movie. I think I have a VHS copy of it in my apartment right now, but I haven't seen it in awhile.
Speaker 1 00:16:49 Yeah. I mean, Brad Pitt and Antonio vendor is like almost kiss. So that's like pretty great. The rest of the movies, you know, Tom cruise in a wig,
Speaker 2 00:17:01 It's got the drama though. It really, uh, it really does have that piece of overlap with your work where, uh, you're doing vampires, but you're, you're more just kind of showing people's lives under extreme circumstances. And it's got that real, uh, emotional core to it.
Speaker 1 00:17:23 Yeah. And I think when I make vampire stories, they're like almost always told from the perspective of a vampire, like, it's not like a horror story about people. Like, and then there are vampires, it's like a vampire, like going about their life. So it's like very much from the perspective of that.
Speaker 2 00:17:43 Yeah. And then, uh, on your website, all the comics, we're going to be talking about our, uh, from your website and you've done a great job of cataloging your stuff there, which I thank you for, because I misplaced a lot of your hard copies. I'm a have to dig them up. I can't find my, uh, ice highest or anything, which I bummed about, but I'm gonna pull your website up here and make sure that I get the right title here. Yeah. The old, the oldest one on your website here, the old friends. So that one, you're talking from the perspective of a human interacting with a vampire, but it's very similar where, uh, to me, that comic felt like it was really about, uh, dealing with loss and sort of using the genre as a way to explore these like very, very human, I guess, very mortal, uh, concerns, you know, um, this one is, uh, her friend dies and then comes back as a vampire. And it's sort of, that's the crux of that one. That's a, that's an older one. Do you remember working on that one?
Speaker 1 00:18:59 I do. Um, I made it like not for a class assignment during like, um, first semester of junior year, which was like the most hellish semester at M CAD for me. And it was just so refreshing to make this comment. Cause I was like take taking so many classes and not like making comics for them at that time. The comic gets like it's about loss and it's about like losing touch with someone and then like still being able to find something in common with them and find them. And yeah, that's like a lot of what my vampire comics are about. It's like being an outsider or like feeling like an outsider and just like kind of accepting who you are and like the limitations that you have.
Speaker 2 00:19:46 Yeah. Interesting. There's um, I think that kind of speaks to one of the other questions that I have here, which is, um, the appeal of genre in general. Cause I, I, uh, from seeing you develop as a cartoonist and in school, my memories are that you were pretty much always working within genre and like traditional genre. So you're doing like vampire stuff. You've got your, uh, vampire Western. Um, I think when we were in school, you were doing, you would do the occasional espionage comic. Um, I don't know if you've done as much of that publicly sense, but, um, and I, you know, my stuff is very genre based as well. So I've got my own ideas about this, but um, do you want to talk about the appeal of genre a little more?
Speaker 1 00:20:38 Yeah. I think like we've actually talked about this before that it has like this established language that you can, you can kind of like rely to a certain point and like you've got these like signifiers about what's going on. So it's like something for a reader to like grasp onto really quickly and understand what you're trying to say without like as much legwork. And it's just like working within like existing stories to like make a new things.
Speaker 2 00:21:07 Yeah, totally. I was thinking about that and um, in relation to auto bio the other night too, cause it's like an auto bio, the genre is like real life, you know, like we all know the rules of real life, so it kind of does that legwork too, but it's just like when you have, you know, the Western, we all like know what the rules of the Western are. So the rules of how this thing works are all out of the way. And you can just tell your story.
Speaker 1 00:21:36 Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 00:21:37 Yeah. Cool. Um, so kind of staying along this line, do you want to talk about the experience of, um, doing and kind of being known for one thing? Um, is this, is this just my perspective where it's like, you're the vampire cartoonist or is this sort of a wider thing? Is this really what you're known for?
Speaker 1 00:22:04 Yeah. This is like, this is what I'm known for. And like I show up at conventions and like every comic on my table is about vampires. It usually says and like, whatever social media bio I have that I like vampires. So it has become like what I'm known for.
Speaker 2 00:22:24 Yeah. So how does that, uh, how does that work for you?
Speaker 1 00:22:27 I think it's, it's fun. Like other people that are into vampires will like immediately recognize vampires and like be excited to see something about vampires. I also like am asked if I have like an opinion on like any vampire comic or book or movie. And like sometimes I don't have an opinion and sometimes I've never heard of it. Um, and then like everyone asks me if I've seen what we do in the shadows. And like, of course I've seen it. Like
Speaker 2 00:22:57 <inaudible>, it's better. It's bad. What do you, yeah, I like it too.
Speaker 1 00:23:03 Yeah. Yeah. I saw it in theaters, so like I've seen it.
Speaker 2 00:23:15 Okay. Jeez. Um, do you find it limiting in any way? Do you feel like you, uh, do you feel yourself feeling boxed in at all ever or do you think you've got enough of a sandbox here to work on?
Speaker 1 00:23:29 I don't feel limited by it. Um, sometimes I think I'm better at like making vampire comics and that like not good enough at other things to like make other kinds of stories or that like people that like my vampire work won't necessarily like anything else that I do, but like when I get client work, um, if I'm like working with a writer or something, it's, it's never a vampire stuff like, like paid to make anything about vampires until this graphic novel, I guess.
Speaker 2 00:24:03 Is that a relief when you get to do something else or are you just kind of like, all right, we'll get this shit out of the way. And then I can get back to vampires.
Speaker 1 00:24:09 Uh, very much the second one before the graphic novel, like all of my client work was like, get the bills paid. Like I wasn't super attached to anything. It was just like, it was a job. It was like clocking in and drawings and things.
Speaker 2 00:24:28 Well, it's interesting to me too, that you say, uh, you don't feel like you're strong in other to do other kinds of comics. You have the one on your website about the, a wildfire. Um, just like big historic wildfire in Wisconsin. And, um, I thought that one for me actually kind of like really captured what I think is so good about your work, um, and that you've taken this, uh, natural event and personified it and made that thing relatable. Um, and I think you do that really well. And that comic was kind of a thrill for me too. Cause I feel like I'm like seeing something I'm not supposed to see when you're like publishing something. That's not vampires, but yeah, that's, that's interesting that you, uh, have those concerns.
Speaker 1 00:25:29 Oh, that's really great to hear about the pest to go fire comic. I haven't thought about that in a while. Cause I made it for an anthology, uh, like two or three years ago.
Speaker 2 00:25:38 Yeah. It's a beautiful comic. I think the way you've, uh, put your figures together in that is, um, really fantastic. It's a beautiful line work on there and then your colors are, are excellent as always. So do you, yeah. Do you have any ideas on where your style comes from? Cause I mentioned earlier, you feel like you have these very European sensibilities to me. And I think I've said this to you before. Um, and uh, talking about what you're reading as a kid and maybe we could talk about, um, more of what you're reading now, um, as part of this, but, uh, do you have any ideas of where this specific style is coming from? Cause it sounds like you, you were not necessarily reading stuff that looks like this.
Speaker 1 00:26:26 Uh, yeah, this my style like change very, very significantly. Probably like before we met and like started reading each other's comics in class. So like before M cat, I was like reading, I don't know, whatever, like popular comics were coming out at the time. I mean, they're, they're, they're good. They're fine. Um, but I, like, I wanted to draw like that. Like I wanted my work to look like that. And then like I got to M CAD and like was told to read like Isaac, the pirate and the rabbis cat and like miss don't touch me. And then I was like, Oh, I'm going to draw exactly like this. And that's what I do. So that was like pretty recent in the scheme of things.
Speaker 2 00:27:13 Well, that puts some pieces together for me because in the time that I've known you you've been like an exceptionally consistent cartoonist. Um, and I guess I just assume that you've always been that way. Um,
Speaker 1 00:27:27 I just saw something I liked and then I was like, I'm doing this now.
Speaker 2 00:27:32 Sure. So is that more of what you're reading lately? Is it more of this, a sort of European Isaac, the pirate kind of stuff? Or what do you, what are you reading these days?
Speaker 1 00:27:42 Um, that's a really, really good question. I kind of read everything. Like I keep up with whatever Kara's squad is publishing. Cause they're
Speaker 2 00:27:55 Say that again. I don't think I've ever heard of them.
Speaker 1 00:27:57 Kara squat, um, like beauty, um, beautiful darkness. Miss don't touch me.
Speaker 2 00:28:05 Yeah. This is all stuff I've never heard of.
Speaker 1 00:28:08 Well should look them up. Very, very cool. Cool. Curtaining um, I will send you a link. I reading some manga reading B stars, the like furry high school manga. That's kind of like the most recent thing. I haven't, I really haven't been reading a lot of comments.
Speaker 2 00:28:28 Yeah. I have taken kind of a break too, I think with, uh, all of the, uh, uprisings and shut downs and all of the fluctuations going on outside of I've found it more difficult to read lately.
Speaker 1 00:28:47 Yeah. I just kind of like, am not in the mood, I guess, to like seek out things and like get really excited about them. So if I am reading something, it's just to like turn my brain off at night. It's not to like, think about it.
Speaker 2 00:29:04 Yeah. I've been, I got a, uh, like old pulp magazine of true crime stuff from like 1951 that I've been reading at bedtime. It's just exactly that. Just something to turn your brain off. So I'm going back a little bit. Um, when you were talking about feeling like you didn't have a very good answer for, um, how you got into drawing vampire comics, I'm curious. So do you think that you have this experience of like, uh, this thing kind chose you versus you chose it?
Speaker 1 00:29:43 Yeah, that that's actually that describes it pretty well. I made one vampire comic for a class Adam CAD and it was like, it just like felt right. And it was like a bunch of things clicked and I just like wanted to keep telling stories about vampires.
Speaker 2 00:30:05 So when you, when you drew that comic and it was clicking and it was feeling right. Um, did you have like a really positive reaction from your peers at that moment too?
Speaker 1 00:30:16 Maybe.
Speaker 2 00:30:18 Yeah. I'm asking him, I'm asking. I was just reading like a history of, uh, of like turn of the century newspaper comics. And the thing that they like are so fixated on in that era is like, is the comic a hit? And so I've started stretching that out into like our own indie stuff and her own indie sensibilities and, you know, finding, uh, finding ways that like the thing hit, you know, Emma, when I was talking to ms. Harkness, she's talking about, um, the first time she did auto bio, everybody was like, Oh cool. So she had like this little hit there and it turned into this whole process.
Speaker 1 00:30:59 I don't think like I didn't get a great response from my class. I don't think. Yeah. I didn't have like a lot of like great responses from my classes, I think in my early and CAD years. And then like, I think my vampire comics did start getting like a little bit more attention on the internet, which is always like, like I love getting attention on the internet. Oh my God, it's the best. So I, that was like a great response. And like that also kind of keeps me going, like I kind of don't like admitting that, just like getting that hit of likes if I post a comic.
Speaker 2 00:31:39 Right. Well, I mean, it's one of the reasons I think, um, that that's super interesting to hear. Um, and to me it's just sounding like you're like a thorough, like through and through weirdo where you're just gonna fucking show up and do your thing and, uh, try to find a way to get everybody to like what you're doing versus the other way around, um, which I love. That's kind of one of the reasons that I'm so excited to be talking to you today and, uh, interviewing you is I feel like you've, you've been so consistent and so good. And so under talked about, and, um, I was kind of assuming maybe that was a little bit of my perception too, but it's something like you've kind of experienced that and that's not always like people are, uh, are talking about what you're doing, but I think, you know, in the time that I've known you, uh, everything I've seen from you has been fantastic. I do think you're starting to hit now. I mean, you got the Harper Collins, but coming up, so, Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:32:40 Like I'm coming to my stride. I'm popular online. I've got everything I ever wanted.
Speaker 2 00:32:46 He loves you. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:32:50 Um, but yeah, I mean, I guess to answer that, like if I was the only person in the world and I just would, like, I would probably still draw comics just for me. Like if I somehow like was the only person that existed and somehow knew what comics were because like that's how much I love them.
Speaker 2 00:33:11 Yeah. And that's kind of, that's kind of where my idea for this question about, uh, deciding to go major in comics comes from as I, I get that sense from you. I really do get that sense from you as a creator
Speaker 1 00:33:24 And yeah, it feels, it feels good. It feels validating to like, get attention for my work and like be paid pretty well to like make the book that I absolutely wants to be making. If I was like lived in obscurity, I would still be making comics probably not as often, but I would.
Speaker 2 00:33:46 Yeah. That's awesome. I wonder about that with myself sometimes. Cause I a, a, I rely on that, like, you know, the gratification from lakes and I, you know, I'm like constantly terrified that I'm like some fucking hack that is like, you know, doing hacky work. It is no good. And I need people to tell me that it's good so that I know that I should keep going. You know, I wonder about that with myself. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:34:14 And I like to like trace this back to my childhood and like, I mean, I got people praise me for drawing well, like adults and like other children. So I just am like still that like little kid that just like, wants to be told I'm the best at drawing.
Speaker 2 00:34:36 I mean, I think, I think we probably all are, you know, we're, uh, uh, it's well documented that there's not a lot of money in this business and, um, you know, we stick with it anyway. Um, I'm glad you got the books coming and I'm glad you're getting paid and I, and uh, you know, I'm glad that's working out and that's, you don't have to be scraping quite as much, although, you know, I'm sure it's not a ton of money on the book. All things considered.
Speaker 1 00:35:07 Um, yeah, like, I mean, it's like so much more than I've ever been paid for anything, but like works out to like a pretty like entry level salary at like any other job, but it's still like, it's great. And I hope I can continue doing this.
Speaker 2 00:35:25 I hope so too. And I, you know, I want to see your work continue to hit and spread and people put some money behind it while we're kind of talking about the graphic novel, little more here. Do you want to talk about, um, just kind of walk us through, getting work with Marvel and Disney and college humor, and then ultimately how that leads into, uh, working with Harper Collins?
Speaker 1 00:35:54 Yeah. Um, I, I don't know if like anything directly led to anything. Um, like when I was working with this, uh, with Disney, I was like assisting, like I was doing flats for someone else's graphic novel. Um, and that's how I met my agent. And then she was like very helpful in getting a book deal for me and like kind of like guiding me in making a book pitch, um, making the proposal, which I didn't, despite taking classes that I'm Kat, I did not really know how to put together a book proposal. So I think she was like crucial in like being able to get that and like having the right connections.
Speaker 2 00:36:43 So did she see your work and just be like, Hey, you got to start working on some of this stuff. Um, or how did that, how did that happen?
Speaker 1 00:36:53 Yeah, I think she got my name from when I started working on that book. Just like helping out on that book. Um, and then
Speaker 2 00:37:01 Which one was that for the flats fruit, we'll pick those up
Speaker 1 00:37:05 For, uh, Disney's the descendants graphic novel. Um, uh, so <inaudible> did the art for it and like some other people wrote it. I, I don't have it on hand.
Speaker 2 00:37:19 Yeah, sure. Well, you did the flats. It doesn't sound like you are. Sure. Cool. Um, how did the, uh, Marvel job happened? That was the squirrel girl you'd have one or two pages. Is that right?
Speaker 1 00:37:33 Yeah. I did like a couple pages over a few different issues. I don't know how that happens. Um, yeah, the editor just like emailed me and I did it and that's all. And I'm like,
Speaker 2 00:37:47 I think, I think that's a real Testament to the strength of your work that you get enough cold call from Marvel for squirrel girl. That was a moment we were talking. We were talking off Mike earlier that, uh, you know, jealousy among ourselves. And that was a moment when I walked into the comic shop and flip the book up and inside your stuff's other monthly page. And I was just like, this is so cool. And I'm so jealous.
Speaker 1 00:38:16 Yeah. I got to be in a book with honors Nelson and Garfield creator, Jim Davis, which I forget about all the time. It's super weird. Just like John Arbuckle, silver surfer wearing shorts for some reason. Thank you, Jen Davis.
Speaker 2 00:38:38 That's I forgot honors was in there. That's cool. Cause uh, you had classes from him, right?
Speaker 1 00:38:42 Yeah. I had one class with him. He said, he's a cool dude. He drew Wolverine shotgunning a beer with his claws. I love, I think that's the best part of that. The Xen issue of squirrel girl.
Speaker 2 00:38:56 Yeah. So you were what? You were just a couple of years out. I am CAD then. So you are taking classes from him and then you're published alongside them within a couple of years.
Speaker 1 00:39:05 Yeah, I guess that's cool. You didn't really think about it like that before. Yeah. I mean, like I did that job and then I was like also working at like a coffee chain and like getting up back to where I am to like make lattes for people that did not like me and did not say
Speaker 2 00:39:23 Don't read comics and about, yeah, Fred, he just looked at me like, none of you, none of you guys read copy,
Speaker 1 00:39:29 You went to art school. How's that working out for you, which is the worst thing to hear from a customer. And I wish I could like track all of them down right now and tell them like how I'm making a great living off of comics, but that's like really weird. And I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 2 00:39:48 I think we all feel that way though. Definitely. We all just want to rub it in their faces. You're making it happen. It's it's worth being proud of, you know? So you are on the tail end of the graphic novel now. Right. Are you mostly working on edits? Is that right?
Speaker 1 00:40:08 Yeah. And it's like, things like tweaking the cover. I'm like working on chapter openers. So just like the last few things and I'm just like lost momentum. And I feel like I'm trying to ring out a dry towel to get like the last drops of something of like comics making juice. I don't know.
Speaker 2 00:40:31 Yeah. Yeah. Before the project is on, there's always that kind of a was like a little bit of a, there's an excitement when you're finishing a project, but there's also that sort of nagging feeling of like, boy, I'm going to turn this thing in and then I don't know what I'm going to do.
Speaker 1 00:40:49 Yeah. Then I have to like write another graphic novel and start working on, I don't know if I can do that right now. That's just a lot.
Speaker 2 00:40:56 You does your contract stipulate that you really get moving on the next one right away? Or can you take some breathing room?
Speaker 1 00:41:03 I'm supposed to start on it, like traditional publishing, like everything takes forever. And so it would be pretty flexible, like if I wanted to move it back, but like if I push things back, I don't get paid as quickly also. So it's like up to me and like what, what I'm capable of doing, I guess. But yeah, I could definitely like push it back, I think. Hopefully. Yeah. Well, so you've
Speaker 2 00:41:34 Had a little bit of time then, um, being on the tail end here to, uh, get a good feel how many pages is upcoming one?
Speaker 1 00:41:43 Um, the cursive vampire is like 160 pages, I think. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:41:49 Yeah. So you've, you've had some time to kind of reflect on what it feels like to draw, you know, 20 pages, 30 pages versus 160 pages. Um, and this is the first time you've done a book of that length. So how, how has that transition been for you?
Speaker 1 00:42:07 It's been interesting. I feel like it's so inconsistent looking. Um, so I would like everyone when they read this book to like leave a month in between reading chapters, because it's divided into eight chapters. So just like leave some time and then so forget what it looks like.
Speaker 2 00:42:27 Yeah. Come back to it.
Speaker 1 00:42:29 I don't know if it's really that bad, but it's definitely like, like things change. If you're like drawing something for four months, like it's going to look different. Well maybe for me it looks different.
Speaker 2 00:42:42 I notice it. I definitely, as you get more comfortable with it, you know, you can design your characters as much as you want, but once you draw them 200 times for pages, you just start cartooning it a little different, you know, you just get your little tray.
Speaker 1 00:43:01 Yeah. And like, <inaudible> the main character they like, I've been drying them since 2016 and they look completely different now from like what they look like them. Like they used to have a neck, which I forgot about. And now they're just like their, their head is a circle and their body is a trying.
Speaker 2 00:43:24 Yeah. Well, so when you say you've been drawing them since 2016, is that the, uh, Halloween comics where they I'm assuming that's their first appearance that the trio,
Speaker 1 00:43:37 The trio's first appearance was actually in this like really short comic I made for a convention in like December of 2016. Like I first drew them like in the fall and then Halloween comics was the next year.
Speaker 2 00:43:52 Okay. So yeah. And then Halloween comics, that's the oldest version of them you have on your website then?
Speaker 1 00:43:58 Yeah, I think I've gotten rid of everything else because I am not as confident about how it looks like. I've just like the way I've drawn his chain.
Speaker 2 00:44:06 Well, I, uh, read all of the stuff on your website and the first chapter of the new book and I did notice it looking different. So I've, I think I'm a pretty careful reader. So I think you're probably safe.
Speaker 1 00:44:20 Well, cool. It's all in my head.
Speaker 2 00:44:24 Well, that's so much time with him, right? Yeah. He spent so much time with them when you start to see those details. Yeah. And the thing about
Speaker 1 00:44:32 These past few months in like quarantine locked down, like, all I have to do is like, look at my book and worry about my book and work on my book. And like, it's been kind of efficient for finishing it because I haven't been like traveling because I normally go to conventions and do other things, but it's also like, just like hyper-focusing on it, which isn't super healthy all the time.
Speaker 3 00:45:01 So I do everything I'm so hyper focused on it. Try myself crazy. <inaudible>.
