Speaker 1 00:00:30 And streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Liz Alz tonight on right on radio David FedEx talks with Shauna Compton. She is the author of the new poetry collection. Creature sounds, creature sounds fade from black Lawrence press and three other poetry collections. Her poems have appeared in the nation. The American poetry review
Speaker 0 00:00:58 Makes Sweeney's
Speaker 1 00:00:59 And a host of other publications. Shauna is the founding author of Bluth books and is also a freelance book designer
Speaker 0 00:01:10 And I'm Josh Webber. And the last part of the hour, Liz old's talks with award-winning author Kelly Bowen. She grew up in Manitoba, Canada and worked as a research scientist and a veterinarian before realizing her dream of writing historical fiction. Currently she lives in Winnipeg with her husband and two sons all the, some more. So stay tuned to write on radio. Hi Shana.
Speaker 2 00:01:40 Hi David. I can't see you welcome to the program. Thank you for having me
Speaker 3 00:01:45 Shanna before we get started. Uh, we love to have our poets on here and especially from a black Lawrence press. Um, yeah, yeah. I'm going to ask her, yeah, I'm going to ask you about a particular author whom you note in the notes when we've had on our program before, but we'll talk about that later and in your, in your notes section anyway, so before we get started with a reading, Shannon, why don't you tell us a little bit about your relationship to poetry, if you would please, uh, by that, I mean, when you started writing it or reading it, um, and, uh, who you like to read and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 00:02:22 The first time I remember having anything to do with poetry, um, was in about third grade. I had a teacher who assigned us to write a poem during class and, uh, I didn't want to do it. And I was sent over to the side of the room, um, being pretty pouty about it. And, uh, I ended up writing what I saw in front of me, uh, Tom, about a sailboat, uh, on which I'd never been on a sailboat. I lived in the middle of Texas. Um, and, uh, there was a picture of a sailboat on the side of the reading exercise box that was in of me on the desk. And I wrote the poem about that. And, uh, you know, I think she liked it and we did a little Xen of poems for the class and some of the students drew pictures and we all wrote poems and we sold it to our parents as a fundraiser for the, for the school or whatever. And, um, you know, after that, I was a lot less reluctant and I S I wrote poems and I don't think I ever stopped after that. I love
Speaker 3 00:03:23 That. I'm glad I asked you. That's a great story. That's amazing. So who do you like to read?
Speaker 2 00:03:29 Uh, I read him a wide variety of things. I mean, I've read a lot of poetry, obviously, because I work as a book designer. I'm always reading all kinds of things. Um, it's hard sometimes for me to have conversations about what's current, because I'm always reading at least a year or two ahead because I'm working on things that haven't come out yet. Cool. Um, but I, I do a lot of children's books. I read a lot of poetry. Um, I liked nonfiction. I love novels, you know? Um, it's hard to get specific. Yeah,
Speaker 3 00:03:55 Sure. Sure. Well, I want to talk to you about your designing too, but let's start with a reading. Now, if you don't mind, do you have a particular poem you'd like to share with us?
Speaker 2 00:04:04 Um, I'm not going to read the first one with the book because I've made a film of it and you can hear me reading that one online. It's already everywhere. So I'm going to read the second poem of the book called names for storms. Okay.
Speaker 3 00:04:15 So before you do that, so you made a film of the eyes, have woods, uh, would that
[email protected] I'm guessing, or was that somewhere else? We can find it. I think
Speaker 2 00:04:23 It's somewhere on Shannon compton.com. It's also on the publisher website. If you go to black lawrence.com and I'm on my book page, it's at the top of the page there and it's somewhere on Vimeo. I only have one book, one video on my channel, but I have a channel there. Hey, listeners,
Speaker 3 00:04:37 You heard it go out there and do a search for that. Okay, go ahead please. Jenna,
Speaker 2 00:04:42 This one's names for storms. I can't hear myself for the howling several dozen states away. The wadding stuffed under the cap of the decade. It's true. I can't see my hand in front of my face because it's clutching a stone in my left pocket and image of a wind sock at once fiercely in the feeble orange, the darkening palpable at the first pelted drops. We smell the charge in the air. The same moment we detect the quiver in the skin of the dog at her feet, the backs of our thighs embossed, a plush pattern of flowers ganged up on the threadbare, armchair, the bursting of glass at each window, successive percussive, a silence series between the booms of tossed trash cans in the street. The crack of a twig snapped full the fizz of the downed wires, the television already lifting it's heavy feet.
Speaker 3 00:05:46 That's Shannon Compton read from her new collection. Creature sounds fade. That's a great poem to start with Shannon because it's, I think these are a lot we could talk about. Um, in part let's just with the title of your collection, creature sounds, fade, um, and it's in Perez. And as you read this poem, we encountered sounds, um, which are denoted by Perrins and large, uh, caption, that sort of thing. Uh, tell us what you were thinking when, um, without giving away too much because the reader is supposed to have the experiences. I mean, it's a, it's
Speaker 2 00:06:22 Okay to talk about the conceit of the, of the, of the captions, uh, they're closed captions. Uh, I started losing my hearing when I was in my twenties, uh, due to a genetic hearing loss. We don't really know what he does. My sister has the same thing. And as, as my hearing started to fade, um, I, I didn't notice it wasn't very dramatic at first and it got, I got less and less from the world around me. And, uh, the closed captions are my attempt to bring focus back to some of the sounds I had lost that I regained when I started using hearing aids and, uh, other assistive technologies. So while I can't say that I'm, I'm deaf per se, uh, not technically. Um, I am definitely hard of hearing and it definitely impacts my daily life. And as a poet, we know how important our ears are to us.
Speaker 2 00:07:12 And the sounds of the words and the, the voices of the poets that we listened to. And that we hear in our heads when we're reading are very important and the sounds of nature, very important to me and all of those things started to go. And, um, as I kind of came back, uh, to the world is a better hearing once I got the hearing aids and, and, you know, had talked to my audiologist, the little nonverbal sounds that I had been missing, um, took on a great importance for me. I realized how much they conveyed about the situation that I was in about the environment that I was in, how they helped me orient myself in a room for instance, or out in the woods while where I was hiking or, um, you know, it's very easy to startle someone who can't hear you coming.
Speaker 2 00:07:55 So it it's, um, it's it's, as, as I was writing these poems, it didn't, um, I didn't start out having that as a theme, but I was writing them along the same around the same time. Cause I was kind of coming to terms with that and getting some of my hearing back through these technologies and it, it just became a part of the way I noticed. And so I want the reader to notice those little sounds that, um, are here represented, you know, with words printed on a page or, or my voice when I read them, but I want to give them extra emphasis by making them bigger than they really are, uh, by, by showing them as close captions would be, if you're watching a movie, uh, with the captions on or something like that,
Speaker 3 00:08:36 Very effective, I'm a little bit chagrined that I didn't pick that up. That it's a closed captioning technique. I'm not ashamed.
Speaker 2 00:08:43 I don't think it says anywhere in the book. So,
Speaker 3 00:08:46 But once you say it, it makes perfect sense. Uh, I thought it was a great technique to, of course, as you just described, highlight those sounds and, um, you can't help hearing them as you're reading the poems, um, much more than you would otherwise if they were not in Perez and not in caps. And, uh, so on very, very effective, uh, creature sounds, um, nature is, is in these poems and you, you hinted at this. Um, but yet there's some great human moments in here too. Um, so what's your relationship and you hinted at this in your last question, but what's your relationship with nature and, um, how you intentionally brought nature and animals and that sort of thing into these poems?
Speaker 2 00:09:29 Uh, I th the original title for the book or the working title of before I landed on this one was fellow animals. Um, because I was sort of seeing myself as part of the nature around me and as an animal, as a creature myself, um, as a living thing as a, I think I turned into a fungus and one of the poems. Um, so it's, it's all about, uh, the environment and my connection to it. Um, and the, and the way the sounds sort of, uh, provide that sort of connective tissue and, and, uh, the way I was growing it back, uh, maybe that's maybe a little too literal, but I was thinking about all those things. And, um, I just, I spent a lot of time outside hiking and walking and, uh, live on a river. So all of that's all around me all the time. I moved away from New York city, um, several years ago. And while it's still definitely part of my poetics and psyche of the time that I spent there, it's, uh, I didn't, I didn't grow up in a city and I don't live in one now. So, you know, when, if I'm in a field or surrounded by trees, I'm usually I feel more like myself.
Speaker 3 00:10:28 So you are the narrator, this is your point of view for some poems, some poets it's, it's very safe and easy to assume that the poet that's the poet's voice that we're hearing. Uh, but it wasn't always clear to me that that was the case. Like maybe you were channeling someone or something else and, and that's to your credit. Uh, it is Shannon's voice in all of these poems, or are you, uh, playing around with
Speaker 2 00:10:51 It? I was, I was talking with my spouse about that earlier. I think these more so than some of the earlier books where I had a lot of characters speaking, um, it's, it's difficult for me sometimes as a poet to, uh, confront myself very directly. So I do often have, uh, speakers who are not me. Um, but in this one, it turns out that because I was paying such close attention to my personal experience, as I was writing the poems, they ended up mostly being spoken by someone who, if not me, is very like me. Right. Makes sense.
Speaker 3 00:11:23 I wonder if we could take a look at 20 motels, a particular poem I'm 47, I'm sure you haven't memorized. And if, and if you wouldn't mind reading it, there was so many wonderful lines in here. Uh, I don't know that everyone reads poetry, uh, and of course we think they should, uh, once in a while, at least. Uh, but if you could read this and maybe we'll talk a little bit about it and, and some of these lines of poetry is a pleasure to read, even if you end the poem and you're not really sure what you just read, but, uh, if you've heard something or felt something along the way it made you stop and think that's good enough. As far as I'm concerned, it's a bit of a meditation at any rate. So 20 motels, if you wouldn't mind, please,
Speaker 2 00:12:09 Sure. 20 motels and the first motel we ditched our parents. And the second one we got caught after a dozen, I remember a green one flickering like a Stripe on the highway. We blinked and passed in the 15th motel. I slept alone, but the bed was crowded with Greece and another halfway between two borders, north and south three languages and every line transgressed each most, each motel, the set of a terrible play, the motel with stairs inside. So a hotel, really the small squarish bed, we laughed about the sketch I made of you on the bus. The motel just far enough away, where the eyes from the plastic bucket turned to rentals along our skins, the one with the pool at which all the lights ate. And I existed as a cabinet of men, a family, my sticky hinge, every circular, Dragway, uncanny, and familiar culminating in the handing over of a key, the scent. When you enter each room, the odor, when you leave it, the perpetual abandoned abandonment of perpetuity, each room breathing like the space is left in a loaded sentence on each Bardo bed, a suspect pillow to which you can only succumb.
Speaker 3 00:13:32 Thank you, 20 motels, Shannon Compton. I love this poem. Uh, I don't know how most of us can relate to all or most of this poem, um, for your literal description of motels along the way, but, uh, phrases like, but the bed was crowded with grief. Um, the one with the pool at which all the lights ached there, there's something about a motel pool pool lighting, which, um, well, it's, it's really depressing, I think, anyway, the central, when you enter each room to order when you leave it and so on, uh, where did this poem come from?
Speaker 2 00:14:08 Um, it's, I don't think there actually 20 motels in the poem. I've never counted them, but I don't think I have, but I don't know how many there are. I don't th sometimes the, the way the title relates to the poem is not, um, you know, very direct, but I it's, I started out writing, um, probably some of the first phrases in the poems, and then I just sort of let the associations have one road trip and motel stop, take me to the next. And so it becomes in the poem almost like it's one long trip. Um, but it was actually several. But what, but when you think about that and when you turned it into a poem, you, you sort of realized how all of those experiences are always linked. You know, they take, take place over many years and with different people and, and, uh, different countries and different times and places, it, it does kind of, there's a continuity that forms underneath them. When you look at them as the same kind of experience in the same kind of place. And like you said, the, the lights and the pool area at a motel, a roadside motel somewhere at night, um, are, are very beautiful, but there is something special about them in the sense they're, they're unlike. Yeah. They're unlike other places. And so that's the kind of feeling I was going for
Speaker 3 00:15:22 That. And I love this on each borrowed bed, a suspect pillow. If we all don't think of that phrase, the next time we stay motel of borrowed bed, I've never thought of a hotel or a motel bed is borrowed, but it is in a suspect Pell pillow, indeed. That's for sure. Um, and a bit of humor in here, the motel with stairs inside. So a hotel really, uh, is that the, is that the definition I've always wondered.
Speaker 2 00:15:46 I mean, it seemed to me to be a definition when I was writing, I was actually like made fun of myself. Yeah. I'm going to go with it.
Speaker 3 00:15:52 I'm going to quote you on it, but let's stay with this poem and talk about form. Uh, listeners could hear you breaking at various points, but you weren't breaking at the end of the line necessarily. You were breaking within lines. One of your, uh, form techniques, if you will, or models is to break the line in the middle, like a lot, a lot of space on the same line between words. I'm not describing this well, you're the designer. Shannon. Why don't you describe for us what these poems look like and why you chose this particular forum? Because it's about the book.
Speaker 2 00:16:26 It's, it's something that come up that came up a lot. When I was writing the poems in this book that I hadn't really used before, but other poets have used it, um, CB right. Uses as a lot. Um, in my case, I use it as a form punctuation, almost, um, the gap, I guess what I call it a gap in the line. It's like a, it's a, it's usually eight or nine spaces. Um, it it's just enough to separate one part of the line from the other, so that they feel, uh, different yet still connected. They're on the same line. So you do sometimes hear me, um, pause or kind of pronounce the gap a little bit, um, a little it's a little bit stronger than a comma. Um, but it's also sometimes an intuitive, uh, leap. And so you may not hear it. Uh, I haven't actually studied very closely the way I read the poems versus what's on the page. Um, to me, they all make sense, but they may not all be doing exactly the same thing. It's either a, it's either a pause, um, in the sound, in my mind, or it's me making a little bit of a leap from one part of the learning to the next.
Speaker 3 00:17:26 Okay. Yeah. I love having these conversations with poets about the shape that poems take, because they really do as a designer. Do you see the poem on the page? Is that important to you? What it looks like?
Speaker 2 00:17:38 It's very important to what it looks like. Um, I, I used to write everything longhand, um, back in the day, you know, before we had so many easy keyboards, like in all of our pockets, but I don't do that anymore. Um, I definitely, um, typically write, um, on my computer or on my iPad. And then w what comes later, the way, the way the poem kind of flows out. I, I do tend because I've been doing this for such a long time now to, to have, um, uh, an organizing principle that I kind of let organize things as they're, as it's coming out. So whether it's couplets or triplets or, uh, quatrains or these gaps, or I'll have a couple of words that I want to use X number of times, and I'll just keep playing with the phrase until I get that word in three or four times, whatever, or, or a sound.
Speaker 2 00:18:26 It doesn't have to be a word. Um, so I, I play, um, you know, they're not formal as foams in a traditional sense, but I do play, um, sort of style games and, and sound games and formal linkages are important to me. And they helped me sort of move the poem along in a way that the, the logic of the poem and me just sitting in the, in the chair thinking does it, it kind of frees me up to go along where the poem is taking me, um, by being very mechanical. And part of that is the way they look. Um, and I I'm, I'm very particular about the font, the typeface that I, that I write in and all that stuff. I'm not, I, I just, I can't ride into San Sarah if I love San serif typefaces, but I don't like them for poetry or from body text.
Speaker 2 00:19:10 So I always write a Sarah font and, uh, and the gaps are, are important. Um, I don't want lots of white space when I'm writing. So I tend to put things in the middle of my screen and shut everything else out. And then I, as I get to the revision stage, um, I actually type everything up on a manual typewriter, which is a whole different experience. It takes the, it takes the speed and ease out of the computer sort of transactions. So then later they, they tend to change shape. When I look at them in a more analog format, if that makes sense, like the way the computer makes everything easy to move around the manual, typewriter does not, I have to be more deliberate. Yeah. It's a different process.
Speaker 3 00:19:48 You can't say the word font. There's probably font geeks listening right now. And then some in the studio. What's your favorite font?
Speaker 2 00:19:56 I mean, I have many that I use for lots of reasons, but I think this is an Adobe chasm, Peru. Whoa,
Speaker 3 00:20:02 Hey, thumbs up from Josh. Yep. He made him have a class. I thought I thought Baskerville has one too, but, um, anyway, I like that, like Baskerville. Baskervilles beautiful. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Um, how about another poem? Cause we're getting dangerously close to this, the end of our conversation already. And uh, we need to hear poetry from you.
Speaker 2 00:20:24 Sure. Um, let's see.
Speaker 3 00:20:27 I've marked a number of them, but if you go ahead and
Speaker 2 00:20:30 Oh, if you have a request be happy.
Speaker 3 00:20:32 Oh gosh. Um, I've got misnomer on page 55. I don't remember why mark that down. So, uh, hopefully there's, you know, nothing we can't see on the radio because those tend to appeal to me. I don't think so,
Speaker 2 00:20:44 But I'll skip it if not skip it. So this is misnomer misnomer. I couldn't write today. And the face of that bomb, which makes me wonder how we ever can, but talking to ourselves and each other in palms, as a matter of coping, when I'm angry, that poems do nothing, I am angry and poems do appear to hold it. I run over the brim of the bowl. I hold my arms out to the trashed earth and all its frightened and ferocious people. I make no space for that man here, who means biggest, best, most fantastic, most lethal when he says mother, but he grabs my space. Nevertheless, headlines, airtime, theoretical lives. He doesn't bother to imagine spreadsheets full of numbers, numbers full of awful prophet. I'm awful as a prophet, but I know poems will burst from us. Nevertheless, no that Moab was both brother and son to his mother who, whose mother turned back for a final look at the burning world. Maybe she is the mother meant mother of bombs, mother, brothers, sons, daughter, mother of a lot of whoa, who burst as we burst our dams, our whore, our burst and air. Yeah. I skipped the F on there for sure.
Speaker 1 00:22:04 And we got a Moab.
Speaker 3 00:22:05 I mentioned that's always a highlight. Uh, so thank you for that. That's misnomer by, uh, Shannah Compton. Uh, when I'm angry that poems do nothing. I am angry and poems do appear to hold it. Um, you're deep into the book world. You have a very, you've looked like a very cool person, all the books and they're back on there. We're looking at her in zoom, uh, ladies and gentlemen. And, uh, how has poetry fared during COVID Shana you're you're in the book world? Um, is, is it more relevant for people? What do you think?
Speaker 2 00:22:39 I do think I did. I saw, especially in the beginning, a lot of people sharing, um, poems about the situation, uh, the, the loneliness and isolation and the disconnectedness. Um, and I, I saw a lot of people writing about it as who a lot of my public friends were sort of addressing the daily reality and how different it suddenly was. And it seemed to kind of come out of nowhere. Um, one thing that I do with some friends every year is write a poem every day in the month of April. And that happened last year, right after we all got locked down. And so all of our poems were dealing with us on a daily basis, you know, and what happens when you're writing every day is what's right in front of you comes in. And so there was a lot of that. And I, I do think, um, I saw people sharing new homes, old homes, uh, going back to favorites and did the act of connecting with somebody by, you know, posting a page from a book you're reading on Instagram and having people respond to it, um, was we, cause we lost being able to do that in person, all of our readings were canceled all of the poetry, uh, events that we typically go to and see each other read out for all canceled.
Speaker 2 00:23:46 And, um, you know, until just recently, I wasn't even acclimated to zoom, so I wasn't even doing any of that. We were missing that. And so I think I didn't see extra sharing poems, um, small presses and poetry presses, uh, throughout the pandemic have not fared all that. Well, totally to be totally honest, like financially it's always tough, but you know, people were sort of hunkering down and, and uh, you know, a lot of people lost work and weren't, weren't spending as much money on books and we'll, we'll just wait it out, but it's two different things. Really.
Speaker 3 00:24:15 Yeah. Um, you have a note section, you don't often encounter that in a poetry book, but, uh, it's pretty cool. And you mentioned Becca Klaver, uh, and, uh, we have had her on the show. I just need to, you know, shout out to Becca. I'm sure she's listening to somewhere
Speaker 2 00:24:31 That's is great. My favorites.
Speaker 3 00:24:34 Okay. Very good. Uh, we're nearing the end here. Uh, what are you working on next? And um, when can we expect to hear from you again?
Speaker 2 00:24:41 Uh, I've been working off and on, on a long narrative poem. Um, that's, uh, gone through several titles and it's currently been put aside because the pandemic made it not what I wanted to write. It's about a woman, a young woman wandering alone through a blended landscape. So it didn't seem like, well, that's what I will return to it, but it didn't seem like a thing that I should be spending most of my days doing when I was already locked down without company. So
Speaker 3 00:25:09 I look forward to that. I hope you let us know white chrysanthemum, a nice long poem in this collection, ladies and gentlemen is really special poem, uh, and worth it worth the price of admission right there. Uh, Shannah Compton, uh, uh, author of creature sounds fade a poetry collection from black Lawrence press. What a treat to have you. Thank you for joining us tonight.
Speaker 2 00:25:30 Thank you so much, David. It's been a pleasure. Great.
Speaker 3 00:25:32 And now this <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:25:53 Kelly, are you there? I sure am. Oh, great. I can hear you in everything.
Speaker 1 00:26:00 Some of our headphones don't work. We're a small radio station. We're staying with Kelly Bowen and author of the Paris apartment. And why don't you start with giving us a little synopsis of the book, no spoilers and a doula reading from it
Speaker 4 00:26:16 Sounds great. Okay. Uh, I will do my best to not put any spoilers in this. Um, this book is a dual narrative, so, uh, it has both the past and present timeline. Uh, the past timeline being set during world war II and, uh, the present, uh, narrative that starts, uh, in present day Paris with Leah who has inherited and apartments, uh, from her grandmother whom, uh, she knows, uh, nobody in our family knew anything about this apartment. She never knew it existed. Uh, and when she walks into this apartment, she finds this apartment is hasn't been touched in decades and decades. And as she walks into this apartment, she finds a lot of arts, uh, lots and lots of art, and also some things in the apartment that makes her think that perhaps, uh, the art perhaps was not, um, was not, uh, acquired, um, in a good way.
Speaker 4 00:27:11 Uh, she thinks that the art may have been stolen during the, um, during the occupation of Paris. Uh, one of the paintings that she comes across is a small obscure painting and that painting, uh, leads her to an art store, Gabriel Seymour, and together, they start to try and piece together the mystery of this abandoned apartment and the art that's found in it. And what they find is that their families actually have reconnected in the past. And, uh, Chris crossed through history and, uh, at the end they discover the legacy that that's, uh, that, that past has left behind.
Speaker 4 00:27:54 And I will read, uh, just a short snippet here from the first chapter. Um, and I'll preface it by saying, uh, that Leah has entered this apartment that she is knowing nothing about. Um, she is starting to think that her grandmother was someone else that she, uh, never knew. Uh, so here we go. Leah tore her gaze from the paintings and continued through the dining room, stepping into a hallway on her rights. A doorway opened up into a kitchen with a tiny stove, a small refrigerator, and a deepest sink set into a countertop free of clutter, say for a single crystal tumbler, just to her left, a set of French doors stood open the dim outline of a four poster bed. Identifying this last space as a bedroom, as in the living room lights, as sunlight from tall windows were visible on the fall wall.
Speaker 4 00:28:45 Leah entered the room, skirted the bed and with a great deal, more care than she had taken earlier, ease the heavy curtains open in the light. The room was a decidedly feminine space. The walls papered in a shade of rose the edges near the ceiling, only slightly yellowed and discolored the room consisted of a double bed addressing table and a chair and an enormous wardrobe, all carved with a provincial flair. The bed was neatly made and the linens would squash would likely be the same here, rose. He was the walls. The room was impeccably, tidy, safer garment that had been tossed carelessly on top of the smooth color lips, crumbled and forgotten and dulled by dust. It was an evening gown. The realized moving to lift it by its thin straps, a stunning creation of lemon, yellow chiffon, and crate beaded with crystals and something that would have been obscene the expensive, no matter what century it had been purchased in, not something that one would toss aside like the pair of old socks bewildered.
Speaker 4 00:29:36 She let the dress drop back to the bed and I, the narrow arch doorway in the corner beside the wardrobe, it led into what looked like a modern walk in closets, a dressing room. The guest though, there was almost no space to walk in on both sides, dresses, and gowns and furs and coats hung crammed together. Spilling out on top of one another in such numbers that Leah couldn't even see the back wall. Good heavens Leah mumbled the excess hard to comprehend. She backed away and cautiously opened the wardrobe next expecting to be inundated with another jumble of extravagance, but the wardrobe was almost empty. The cavernous interior leading only a half dozen gallons. These gallons protected from years of dust were collection of Crutcher, silks and satins. Each one, exquisitely embroidered, applicate, and detailed Leah ran her fingers along the length of the Sapphire colored skirt and pulled her hand back afraid that she would soil the fabric.
Speaker 4 00:30:25 She closed the Warburg wardrobe and rested her forehead against the double doors. The gowns, the shoes, the first, there was a fortune including here, just like there was a fortunate, fine furnishings and find arch and all of it hidden for over 70 years, Leah lifted her head and took a steadying breath. Assumptions never ended well. A career dedicated to science had taught her that she would give her grandmother the benefit of the doubt. She would not believe the worst until such time as she was presented with irrefutable proof, feeling a little better, Leah headed back towards the bedroom doors, but stopped abruptly. As she caught sight of her reflection, a little tarnished and spotted the mirror mounted above the dressing table. Nonetheless revealed the trouble lines. It's still fused lyrically as features almost involuntarily. She sank onto the little chair, ignoring the desk, not taking her eyes off her reflection.
Speaker 4 00:31:12 Had her grandmother been the last to be reflected in this mirror. And if Leah could go back in time, what would she have seen? Whom would she had seen her eyes dropped back to the surface of the dressing table, a collection of decorative glass bottles huddled in the center, a pair of women's gloves, latest scar to beside them abandoned where they had been dropped beside the gloves propped up against the bottom of the mirror was a small card, a postcard of some sort, Leah thought as she reached for it. It was a black and white photo of a LA moving building. A row of Roman call-ins lining the entire facade, like an ancient temple, an impressive display of architecture marked only by the Nazi flags napping proudly in the wind and the foreground dread returned and manifested into something far more sinister, very fully. Leah turned the postcard over for the lovely Estelle it read and scrolled faded ink with thanks, Hermann Goring. And I'll leave it there. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:32:06 That's uh, a good beginning. Uh, nice, uh, uh, a nice start for the story. It sets it up very well. Uh, we're speaking with Kelly Bon author of the Paris apartment. Now I'm curious in your bio, it says that you have also been a research scientist in the veterinarian, and I'm wondering, uh, it said that your dream was to write historical fiction. Why was that a dream?
Speaker 4 00:32:40 I have always been an amateur historian. Um, from the time I was very, very young, uh, both my grandfathers served in the war and, um, my one grandfather in particular had a huge collection of, uh, of books and maps and research material. Uh, that was his own personal collection when I was young, I would remember reading them, uh, probably when they were far over my head, but that those books kind of captured my imagination and that kind of interest in history followed me all the way through, even though I did do my degree in science
Speaker 1 00:33:16 And why, well, you sort of answered this question, but I just want to know out of all the historical, uh, areas you could have, uh, dealt with why world war II,
Speaker 4 00:33:29 Uh, I really enjoy, um, I find the conflict, uh, itself, uh, very interesting. Um, probably driven mostly by my family's own, um, experience in it. Um, I also writes, uh, I also write historical romance as well as historical fiction in a different time periods. Um, but for historical fiction, uh, absolutely, uh, world war two is specific, especially, uh, has always been an area of interest of mine and I've loved writing since I was little, uh, and it wasn't until I had my first child that I actually kind of had the time and sat down and started writing, I guess, for real, like with an intent to, to write and complete an entire novel.
Speaker 1 00:34:14 Well, all writing is real, but I understand what you're saying. Um, I'm curious in terms of the idea of the book, which came first to you, the knowledge of the pictures, and then the story about world war II, or was it the story about world war two? And you've found the knowledge of the pictures in your research?
Speaker 4 00:34:36 Um, probably a little bit of both. Um, this, this story itself, uh, was inspired, um, by the disorient department that was found, uh, abandoned for a number of years, uh, in Paris, which was quite fascinating, but also, um, specifically by, uh, the discovery of the girl at hoard in Munich, um, which was a huge art collection that was discovered. Um, and so I guess to answer the question, uh, that kind of got me, that was kind of the basis of the inspiration for that book. And then on top of that, um, the role of women in world war II has always been very, very interesting to me and specifically how it differed very much on the, both the Eastern and Western fronts. Uh, so I worked that into the story as well.
Speaker 1 00:35:27 Yes, I, I will want to talk about that in a moment, but first I just want to talk about your research. I mean, you must have been, you must have done incredible amount of research and I have several questions. How much of it was primary sources, diaries, and letters, and so on?
Speaker 4 00:35:47 Uh, um, I do, when I do my research, I do, uh, try as much as possible. You can start with the history books, which give you dates and times and numbers. Um, but I do try to, when I do my research as much as possible, try to go to original sources and, uh, in a lot of cases, um, because of the, the date and we're quite a bit past it conflict, um, that's memoirs or letters or diaries. So a good portion of my research is definitely, uh, based on memorize. I love not only knowing what happened, but what that particular person who lived through it experienced what they saw, what they felt, uh, just kind of how they were thinking. Um, I find that I find that part just fascinating.
Speaker 1 00:36:33 Yes, very fascinating. I love primary sources myself, although, you know, sometimes they're hard to find as well. Um, was there any particular books that you really enjoyed or that you would recommend to someone who was interested in learning more about, well about this aspect of world war two, for example?
Speaker 4 00:36:52 Absolutely. So, um, my two characters, Sophie and Estelle, um, mainly Sophie, and to some extent it's still that, um, drive the past narrative, um, we're based on SOE agents. So the first women, um, that were sent into con into combat on the Western front and, um, two of the books I enjoyed the most, um, was Virginia Hall's memoirs. Um, and it's called the wolves at the door, um, by Judith Pearson. And that's a fascinating read. I definitely recommend that one. And the second one that I really, really enjoyed, uh, was, uh, code named Pauline. And that was Pearl Witherington cornioley story. And, um, that's edited by Catherine Atwoods. So if you were looking for two memoirs of women in combat, the SOE agents that were dropped behind enemy lines, I would definitely recommend those two
Speaker 1 00:37:43 Where there a woman I know in world war one, there were women, ambulance drivers, quite quite a lot of women, ambulance drivers. Did that, was that true in world war II as well?
Speaker 4 00:37:53 Yeah. So in world war two, I mean, women got involved right away, like immediately. Um, but for the most part, it's the specifically on the Western front, they were in more of a supporting role. So they ferried the airplanes, but they weren't actually allowed to take those airplanes into combat or, um, they provided, you know, they worked in factories, they worked in agriculture, they did so much kind of behind the scenes. Um, whereas on the Western front, um, with, uh, with the, uh, the way that Russia was invaded, um, you had, um, snipers and tank gutters and fighter pilots that were all women, uh, stolen used women in much differently than, um, than the generals on the west did. And that, that kind of juxtaposition is quite quite quite interesting to me.
Speaker 1 00:38:43 It seems to be, I remember it, was there a movie about a woman's diaper or what was it a book? I just, this is completely
Speaker 4 00:38:53 Probably, well, probably both. Um, I've also also have those net wars. Um, my favorite one, um, uh, is called lady deaths and, um, that's, uh, a memoir of stolen sniper and, uh, that's one of my favorites. Uh, and also, uh, there's a number of memoirs and books about, um, the fighter pilots, um, specifically the night witches, which they dropped bombs, are they on, uh, German targets? And they were all women, lots of them were teenagers. Uh, they were synced up, uh, you know, no radar, no, none of the, none of the gadgets that we had, or even some of their male, their, their male colleagues would have had. Um, they were just absolute, they were heroes. They were so courageous. I can't even imagine reading some of their stories.
Speaker 1 00:39:48 And w what kind of difficulties did you have in the research and maybe the writing? I mean, this was a very emotional book to read, and I, I wonder about the difficulties of that as well as the research,
Speaker 4 00:40:01 Um, difficulties, the research, um, the research being, being kind of a historian. Uh, the research is I love it. It's the best part, best part of, one of the best parts of this job, for sure. Um, uh, when I couldn't find something, um, that, you know, in a book or a memoir, um, I certainly reached out to historians who are far more knowledgeable and learned that myself, uh, reached out to Bletchley park, reached out to the monuments men. Uh, David Kenyon was a big help, uh, in terms of, uh, the Lorenzo cipher machines that is mentioned in this book as part of this book. Um, so yeah, I'm not afraid to ask questions, that's, that's for sure. Uh, there's so many people out there with so much incredible knowledge, um, and the writing itself, um, because this was a past narrative and a present narrative. Um, I don't know if it was difficult, but it was certainly a challenge. Um, making sure when I switched in between the narratives that I didn't have any repetitive storytelling in my story, or I didn't jar the reader into, you know, into the past and then back into their presence. Uh, so it was a little bit, uh, yeah, had to be a little bit careful with that. I don't know if it would be difficult, but definitely a challenge.
Speaker 1 00:41:17 Uh, and why did you choose to go back and forth? I think he may have said this in your intro, but I'd like to revisit it. Um, what made you choose to go back and forth as a S as a form?
Speaker 4 00:41:30 I, I liked the idea of, um, the present day generation, um, learning that, uh, say, uh, there, for example, for Leah, that her grandmother was not who she thought she was, that her grandmother was actually a very different person, uh, years and years ago. Um, I liked the idea of them being able to kind of solve, solve the mystery, um, and learning about their family and the process and learning about the sacrifices people made, uh, in the past. And, um, also, uh, so that, by the end, when they're, when the Lia is presented with the legacy that was left behind, uh, by her grandmother, um, the reader had a much better understanding of what, what costs it came up.
Speaker 1 00:42:22 Um, this is kind of a, a risky question, cause he may say, no, it's not, but, uh, I was reading your acknowledgements and you mentioned Josephine baker. And I was wondering if that's the Josephine baker, musician and vocalist,
Speaker 4 00:42:39 Uh, the Joseph Josephine baker of the banana outfits. Yes, yes. That would be Josephine baker, uh, who I did a little spy work through her music. Um, so she, uh, she was a regular fixture at a number of the cabarets in Paris and, uh, she certainly did her part.
Speaker 1 00:42:58 Wow. Wow. I didn't know that that's, that's fun to know. I'm kind of a blues, old music, uh, aficionados. So Josephine baker is one of my favorites, so yeah,
Speaker 4 00:43:09 She's fantastic. Yeah, she has, uh, she has a history. She was, uh, she wasn't, uh, she wasn't all who she pretended to be and she used it well
Speaker 1 00:43:19 Now, um, challis and S uh, Sophie and Estelle become friends fairly quickly. I mean, not instantly, but fairly quickly. And it made me think, um, not just about them, but the in wars, it seems like, um, people have to, um, have to develop relationships pretty quickly. I mean, all the women that married their, uh, men right before they went off to war and, and so on. And I'm wondering, um, if you use that in your story of Sophia and Estelle, or if it just sort of happened that way, I mean, did they become friends quickly in part because of the war itself?
Speaker 4 00:44:08 Absolutely. I was thinking that is, you kind of hit the nail on the head there. Um, people did what they had to do with who they had to do it with and they didn't, they just made it work. Uh, and for Sophia and Estelle, um, in terms of who they were, um, Sophie being very learned, um, had aspirations, you know, into academia, um, was determined to do absolutely nothing that everybody expected to suffer. Uh, and then it's still, on the other hand who was, uh, supposedly the, the socialites who, you know, was there to be pretty and entertaining and be a decoration. Um, so, and she kind of, both of them chased under the expectations. So two very different women from different worlds. Um, but similar in that they were put into a box of expectations that they wanted nothing to do with. Um, so when I think that that's when they, when they got together, uh, and developed that relationship on the surface, they're very different people, but underneath that, they're very similar <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:45:21 Yes, they have, uh, yes, similar emotions and, and, um, um, Sophie's the ice princess of the stele is where the, the, uh, singer and cabaret kind of person, but they really do have a meeting of the minds, especially when they understand who each other
Speaker 4 00:45:41 Is probably never would have occurred. If the war hadn't gotten in the way right there, their lives, probably our paths never would have crossed. They were moving in different circles. So, uh, the war is what brought them together.
Speaker 1 00:45:56 Now, what effect would you say the theft of the art had on people of the time and what kind of effect it has now, as we re find them and try to find are the, uh, odors, the rightful owners of the art.
Speaker 4 00:46:17 So I used art, uh, in this book, number one, because I love art. I love art history. Um, but I also used art for what it represented, uh, during this conflict and my characters talk about it too, and it's not, and of course you can't ever equate a human life with, with a canvas or, you know, or a painting. Um, but it's what that art represents and that art represents entire families. It represents the history of those families. It represents the history of communities and of entire countries and when that is stolen. Um, and they talk about, about that in the book. It's like, what does that staff represented? It's, it's feeling, it's feeling history from people, from countries, from families, um, stealing identities from, from those, from those people. And, uh, one of the saddest things. Um, it, you know, if you, if you peruse through the monuments men or foundation, or, um, dig a little bit deeper into that, is that, um, lots of the auction houses now have, have, uh, employees whose sole job is to dis to decide if a piece that's brought to auction, if it is, if there's any possible way that it could have been looted during, during the occupation of any of those countries, uh, that the Nazis occupied and, uh, in lots of cases, when they identify a piece that was stolen, there is no one to return it to, even if they can identify it.
Speaker 4 00:47:44 And even if they can identify who the rightful owners are, there is no family left to return it to. And that, that really struck me that, that absolute loss of loss of humanity,
Speaker 1 00:48:01 You kind of, that kind of comes up, uh, in relation to, uh, is it, uh, Rachel is the name of the Viva's aunt? Is that right? Yes. Okay. Got it. Right. I can't read my own handwriting, actually. That's part of what the problem is here. Um, anyway, talk some about, uh, Veeva and, uh, also, uh, I don't think I'm spoiling too much cause this comes at the beginning of the book, but, um, how her, uh, how she reacted to losing her parents and one of the, or her aunt to, and, uh, in one of the, um, actions where they came in and, uh, took people out of their homes. And, uh, somehow the paintings got saved, I guess they got stuff. Um, but anyway, uh, talk about it Viva. She's a very wonderful and character difficult.
Speaker 4 00:48:59 So, uh, in the story of Eva, um, who is a young Jewish girl, um, she, she represents quite a few, uh, uh, people who, uh, who went into hiding or, uh, escapes, um, the deportations and the executions, uh, and, uh, there were so many people, uh, throughout, uh, throughout France and other countries as well, uh, who worked hard to, um, to help those people, uh, escape. And, uh, so for Viva, um, she, she loses her family and it's still steps in, um, to help. And I'm trying not to give too many smiling. And there comes a time where Estelle knows that she has to do more. She has to do more for Viva that what she is doing isn't enough. And that comes at a very high kind of emotional price for Estelle, uh, because she feels in some ways she knows what she has to do, but she feels she's failing. And the promises that she made to a Vivas to a Viva's family. Uh, but in the end, um, yeah, the legacy that gets left behind, uh, through a Veeva, uh, is what Leah, uh, gets to discover. Yes.
Speaker 1 00:50:21 Yes. Well, we are running out of time, um, where we've been speaking with Kelly Bowen and author of the Paris apartment. Wonderful, wonderful book up very, very, very briefly. What's next?
Speaker 4 00:50:36 Uh, what's next? I have another historical fiction that I am currently writing, uh, and it will take place, uh, in the Netherlands and in France also set in world war II. And, uh, it's going to center a little bit around the Dutch resistance as well as the Jedburgh teams sent ahead of operation overlord and operation market garden. Great.
Speaker 1 00:50:56 That sounds exciting too. Uh, thank you very much for coming on right on radio and talking about your, uh, book, the Paris apartments, wonderful book. I can highly recommend it and oh, thank
Speaker 4 00:51:08 You so much. And thank you so much for having me. It was absolute pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 00:51:12 Great. Well, I'll let you go now. Thank you very much. Thanks again.
Speaker 1 00:51:25 You are listening to right on radio on cafe AI, 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Liz old, and I'd like to thank our guests tonight, Kelly Bond, and Shannah Compton plus our listeners without you and your support and donations cafe, I would not be possible. You can find more news and info about right on radio at kfh.org/programs/right on radio. Plus listen to recent episodes on our recently launched podcast. Sorry, I can't see racially last podcast found on Spotify, iTunes and anywhere podcasts can be found now station for ballroom Minnesota.
