Speaker 0 00:00:10 <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:02:03 You are listening to right on radio on cafe 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Josh Webber tonight on, right on radio Dave FEDEC, we'll be talking with Ron and Aaron author of the book of lost light, a novel that explores family loyalty, betrayal finished folklore, the nature of time, and what takes to rise from tragedy near and has published many short stories, including a number that were there were shortlisted for Oh Henry awards and pushcart prizes. He writes and teaches writing in the San Francisco Bay area. In the last part of the hour, we'll be featuring an interview from the past with our special surprise, a legacy interview, all this and more. So stay tuned to bite on radio.
Speaker 0 00:02:47 <inaudible> <inaudible>. Mr. Better? Can you hear me? I can hear you. I can hear you. Okay. Coming from the show, Ron,
Speaker 2 00:03:42 Welcome to right on radio on KF AI.
Speaker 3 00:03:47 So glad to be here. Thank you so much for having me
Speaker 2 00:03:50 Wonderful. The sun is still shining. So you are out West.
Speaker 3 00:03:53 I am, although this is this background do CDB behind me on zoom is, is a photograph of earlier in the day, so, okay. Although time time's switching for you.
Speaker 2 00:04:03 Well done, you fooled me, uh, welcome to the show, Ron and Ron, your last name pronunciation, please. Myron. Myron. Okay. Thank you. Uh, congratulations on the book. It's the book of lost light a novel. Um, I wonder if we could begin Ron before we have a little reading from me to give us a sense for, um, the story, um, and your style. I greatly enjoyed it. Um, tell, give us a description. If you could run up the sweep of the novel, it's a historical novel, uh, uh, give us a sense for what's happening before you, before you give us a reading. Okay.
Speaker 3 00:04:39 Yeah. The book of lost light is the story of Joseph Kyle. A boy grows up in the early 20th century. San Francisco raised by his obsessive photographer. Father was trying to capture the passage of time and understand the mystery of time. I just also raised by his impulsive older cousin Karelia, who was a photographer in her own, right. Um, but very different in philosophy from her father, from his father. And, uh, it Chronicles their lives before, during and after the 1906 earthquake, uh, after which they take refuge with a capricious patron and a group of Saudi artists, uh, in the backyard in Berkeley,
Speaker 2 00:05:24 That's a great description and it's just a great introduction for our listeners to, uh, all that goes on in this, in this story, uh, the characters are lively. Uh, the story keeps moving it. I just had a blast reading it. And in these times it was great to escape from, uh, 2020 and uh, head back, uh, in, in, in to a previous time. So, uh, so Ron, uh, let's begin with a reading. What do you have in mind for us?
Speaker 3 00:05:49 Sure. Thank you. Uh, this passages from early on in the book, it's 1905. Joseph is in his and his older cousin. Qualia is working as the receptionist for others, photographic studio, where this takes place. And this is the moment they first meet Thomas Hall garden, who will later become an important patron of Arthur's work. It was seven minutes after five. When someone knocked, I always knew precisely what time it was without needing to consult a clock, a skill I had learned to conceal from my schoolmates since none of them seem to possess, it could really get called out for closed for the day, but they're not getting continued until I answered it. The man on the other side of the door stood well over six feet tall, he was perhaps in his early forties with a large oval head topped by fine fair hair. And to start stout frame fit snugly in a suit of gray cloth, which gave off the sweet odor of pipe tobacco.
Speaker 3 00:06:50 He said his name was Thomas Hall garden. Did you come to pick up Prince by acid? No. He said gazing at the studio with eyes crinkled and curious his hat dangled down from his fingertips, a style I'd never seen before. Soft felt with a narrow brim that angled down to the front and turned up at the back. Did you come to schedule a city? I said we're usually booked in a week in advance, but there may be a cancellation. In fact, an alarming swath of my father's schedule was free. These days he'll check the calendar for you. I didn't come for a portrait. He said, Karelia came up behind me. She said, you don't look like a creditor. The van left. Well, that's one thing I can be grateful for them. Tell me, what do I look like? She studied the mother of Pearl cufflinks that his wrists, the gleaming black shoes, he wore four rings, one ornate and scrolled and sat with tiny gems.
Speaker 3 00:07:49 The second bearing at Amber colored stone, the third thick and dark with the image of a dolphin stamped in the metal. The fourth was a simple gold band, gypsy violinist. She said he grew solemn. You have to put your finger on it. He said, I have the soul of a gypsy violinist. And yet I occupied the body of a businessman. How sad for you? She said better that than the soul of a businessman in the body of a gypsy violinist. I'm here to see I as their calendar. He wrote me about a project of his
Speaker 2 00:08:26 Thank you. That was Ron Niven reading from his new novel, the book of lost light. I love that passage. Um, it's got a lot of the main themes I would love to discuss, and if we have all the time in the world and we don't speak in a time, and one of those themes is time. The others are photography, family relationships. And so on. Let's begin with photography wrong. Um, where did you come up with this idea and tell us about the degree to which you are true to history of photography when you are describing the early days. It's fascinating. I think readers will just really enjoy this discussion. I know Edward Muybridge, uh, and his dream, his horse photos. Uh, but, but, but talk to us about the inspiration for this novel and, uh, why photography plays the predominant role. It does.
Speaker 3 00:09:13 Yeah. Well, I was working on a short story many years ago, set in contemporary times, there was a photographer who was a minor character and he was photographing a boy regularly and the story didn't work, but I, I kept thinking something about that was compelling and I, I didn't know why or what it meant, why it mattered. And then I remember, uh, in photography of veteran Muybridge, this pioneering man who captured in the 1870s, the first images, of course in motion. And he went out to photograph many animals, um, uh, in ways that people had never seen them moving, uh, caught in the midst of starting before. And I was kind of fascinated by that. And I wondered, well, what if you extended the period? And instead of photographing an animal every few seconds, uh, what might be revealed if you photographed a person once a day, every day of their life, over a longer period of time, what might be revealed about the secrets of time?
Speaker 3 00:10:13 And so I imagined this man, a photograph from his son every day of his life. So that sent me back to reading about Edward Muybridge his life. And he's a fascinating character in its own, right? Yeah. But I also wondered, okay, here's this very scientific documentary approach to photography. What else is going on at the time, uh, in photography. And I started reading about the California pictorial lists who had a totally different approach. Uh, they were arguing that, um, photography was a fine arts and it wasn't just a mechanical process. They were manipulating images, uh, using any technique under the sun, uh, painting on them, etching them, uh, dodging and burning. They were really trying to convey their own artistic visions, uh, using the medium of photography. And so I thought, well, this is kind of a character who's sort of the antithesis of Arthur, uh, a woman who is a pictorial photographer. And, uh, and then the lightning, the lightning really struck when I thought, Oh, she's, she's been a member of the family. Uh, she's going to be a cousin who comes down.
Speaker 2 00:11:22 Well, she's a fascinating character. I just loved her. Uh, readers will love her and want to know more and more about her, but there's an, uh, speaking of the discussion you just raised about, uh, photography and whether, and to what degree it's art, there's a nice scene. As you know, you wrote it, uh, in the camp, in the, um, post earthquake camp where these Bohemian artists come to reside, uh, about the nature of photography and whether it is actually art. Um, so, uh, uh, I was going to ask you to ask him directly your view of that. So why don't I do that? What are you, where do you, where do you land on that question?
Speaker 3 00:11:58 Oh, completely. Yeah. I, I mean, this, this was, this was way back in the early days when they worked in the dark room of is just tremendous. Um, they would spend hours in the day making these amazing photographs, um, that today we could do much more easily with Photoshop or film or simple filters. Um, but just the painstaking labor that went into crafting these, these fabulous photographs, uh, there was a photographer, um, based in Oakland around that time period and bringing them who would go out and take your camera on long hikes in the CRS, photograph her friends and families and the occasional stranger, um, often in the nude, in nature, um, almost integrated into trees and rocks and crags and, and then come back to the studio and work and rework them, uh, and create these mystical, but, but compelling landscapes that are, that book will feel like a painting and they feel like reality. And I thought that was just, she was a great inspiration for the character of trailers.
Speaker 2 00:12:58 Yeah. Yeah. I could see that. And from your description, by the way, I should note to our listeners that this is a novel, because a lot of discussion about photography and pictures, and there are no pictures in it. It's a novel, but I can tell you, you will have, um, stark images in your mind on those photographs. And I have distinct images in my mind that are still with me. So they're, well-described Rhonda kudos to you. Um, it, it's kind of a love letter to photography. If you asked me, um, you know, you mentioned the Highlanders, uh, attempt to capture time with his pictures every day. They weren't just photographs from our old brownie. Um, it was, um, a thing he constructed a terrorist, but what in the world is a terrorist skull. And why is it important in this story?
Speaker 3 00:13:40 Yes, well, Arthur is trying to capture, uh, after his wife dies in childbirth giving birth to Joseph, um, he is completely flattened by this stuff. Um, but comes up with this idea of photographing the assignment once every day, basically from infancy onward. And he begins just by having Karelia hold Joseph up to the camera, uh, once every day. And for agree, I think that division was dissatisfied by the, uh, incompleteness of just photographing the front. Uh, so he, a few years in, he invented this device. He calls the Tetra scope, uh, which can photograph the subject from four sides simultaneously. So it's four cameras, uh, arranged at each point of the campus and all connected by tubes and mirrors so that the, uh, image from each camera lens ends up, uh, each one ends up in a row, um, on the negative, uh, so filming. So for the record of the front back and both sides at the same time. So he gets instantaneous photo of almost the whole body, um, to compare, uh, over the years.
Speaker 2 00:15:00 Yeah, it's fascinating. Um, and he's quite obsessed with it and it makes me wonder if, uh, Arthur is a, a mad genius or just the just mad. Uh, and I'm sure we're left to wonderful about that for ourselves. Um, he's quite the character. Um, and, and well, we could talk a lot about him, but we're not going to get a chance to talk about, let's talk about Karelian. Where did she come from? Uh, you mentioned, uh, connection to, uh, the existing photographer. Was she inspired her away from that? I mean, she just sort of appears beautifully and, uh, kind of takes over the story and helps move things along. Um, where did you come from in your, in your imagination?
Speaker 3 00:15:39 Yeah, well, I certainly am brakemen was a, a vital and eccentric and wonderful person from what I read about her life. Uh, she was just bold, uh, her, her own independent woman. Uh, she would go running every morning, uh, on every Sunday morning on the beach in barefoot on these pebbly beaches. Um, she would go hiking on her own, uh, you know, and it was tied at a time when women were less likely to do that sort of thing. Yeah. So she just had a fierceness that inspired Karelia, and, but also there were other women's photographers at the time who were doing similar kinds of very creative things. Um, Berkeley photographers, Adelaide heads can recently who, uh, created a illustrated edition of the, uh <inaudible> and, uh, had other other photographers who had, it would just, you know, to, to make art at that time to sort of dedicate your life to art as a woman. Um, especially those who were married, uh, took a certain degree of fierceness and inventiveness to pull off. And I, I just felt a lot about where the photographers of the time and the ways they, they forged new paths, I thought.
Speaker 2 00:16:53 Yeah. Well, thank you for that. Um, and speaking of characters, there's a book that's really plays a strong role. Uh, and that's the Kali Vala. I hope I'm saying that right. Uh, collection of Finnish mythic creation stories, I guess, or creation myths, um, fascinating to learn about. I didn't know anything about this and, uh, there are some pretty, um, Oh, I was going to say something in polite, like whacked out con uh, creation myths out there in the world. Uh, but there are so amazing stories in this book and they show up and in your novel, um, where did that come from? And, uh, I can see some parallels I've tried to, and I have to read the book again to do this in a detailed sort of way, but parallels between some of these creation myths that we got from the Kelly Vala and what's going on in the story. Um, but, but tell us about that.
Speaker 3 00:17:46 Yeah, well, I fought that, uh, I always want, I was very started as a book. I started to think what, uh, where did Joseph's family come from? Um, and my own family background is, is, uh, Swedish American, mostly. Um, my great grandparents on, uh, three, three sets of my great grandparents immigrated from Sweden. So I could have gone that route, uh, but I have this perverse desire to make this novel, not autobiographical as much as possible. So, um, I, instead I said, well, maybe they're finish. Uh, I was grew up in hammered by the short stories of, and the novels of Tovah Jansen that finished author, a movement of the mutual books, most famous statement, many other amazing books for adults as well. Uh, but she was, uh, you know, too contemporary to be available, to put in the book. So the only other thing I knew about Finland was, um, the color volume, uh, at which I knew very little outline, read about it, no encyclopedia of all miss, uh, as a child.
Speaker 3 00:18:52 And, uh, so I went back to it actually read the whole thing, and it's this fascinating, bizarre, um, Epic poem that, that outside of Finland does not as known as well as it should be. Um, yeah. And, uh, it creates has the story of, of this ancient wizard, uh, find a mine who, uh, has various adventures, uh, uh, battling the queen of the North, um, and being unlucky in love. And, uh, it's, it's this concatenation of, uh, moral folktales put together by LIS long road. So I was just, once I started to read this book, I was just like, Oh, this, this is more people have to know about this. Um, and, and it just captivated my imagination. And I thought, well, maybe the characters, you know, theater Joseph is going to grow up to be a sort of a theatrical person. I figured given his, um, his tendency to be in front of the camera every day. So, um, I thought, well, maybe after the earthquake, uh, people at the time were putting on their own amateur theatricals, so maybe they would be performing stories from the collarbone. And, uh, and I didn't really anticipate that there would be parallels between the Colorado stories and my own bucket. I was never part of my agenda, but after I finished it, I looked back and I thought, well, actually, there are certain parallels that I, that just sort of fell out, fell into place.
Speaker 2 00:20:20 Yeah, that's beautiful. And that happens if you force it, it doesn't always work. Right. Um, it, uh, you know, going back to the exit that you read and, and you also reference Greek myths, uh, in the book. Um, and I was thinking about this afterwards, um, you know, uh, Karelia being could be representative of, to a certain degree. Some of these <inaudible> characters that show up in these various stories and, you know, Mr. Hall garden be a sort of a, I dunno, descending sort of God-like character that comes in and, um, messes things up, uh, if you will, or, uh, uh, causes things to happen. And, and, uh, at any rate, uh, that's my clumsy way of saying nice job of, um, uh, giving us these different layers of stories. Um, I thought it was beautifully done. Thank you. Yeah. Um, let's, let's talk about the earthquake.
Speaker 2 00:21:17 Uh, you know, it, even though we all know about the earthquake, I wasn't ready for it when it happened. I was just as shocked and surprised and disrupted as the characters were. So it was sort of a nice effect. Spoiler alert, there's an earthquake everywhere. Uh, I mean, in San Francisco, um, uh, I really enjoyed that. It helped me feel like I learned more about the earthquake, but, um, this idea that these particular characters would end up in a makeshift camp in the hall gardens property, uh, and then start putting on plays. I thought it was kind of a magical sort of a Midsummer night's dream sort of thing happening. Um, is there any basis in reality for those kinds of things happening or is this just oughta run iron's head?
Speaker 3 00:22:01 I wish it, I wish I had come up with it, but actually it is inspired by, um, I rent in researching art at the time. Um, I came across, uh, like a paragraph about, uh, a group of artists who, uh, camped out in the backyard of, uh, the novelist Herman Whitaker in Oakland. Um, and, uh, and, uh, there was, there was, I kept looking for more about that and I did eventually find an oral history of Herman Whitaker's daughter, uh, and an essay also, um, which he gave a little bit more information. Uh, sh uh, she ended up, she was sent 17 at the time. And, um, she and her brothers would collect firewood for the artists for the bonfire that they had out in the backyard. And eventually she, a year later, she married one of the artists who was, uh, quite a number of years, her senior, um, and they, they were a fascinating pair. Uh, see if your Martino's total, this painter, whose, whose paintings were somewhat reminiscent of the photography of the pictorial lists, uh, sort of very atmospheric and viewed with feeling. So, uh, so inspired by that. And I wanted to know more about what happened around that bonfire. Um, and since I couldn't find more, I, I made up made it up.
Speaker 2 00:23:20 Yeah, well, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's fascinating. Um, and the whole gardens are, uh, interesting family. Uh, tell us a little more about them and, uh, how they, um, complicate things and, uh, Thomas scene, am I pronouncing her name correctly? Yes, I'm seeing, I'm just fascinated by her also, but please I'll turn it over to you.
Speaker 3 00:23:41 Yes. Well, Thomas becomes, the patron of Arthur has been searching for a patron in much the same way that Muybridge has helped immensely when, um, uh, governor Stanford became his patron and funded the photography of so many animals. So once I had a patron, uh, I started to think of sort of the dangers of relying on a patron, a wealthy man and an artist, what could go wrong, uh, and just as things went wrong with the Stanford Muybridge, um, I, I thought things could get hairy with, uh, with Mr. Hall garden. So without giving too much away, and I'll say the families could become somewhat embroiled and Joseph does, uh, develop a pretty big crush on Mr. Holly garden's daughter, um, which has ramifications later on in the book. Um, but I also just love, uh, portraying a Berkeley family at the time because, uh, Berkeley was full of a very Bohemian attitude, um, integrating life with nature and, uh, following certain, um, nature-based philosophies that I just found fascinating and wanted to put in the book.
Speaker 2 00:24:51 Yeah. Yeah. Uh, Thomas Sian reminds me of Mark, uh, among many passages. I marked, when she's told that she shouldn't tell anyone about the Tetra scope and the project. Um, she said, Oh, I see she said, dryly, you're afraid someone will see this and photograph their own child for 14 years. It's a great comment. And it's kind of, it's kind of an idea of the back of the reader's mind. Like, why is this guy so obsessed with this project and really what is he trying to do? Um, it, uh, anyway, uh, I thought these big, these characters really come alive, uh, and, uh, I was eager to always get, sit down every day and, and read and catch up with what they're doing. I were speaking with Ron Niara and we're getting dangerously close to the end of our half hour. I can't believe it, Ron.
Speaker 2 00:25:38 Um, I want to ask you about what you're up to next, but before I do that, the choice you made to have the story told by Joseph, uh, the son that from that point of view, um, it's a big decision for, uh, an author to make telling a story like this. Um, why did you choose that? And that can be limiting in your ability to tell a story, because Joseph has to either know about what's going on or show up and all that sort of thing. Um, so, uh, as a writing instructor, uh, tell us, tell the class why you chose this.
Speaker 3 00:26:08 Yes, I, that's a great question. I started writing this book, um, not knowing whose point of view it would be. And I tried three different approaches, um, tourism, third person, and one of them, Joseph and Joseph started telling you about events that happened long before he was born. And I thought, well, that's weird, but there was a certain vitality to that voice, um, that I, I gave the three openings, the three sort of very different openings to my spouse and writing partner, Sarah Stone, and, uh, without telling her my favorite and, uh, she, so this first person, wow, that's great. Go with that. And so that's how that's mashed my own feeling. And it did cause some headaches, uh, because when you're ready to do a first person, especially with a large cast, um, you have to figure out how does this person know what happened before they were born? Uh, how much, how do you indicate to the reader when they're imagining it, uh, based on what little they know and how do they learn things that's happened outside their purview? Um, so it was, it took some time to figure these things out. And many times you can leave a mystery. And as long as it's clear that it's a mystery to the narrator and they wish they do to where they can speculate about what might've gone on in the reader feels like, okay, I have some plausible theories to go with.
Speaker 2 00:27:25 That's a really great point. So we're, we're with him, uh, trying to figure things out. Uh, yeah, that's right. That's right. And it does happen. And I was consciously thinking about this because, you know, that's the task of what we try to do here. Um, but it works such that, um, uh, it's not, uh, it doesn't get in the way of the story at all. Um, it's great. Hear, yeah, we really grow to like the guy, um, he's, uh, it feels like a trustworthy narrator, I think.
Speaker 3 00:27:54 Yes, he is. I love the unreliable narrator technique. Um, but, uh, ultimately in this case, it seemed to be a reliable narrator was the way to go.
Speaker 2 00:28:04 Yeah. So let, let us, let's talk about what you're up to next and by the way, congrats on the short stories also, um, uh, Eva, Eva, to find writing crew to this point, are we going to hear more from these guys or you had another novel in the works?
Speaker 3 00:28:16 Yes. I have short stories. Some of them historical and contemporary in the works. And I also have a novel inspired in part by one of the Greekness that Joseph and his fellow artists perform in this, in this book. Um, uh, but this, this next novel, as I'm envisioning, it will be a retelling of that myth, um, in ancient Greek times.
Speaker 2 00:28:44 Oh, so you're going, you're going into the way back machine this way back, real historic novel. So, uh, uh, in, in for, you know, for writing historic novels, uh, tell us about how much time you spend time is up. Well, be we're not going to do that. And I just got the heads up. So Ron, I'm going to wrap things up with that. Uh, it's been great chatting with you. It went so fast. The novel is the book of lost light ladies and gentlemen. It's a great read. You'll get lost in that world. And that's what you need to do in these days. Believe me, his name is Ron Niara N Y R E N. Look him up. Ron has been a great pleasure.
Speaker 3 00:29:21 Thank you so much, Dave. Yeah. Happy new year. Happy new year to you and talk to you. Thank you much. And now this
Speaker 0 00:29:34 <inaudible>
Speaker 4 00:29:44 Grumbling and spike among others. He didn't mind these much, not even Groundling the name he truly disliked was the first he ever remembered being called number 13. It wasn't a name really just a number written in red on a piece of paper, filed in a drawer, in a room full of hundreds of files and drawers. It was in Boston, a small tin medallion attached to a piece of cord. He wore around his neck at a home for unclaimed creatures. It was sewn inside his tattered gray shirt and shabby gray trousers. And it was painted on his hard narrow bed in a room full of the beds of other unclaimed creatures who had at least been fortunate enough to have been given the gift of birth. He looked like a young Fox, but stood up, right, like a child and had no tail to speak of his eyes were lovely Chestnut Brown and flecked with gold, but there was something about them that gave one the sense that although he had not been in this world very long, he carried within him some inexplicably, sorrow. He was a creature with an innocent heart. What kind of creature though, who could say, despite his Fox KIPP faith, his snout was more dogs than Fox and there was something raggedy about him too, and the way his nose twitched when he sense danger and how he trembled when he heard the loud clang of the orphanage bell. But the most singular thing about him was the hat was that he had only one ear.
Speaker 5 00:31:09 Very good. You've been listening to Mira Bartek reading from her new children's novel. The wonderful thing. She is the author of numerous books, including the memory palace, a memoir, which won the 2011 national book critics circle award for autobiography and the Wunderlist I understand is going to be made into a film. So that's great to, uh, Mira Bartek. Welcome to right on radio.
Speaker 4 00:31:35 Thank you. It's great to be here.
Speaker 5 00:31:38 Tell us a little bit about the story. I mean, it's sort of in many ways, a, a fantasy homage to a, um, Oliver twist, I guess.
Speaker 4 00:31:48 Well, it's a kind of a mashup of several things. Definitely. I was influenced by Dickens and the world he created, um, uh, particularly, um, Oliver twist, but there are other, uh, other influences in there too, but they're also, um, you know, I'm, you know, I was definitely influenced by the classic, um, classic children's stories and young adult stories, like, um, Lord of the rings and, um, you know, and obviously the Narnia books and by CS Lewis and, and, um, so, so I wanted to have this to have a classic feel, but, um, and it also, it's, it's a, it's a world that feels kind of Victorian England, um, during the industrial revolution, which is a time in England, um, that as well as, you know, United States and other places that, that seems to resonate with a lot of the things we're going, that are going on now in our, in our world. Um, but it definitely is a fantasy.
Speaker 5 00:32:53 So we, we start off with him, uh, with Arthur, who, who you talk about as number 13 and, and who later gets the name Arthur, um, in this orphanage,
Speaker 4 00:33:05 Right? He's, he's in this horrible place that is called Ms. Carbuncles home for wayward in to see gotten creatures. Um, and it's run by, um, our villainous named miss carbuncle, who, um, has, who has a very mysterious history of her own. And you find out a lot more about her, um, throughout the book. And she will definitely be in book two, which I'm in the middle of writing right now. Um, she has a two and a half foot high, um, bright orange wig, um, which she is concealing something underneath, which I won't tell you about I'm you have to read the book, but, um, yeah, she's very, she, she is, um, sort of an example of someone who had a lot of disappointment in, in early life and, and that transformed into, um, bullying and, um, general bad behavior, very much a kind of dictator sort of character. Um, but he, he does escape. That's not a spoiler, it's on the cover of the book, so everyone knows Arthur. Um, Arthur is escapes and number 13 escapes and, um, sets off to find his destiny and, um, and goes through, goes on a lot of adventures.
Speaker 5 00:34:24 So in many ways that's like it's a coming of age story, isn't it?
Speaker 4 00:34:28 Oh, definitely. Yeah. I, I, I mean, he's 11, he turns 11, um, in the beginning of the book and I love that age because, um, and I like writing for that age a lot. Um, I think, you know, you're not concerned about hormones and romance really. You're really concerned about, you know, who the main characters, uh, you know, who am I in the world and, and, um, you know, and everything is so wondrous and, you know, they, they, um, you know, and, and who are my friends and, and, and, um, why am I here? And, you know, he, you know, he asks all these questions and those are the kinds of close kind of questions. You know, I remember asking myself when I was 11. Um,
Speaker 5 00:35:13 Where, where did the inspiration for him come from? Um, was it, uh, was there any one, uh, person that, you know, you know, a nephew or something, or was it just sort of a conglomeration or was it just sort of an idealized 11 year old in your mind?
Speaker 4 00:35:27 Um, a combination, I think, I think the character, in some ways it was a lot, like I was when I was 11, I was pretty shy and, um, and, uh, and had certain gifts, but I was afraid to share them. Um, so it's a little, there's a little bit of me in there, but also, um, uh, I often start writing about a character, um, through drawing, just random drawing and sketching, whatever comes to my mind, um, or, or being out in the world and sketching, particularly sketching animals. And so I, I, you know, the, the, um, my character started out as a sketch. Um, and I wasn't even thinking about who this character was. I just started sketching and I made a, made a drawing of actually a one-year old rabbit, which turned into, um, a Fox dog, like creatures. It looks somewhat like my own dog, Sadie, who was she's black, but she's, she, she, um, has these giant ears.
Speaker 4 00:36:31 And, um, and, uh, so yeah. Um, and I also wanted, I knew that I wanted a character that had like a great, a lot of folktales. There's a lack and a gain. And, and in this case, it seems like, um, my character, uh, would have, he only has one ear. He doesn't know why he's born. He was born that way. Did he lose it in some way? Um, and, um, you know, so he has this lack. Um, but, but yet he has this incredible gift that you find out about, um, that he uses his ear for. And, um, yeah.
Speaker 5 00:37:06 Yeah. I don't think it's giving too much away to talk about that, but I mean, if you don't want to, we certainly don't have to, but, but it is sort of often the case that when we lose something, a sense of smell, a sense of taste, sense of hearing or whatever we, we gain, we don't necessarily gain on the other side, but we become much more attuned to those other senses and we're able to use them better. And so, so there's just sort of this, uh, compensatory process, uh, that, that nature seems to endow us with.
Speaker 4 00:37:37 Yeah. I definitely see that with my dog who she blew things, she's getting old and she's losing her sense of hearing and, um, and sight. So she's paying a lot more attention to the world with her nose, even though of course the dogs do that. Yeah. She she's sniffed a lot more. She sniffed around to find things much more than she used to do. So, um,
Speaker 5 00:38:01 Mostly populate the story with these hybrid creatures. I mean, you talk a little bit about, uh, 13 Arthur who, um, who is sort of a part Fox part person, and most of the characters, there's a few that are not, of course, but I am, there are many within the story, but a few of the ones that you sort of focus on, uh, are not, but, but by and large, they're all these hybrids. Talk a little bit about the decision to do that.
Speaker 4 00:38:27 Um, I knew that I wanted to have animals, um, in my, in this book. Um, and one of the really basic reasons was I enjoy drawing, drawing them so much more than I enjoy drawing people. Um, and I I'm just better at it. Um, and, um, and I also love animals and I used to work at a zoo. I spend a lot of time, um, um, as much as time, time as I can, you know, around animals, I visit a horse every day that lives down the road. I have a dog I used to, um, live on a farm with more animals. And so, um, so that was part of it. Um, but also, um, I wanted there to be a kind of hierarchy and, and in my world, and I knew that I'm not, I, I'm not sure why I wanted to have an animal human hybrid.
Speaker 4 00:39:25 I think, um, it just sort of popped into my mind and that's what happened. Um, and I, I knew that I wanted there to be animals and then these animal human hybrids that are called Groundlings and there, and, um, and then the humans, but also there are, um, other creatures that are creatures of ancient magic that appear. And those, we learn a little bit more about them in book two, um, and they, some of them transform into other things. And, um, so there, so there's definitely this, this hierarchy and the, and the humans really dominate, um, these Groundlings and treat them poorly. Um, so, um, so I think that it's, it's just part of this class system I created, um, they not supposed to be, you know, specifically supposed to represent any group of people that exist, um, you know, in our world, other than just think of anyone who is, is treated poorly in our, in our society and they can be a ground link.
Speaker 5 00:40:34 Right, right. And you also did, um, all the, all the illustrations yourself as well. You talk about, uh, Lovington neuron and so forth. This book kind of reminded me a little bit of the, uh, the monster blood tattoo series and, uh, in particularly Lamplighter by DM Cornish. Um,
Speaker 4 00:40:53 Oh, I don't know those. Wait a minute. I have to write those, the monster blood
Speaker 5 00:40:58 Tattoo series. Yeah. He's he's uh, well, one of the books, I w the only one that I got to interview him for, for the show was called Lamplighter, which was book two in the series. Um, and it's essentially a very similar story in some ways, this young orphan, and he does all his own illustrations. He's an author illustrator. He's a, I think he's Australian. And, uh, it was a number of years ago. We had him on the show. Um, but he had, uh, I think he had S it's been so many years. I can't recall maybe a hundred of illustrations that he had put forth. And then he ended up call from them for the book, you know, and, uh, didn't use all that many within the text itself. But, uh, that was just interesting to talk to somebody who was able to do illustrations as well as writing cause in children's literature, that's pretty rare. Uh, was that something that you did? Was that something that you knew right off the bat, you're going to be able to do this, or did you, did you have to talk to your publisher and say, I want to be allowed to do this, or,
Speaker 4 00:42:05 Um, normally with children's books, uh, and, and this is, this is true with, um, you know, when people are, they're writing their first picture book, say picture books for, you know, a younger children. Um, the rule is don't illustrate your own broke book. Um, you know, a newbie writer always feels like they have to turn in illustrations to, to get accepted. And that's like the worst thing to do because usually one of those things you do better. Yeah. Um, but in this and this, that is true. That middle grade, middle grade authors rarely, rarely illustrate their own work. That's where I didn't realize that was so unusual, but it is, um, in this case, when my agent submitted my manuscript, which was only about a quarter of the way done, um, I had, I had done some finished illustrations. Um, and, and she submitted those as well.
Speaker 4 00:43:09 And, um, and just because she felt that they were as strong and they were integral to the, the, um, book. And when my publisher, um, when I published her, saw them, um, I mean she and the art director really loved them. And, and that was definitely part of the, that was part of the book deal. They automatically wanted me to illustrate the book too. Um, and the, the movie was actually sold partially because of these images. Um, the movie agents who initially saw my happened to see my, my manuscript, which was a total fluke. It was just one of those weird moments where you're, someone's in the right place at the right time. My age, my age is crazy. I mean, this stuff doesn't happen. It's weird. My agent, my agent was in a meeting at, um, in LA, um, for another project for another, um, another client.
Speaker 4 00:44:08 And she happened to have met her. My manuscript opened up on her laptop at this meeting at, um, at CAA, which is creative artist agency, the big book, big movie agency. And she had my, um, there was my, one of my illustrations of Arthur right there. And the movie agents happened to pass by and said, what's that? And it was based that drawing. Um, so yeah, to answer your question about why it is very unusual, um, but they, and I didn't re I didn't, I didn't know if they were going to let me illustrate it or not. Um, and, um, but that was just a given that was immediately, it was immediately a green light. Um, I also had like this also, you're talking about, I also had a lot more of illustrations, um, that didn't get into the book because they're just, it's a big book it's really kind of fat and, um, turned out to be longer than I anticipated. So, um, and we ended up ditching some of those big illustrations and just, I ended up making a bunch of little spot illustrations to fit in spaces.
Speaker 5 00:45:19 Yeah. Well, th that's sort of more common with this age of reader. Anyway. I think, uh, you don't see as many of the bigger illustrations, so, well, let's listen, if we can, to another passage from the book.
Speaker 4 00:45:32 Okay. Then let's see here. You find a page. Um, I think I'll read, um, I'll read a little, uh, this is a little section when, um, it will you learn about his special gifts and, um, he is, um, number 13, who will become Arthur is in the dining hall at the home, um, this horrible orphanage and, and, um, he's sitting down and he's very, very shy. And, um, and, um, anyway, he's just sort of sitting there eating his, his cult porridge, the one eared orphan launch for companionship. But whenever he gathered the courage to approach someone, he spoke so softly and stuttered so much that it was hard to understand him. Some of the Groundlings not to mention the headmistress and Mr. Sneeze weighed her assistant treated him as though he were deaf. How could that stammering creature called number 13? Possibly here was just one pathetic ear, but he was listening.
Speaker 4 00:46:41 He was listening to everything around him. If he concentrated hard enough and went to a quiet secret place inside himself, he could sometimes hear extraordinary things. He could hear the secret movements of insects, busy at their work beneath the floorboards and inside the walls. And I wondered if they could hear him too. He could hear the old donkey and the stables softly bring to itself to sleep at night. And the two carriage horses, swatting flies with their tails in summer. He had never seen them, but he knew they were there. And in winter, he could even hear snow falling in the courtyard. The worst weather produce the loveliest of founds, whoosh, whoosh. And he wondered if this was a kind of song, this melody of snow, and it's by chance spring a bird, small and delicate of wing was singing of the tree outside the wall. Number 13 could hear her clear as a bell from inside the home. He could hear the quiet snap of every twig, the gentle flutter up for wings. As she flew from branch to branch loveliest of all, he could hear her tender nesting song as she sorted through the air to her new home. And when he did her song filled him with such unbearable, longing, he thought his swollen heart would burst
Speaker 5 00:47:59 Very good. That is Mira Bartek reading from her new children's novel, the wonder link. And you're listening to right on radio on K F a I, uh, one of the things that, uh, I found interesting was the, um, the importance of music. I mean, you, you talk about it, uh, much more later in the book than you do earlier in the book, because earlier in the book, you're sort of telling us who these people are and what's going on, but then it becomes much more important as the book progresses. And I imagine will be a very important in book two as well.
Speaker 4 00:48:34 Yes. Um, it, it, um, it, my character, you know, he lives in this place, um, until he escapes where music is forbidden and, and, and the worst crime of all is to sing. And yet in his sleep, he starts singing. He can't help himself. And, um, and you learn more about that as time goes on and as, and more about his musical gifts. And, um, and the, the, you know, the book is called the Wonderlic, but the subtitle is, is, um, is, is sand catcher, which is a machine, um, that contains the most beautiful music and songs, songs, and sounds in the world. And that becomes a really important, um, sort of wondrous device that, um, number 13 slash Arthur discovers, and yes, music is so important, um, and expressing oneself and be a man and, and our, our young heroes imagination, which has been stifled in this place. Um, and it definitely is important in book two, book two is called singing tree and, um, music takes on a whole other whole other power, um, in a kind of a larger and a larger, larger way. Um, I can't give anything away, but definitely, definitely there's music and a couple of the characters, you know, like there's one character is very much like a combination of Fagin and, um, are there for Dodger in Quintus. Um, um, he, he's always making up signs and, um, and, uh, so yeah, singing music very important. Sure.
Speaker 5 00:50:29 Right. Yeah. I was, I was thinking about that as I was, uh, coming up with questions that I was trying to decide if Quintus was more like Fagan or more like the artful Dodger. And I just decided he was a combination of the, both of them. And, uh, yeah. One of the other things that you do is you you've created this world. Of course, uh, you've got lumen town and gloom in-town and, uh, um, this whole world, but you, you kept the R three and legend of the <inaudible> and mythology. And, uh, uh, I, I was curious about the decision-making process, you know, what, what led you to decide to, to keep certain elements of our past mythology and at the same time, create this completely different sort of world. Was it just a fascination with that particular story?
Speaker 4 00:51:24 Um, I think that, um, this may sound really silly cause I don't actually, I'd actually don't, I wasn't raised with TV and, and, um, so I kind of missed out miss miss a lot of cultural cues and I don't have, I live in a small town and we are very rural area in a very rural area where we don't have high speed internet. And, um, and so whatever I walk, I either get DVD movies or, um, or once in a while I'll get a television series. And I discovered this television series that was on this, I guess, scifi channel a while back called Merlin it's it's with, um, the Irish act, young actor, uh, Colin, Colin Morgan plays, um, young Merlin it's it's, uh, obviously it's a fantasy and it's about, um, if Merlin was young, not this old bearded dude, um, was there and he gets to know Arthur Young Arthur as a young, um, young man before he becomes a King, um, what would happen?
Speaker 4 00:52:33 And I fell in love with the series and I fell in love in particular with the young Merlin and, and I, when I was w was why I watched the show, um, all the, all the episodes before I wrote, wrote the Wonderland. And that's kind of what made me decide to mess around with our Syrian legend, um, because they do, they take various, um, our theory in trophy in the show and they, they just play with them and do really interesting things and which, which there are many ways, you know, there are many ways to tell the story, but I think that what at the, at its heart, what kept him, captivated me, was the idea of this character who is pure of pure of heart, um, and who, um, you know, kind of like a babe character, right? Um, who, who, who is, um, who, because of his innocence and his, his, his goodness, his essential goodness, um, he's able to transform situations, he's able to do, do good things, you know, amazing things.
Speaker 4 00:53:51 Um, you know, of course you, you don't really see, you don't see his sort of power, um, as much until, um, you see that more in book to say, yeah, but, um, in this television series, Merlin was that kind of character. And, and that just re and, and seeing that series, I think reminded me of all those books and, um, movies that I loved, um, where there is this character who, who saves the day, not necessarily by fighting, you know, and, and having a big battle with people, you know, being a kind of warrior character, but rather someone who, who sings he was saying, yeah, well, it was good. It
Speaker 0 00:54:34 Was great. We're we're out of time. So we're going to have to leave it at that.
Speaker 4 00:54:36 But, uh, uh, I really liked that. And I look forward to seeing a reading book too
Speaker 0 00:54:41 Well, when that comes out, this is Steve McEllis trim speaking with Mira Bartek about her new children's novel, the Wonderlic Mira Bartek. Thanks for being on right on radio.
Speaker 4 00:54:52 Thank you, Steve. Thanks so much. It was great to be here.
Speaker 0 00:54:55 Great. And now this <inaudible>, you are listening to right on radio on cafe 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Josh Webber love to thank our guest tonight, Ron Neren plus our listeners who make this show possible without your support and donations cafe would not be possible. You can find more news and info about right on radio at cafe.org/programs/radar radio. Plus listened to recent episodes on our recently launched podcast found on Spotify, iTunes, and anywhere podcasts can be found. Now stay tuned for bone jaw, Minnesota. <inaudible>.
