Speaker 1 00:00:42 You are listening to Right on Radio on k a a 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Molly Ray On tonight's program, Liz Olds chats with Paul Mesa about his collection of poetry, pros, stories, and songs titled Alphabet Jazz. Mesa describes it as a personal diary of sorts, midnight blasts of inspiration, love letters and poem, personal tributes to musicians and friends who have passed on true stories, letters to the editor and friends and songs I have written along that I still perform.
Speaker 2 00:01:19 Then in the last part of the hour, Molly Ray talks with Samuel Robertson about his work, the Illustrated Old Testament, from 1111 press printed locally in Minneapolis. This 12 by nine hardcover work contains 520 pages, 257 illustrations, and a dust jacket with some surprises, all of this and more. So stay tuned to right on radio.
Speaker 3 00:02:07 Hello, Paul, are you there?
Speaker 4 00:02:09 Yes, I am. Can you, what's the, do I get log in a password here?
Speaker 3 00:02:14 No, we're good. We're good. We got you on air. Can't see you, but we got you on the air. Okay. Um, we are talking tonight with, uh, multi-talented, uh, what I can I call you a troubador, a Minnesota Troubador.
Speaker 4 00:02:30 I'm a troubador. I'm a Troubador front door, the back Ondor.
Speaker 3 00:02:36 Uh, Paul Mets the author of Alphabet Jazz among many, many, many other things. Uh, welcome to Write on Radio. Paul,
Speaker 4 00:02:44 Thank you very much for having me
Speaker 3 00:02:47 Say, why don't we start out with a reading from the book, and then we'll get into talking about it.
Speaker 4 00:02:53 Alrighty. Let, let me grab my book here. How about, uh, how about the poem that opens the book memo from Rego Park?
Speaker 3 00:03:05 That sounds great.
Speaker 4 00:03:07 Here we go. A dog whistle, wind night paint spray on disappearing Street, arpeggio Vapor Trail, and a Beach Blonde discount training Lopez and Family. Two, two or three Core Monte Hall behind doors numbered two and three. Give the Chevy Nova to someone who cares or needs it with Civil War Alibis Cattle Car, lone Street Song, homeless on a borrowed harp, baby blue Cadillacs and matching lingerie lone, some chorus, hallelujah bunk bed, goodnight poems, ivory trinket lullaby. Last trick ponies for we small children on subways of the dam, blue Light echoes static volume. Curtain calls May Easter West and someone named Frenchie When you least need him, forgive. But don't forget, apply, but don't return. They've all taken all your numbers away, gave you a Spanish alphabet nicknames and a joke book, babysitters West Coast Dream cast Iron ukuleles, semi-permanent straw hat 10 star Promise, and someone else's name in the Witness Protection Program of your choice. Bye. You need more. What else is new? Straight circle overcoat, bad mustache, no bungalow for Romeo Flophouse Magazines, lemon Tongue Promise, A Missed Kiss, or two car keys and a razor blade. Hoping we'd have more to show for this. Raise your hand in a moment of silence, but don't cease to dream for. They can't steal that in our irregular moments of grace.
Speaker 3 00:05:07 That was a poem from Alphabet, jazz, poetry, prose stories and songs by Paul Mesa. What was the name of that poem again?
Speaker 4 00:05:16 Uh, memo from Regal Park.
Speaker 3 00:05:19 Okay,
Speaker 4 00:05:19 Rose, that one. Um, go ahead.
Speaker 3 00:05:23 Well, I was just gonna ask you, you wrote a straight up memoir about 10 years ago, blue Guitar Highway.
Speaker 4 00:05:29 That's
Speaker 3 00:05:29 Correct. And I'm, I'm wondering what prompted you to write this particular book, which is kind of a, a memoir in story and poetry and song. Uh, what prompted you to write this book?
Speaker 4 00:05:43 Well, um, my first book, uh, blue Guitar Highway came out in 2011. That was a pretty much strict autobiography. Uh, everything told from my point of view. Of course, it had a bunch of, you know, great friends, cool people, uh, family and fo and, uh, this was now, and that actually is coming out again in paperback on the spring of 2023 by the University of Minnesota Press. They're also publishing a book I wrote, I did most of the interviews for, and I, uh, co-wrote it with a guy named Rick Schick called The Blood in the Tracks, the Minnesota Missions, uh, musicians Behind Dylan's Masterpiece that's also coming out. But the book we're talking about, alphabet, jazz, it was just a bunch of stuff I head sitting around, uh, Liz and I was getting ready to move outta Minneapolis in about two years ago, and I just kept going through drawers, which I had to go through anyway, and I had enough stuff. I go, I think there's a nice collection of writings here and a variety of stuff like, uh, the title says, uh, has poetry, pros, stories and songs.
Speaker 3 00:07:04 Let's talk a little bit just, just to get people who perhaps don't know you, although I can't imagine somebody doesn't know you, but just in case they do, why don't you tell us a little bit about your past when you started, uh, playing music, uh, when you started performing and, uh, and when you started writing your own stuff.
Speaker 4 00:07:23 Uh, short story, um, went to see an Elvis Presley movie, uh, when I was in third grade, uh, saw this handsome guy with this great voice, drove great cars, played cool guitars, had a bunch of cool girlfriends, and won all the fights. I go, that's what I wanna do for a living. So that's kinda where it all started. Then I got a guitar and I started playing and, uh, I wrote my first song a few, few years later when I was in fifth grade called How Many Times Must Stay Crying, and I wrote it with a friend of mine, Chuck Christiansen. We had a little folk duo call Paul and Christian, and we thought we were the Iron ranges answered of Simon and Gar Focal <laugh>. And so that's really when I wrote my first song. I played, uh, all through, uh, junior High and high school.
Speaker 4 00:08:22 My bands were, uh, the Positive Reaction Grade School, rock band, damn, everything but the Circus High School Rock Band, uh, then ca uh, hot Walleye, which became Cats and of the Stars in 1975. So I've been writing, uh, songs all along way, but I've also done a lot of pros and I, I don't necessarily journal, but I just write stuff down as it comes to me. You know, might be in a bar or coffee shop and write it on a napkin or, uh, airsickness sickness bag if I'm flying. So anyway, they just, all this stuff adds up over time. And so I decided this stuff, uh, to put it all together, just kind of a fun collection. It was a great way to remember some very good friends of mine, uh, who passed away as well.
Speaker 3 00:09:14 Yeah, there's some lovely attributes I'm thinking in particular. Well, uh, bill Hinckley, of course, and Willie Murphy, but I'm also thinking particularly of Sue McClain. Yeah, we worked closely with her over at k a I as well. Uh, would you share a little bit about her?
Speaker 4 00:09:31 Uh, she was a really powerful woman, probably one of the most powerful independent female music promoters in the country. She started in about 1973 or four. She booked her very first gig. She booked the suicide commandos for a high school prom. Found out she really enjoyed that part of the music business. So she just went on, she ended up moving from St. Cloud where she booked some stuff at I believe St. Cloud State, and then moved down to Minneapolis and got involved with some of the booking agents, booking agencies down here, and booked all kinds of music. Ended up booking, uh, shows for the Walker Arts Center that she put in the, uh, Guthrie Theater. And when I saw Leo Conkey there in 72, uh, I walked out of there after concert, said, that's what I wanna do for a living. Um, reconfirming what I said in third grade at the Elvis movie. Uh, my only goal was to play the Guthrie Theater. And so when I moved to Minneapolis, Sue was booking it and I got to know her. She ended up booking me there eight times. And like I say in that chapter on Sue, she did more for my, uh, career really than anybody. But she was a really delightful, brilliant human. And, uh, her staff is all female and, uh, she's a real beacon of life for female empowerment. And she had beautiful taste in music and had incredible sense of humor
Speaker 3 00:11:15 In addition to Sue, who were some of the, uh, other, uh, guiding lights of the music business here in the Twin Cities and also in Minnesota that you have enjoyed the chance to play with?
Speaker 4 00:11:28 Um, well, I've been fortunate. I've played with just about everybody who I used to dream about playing with when I moved to Minneapolis in 78. People like Willie Murphy and, and John Kerner, although I've seen more shows than I've actually sat in with him. Um, bill Hinkley, Judy Larson, William Murphy, uh, and then there's, there's South Southside, Minneapolis, you know, ipso facto and Kurt o Beta and all the, uh, uh, newer blues cats and electric blues and acoustic blues. And, um, yeah. So I, I just start thinking about it all night and I get, uh, lost about what we were actually talking about. But, uh, yeah, so I write about, in my book Alphabet Jazz, I write about Willie Walker, who's a dear, dear friend of mine. We played together weekly for 10 years, and, uh, he passed away, oh, I think three years ago now. And, uh, so I have a nice chapter about my relationship with him and the music we made and the time we spent together.
Speaker 4 00:12:41 I mean, it was much about just, uh, enjoying him as a human being as it was playing with him. Although playing with him was a great honor. And then, of course, as you say, Willie Murphy, he kinda kicks off the book with the little piece I all called Honey From the Bee, which was an oit. I wrote from In Post When Will Died. And then I've got people like Jeannie Peterson, the matriarch of the incredible Peterson family, uh, played up until her 90th birthday, which I saw at the old live theater. And, uh, uh, a little story about the ninth Spider John Crew and I spent with Guy Clark in Towns Van Zant until we was of the morning at the Raison Hotel. So, um, there's high jinks of fun stuff hanging out bars, family, lot of dog stuff in there. Did you get a chance to read the dog stuff, Liz?
Speaker 3 00:13:34 Oh yeah. I was gonna ask you about Blackie. Uh, if you wanna share some about, uh, about him, that would be great.
Speaker 4 00:13:41 Well, Blackie was my first rescue, and we lived, uh, we had 16 great years together, and it was very cosmic relationship. So I have a piece in there from the day I met him until the day we had to put him down. I tell the whole 16 year story, and it's called, uh, uh, a dog in his man, uh, Blackie and Paul mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, uh, then I also, and he wrote about a six page, uh, story in there from his canine point of view mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, uh, I had no idea when I adopted him that he was that talented. Oddly enough, the rescue that I had after Blackie made Blackie rest in Peace was a dog named Blue, a rescue from Alabama. And, uh, so I wrote a story towards the end of the book called What a Difference A Dog Makes. And then Blue actually wrote the poem. Would you like to hear that?
Speaker 3 00:14:45 I'd love to hear that.
Speaker 4 00:14:48 And once again, I had no idea he was that talented <laugh>. And if we can, let's see, find the right page.
Speaker 3 00:15:08 We're speaking with Paul Metta, author of, uh, well, well, the Moment in and very talented, uh, musician from Minnesota. Uh, he's reading from his book Alphabet Jazz, A collection of stories and poems and songs and tributes and many other things. And we're gonna hear a poem now about, uh, okay,
Speaker 4 00:15:29 You know what,
Speaker 3 00:15:29 Heard by Blue.
Speaker 4 00:15:31 Okay, I'm gonna go grab it. Um, long story, it's not in this copy. Let me get it.
Speaker 3 00:15:41 We're, uh, he's getting a book so that we can hear this poem, A lovely poem about dogs. Uh, Paul is very into rescue animals, and, uh, when he gets back, he might wanna get a pen and a piece of paper, because I'm gonna ask him about, uh, the, uh, rescue organizations that he's familiar with. Uh, you might, uh, uh, be interested in that. Yeah. Uh, if you're into rescues, um, Polly back.
Speaker 4 00:16:10 I sure am Liz. And here we go. Now, blue, just when I was finishing the book, he just laid there. I woke up one morning and I found a piece of crumple paper and I opened it up. He was blue. He's very talented, but he doesn't have very good handwriting. So it took me a while to figure what he out he was writing about. But after doing a little research, I found out, you know, he was left on the side of a highway in Alabama. His name was Highway when I adopted him. Um, but anyway, so every, uh, person he references here is a fellow Alabamian says he named it after himself. Um, it's called Blue. I was left on a highway in Alabama just for Paws and me on a highway ridden by those blind, like Helen Keller. And those who wrote like Harper Lee, those who ran like Jesse Owens and like Rosa Parks, who sat so silently, like Zelda, who married F Scott Fitzgerald in Sun, louder than Cannons, Onri e I'm both soft and loud like that took, but one day for you to see hearts collide and not like that as one, that man dog, Jim Malie, that God, he's a funny God, the universe from A to Z who is to ask who really knows matters, not to you or me.
Speaker 3 00:17:52 I'm called Blue.
Speaker 4 00:17:53 Yep. Written by Kids. Got a few written
Speaker 3 00:17:57 By Blue,
Speaker 4 00:17:58 And it's called Blue.
Speaker 3 00:18:02 So you, uh, mentioned the names of some of the rescue organizations that you've worked with. I noticed you put that in the book.
Speaker 4 00:18:09 Yes. There is a great one, um, that I recommend, or I got, and I think if I can't pull it right off the beginning here, uh, you can track it down if you Google it. Oh, here we go. I got wacky from a, a no Kill shelter up in Macon, Minnesota, Northern Minnesota called Con Contented Critters. Their website is www.contentedcritters.org and tell 'em Blackie sent you, and it's the holidays. So send 'em some money for treats for the, for the animals. And then the other one is where Blue came from, that's called Heart of Alabama. Save Rescue Adopt. And that's just www dot h a s r A DG org, www.hsradg.org.
Speaker 3 00:19:23 Great. Thank you.
Speaker 4 00:19:24 Thank you for considering doing that kind people.
Speaker 3 00:19:28 Thank you for that information. So, uh, back to some music stuff. I'm wondering, do you consider yourself blues, folk rock, or kind of a amalgam of all three?
Speaker 4 00:19:39 I'm just, you know, I play a little bit of all of it. Um, a lot of people think I'm a blues cat, but I, I don't consider myself a blues cat, although it's one of the bedrock foundations of the music I play. Um, I'm just really, uh, just American musician, I think simply.
Speaker 3 00:19:59 And, uh, where are some of the places that you've played that you really have enjoyed saying the Twin Cities are up in Belu?
Speaker 4 00:20:06 Well, let's talk the Twin Cities. Right by K F E I, I did four years of Tuesdays at the 400 Bar with Cats and the Stars. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I moved up to the Paul Mea, started out the Paul Mea Tree on that Paul MEA Group at The Five Corners. And we were there for 237 consecutive Tuesdays. Of course. Now, when I first moved to town, I also had the pleasure of playing the cafe stamp and the new Riverside Cafe. Um, and the Cats on the Stars actually did a gig. I remember we had a singing saw that we played at K F A I when they were back in the Walker Church back in the late seventies. So really just in that little triangle, so to speak, because the Triangle Bar was right across that little alley. Um, a lot of places there. Duluth, my very first show was one of my most memorable.
Speaker 4 00:21:09 I put up my record Paper Tigers in 1984, my first album of all my own stuff. And I opened up for Taj Maha at the North Shore Theater in Duluth, which is now reopened and rehabbed. And it's, it's just gorgeous. So I did about a half hour opening for ta ta plays about two hours and 15 minutes. Dave Ray was playing next door at a coffee shop. So ta and I would go next door to see Dave ta sits in with him for about an hour. Then we go up to a party and two great musicians and good people, John Ward, um, and, uh, uh, Lori Hatton and had a jam at their house till about, I left at three 30. Taj was still playing. And 1984, he had a button on and said 40 and feeling sexy. And, uh, so finally at three 30, I sat, Taj, you win, you're the king. I gotta go sleep. Uh, but anyway, so that's, but I've had, you know, I've been lucky to have a lot of, uh, great gigs and a lot of great cities, a lot of great places, and a lot of nightmare gigs. And a lot of those are, yeah, book Blue Guitar Highway. There's a couple in Alphabet you has as well. You gotta keep it real.
Speaker 3 00:22:36 Yeah. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 4 00:22:39 Can I ask you like Liz, lemme pardon me. Can I ask your question?
Speaker 3 00:22:45 Sure.
Speaker 4 00:22:46 Now, what did you like about the book? Cause you're one of the first people that have read it.
Speaker 3 00:22:54 I really liked, well, I especially loved the tributes. I knew some of those people, and it kind of, it did my heart good. And I liked the whole book. I liked the way you put it together. I liked all the, you know, after having read your, uh, autobiography, this was kind of a different kind of a memoir. Yeah. That, uh, was, uh, really, uh, wonderful. I wanna get back to you actually, because we've only got about three minutes left. Uh, why don't, uh, you tell us what you're doing next. Oh, you did the book about Bob Dylan, but why don't you go into that again?
Speaker 4 00:23:30 Well, this is what I'm doing. I'm, I had a, uh, foot injury about a month ago, so I'm kind of laid up until the first of the year. Uh, I had a, I was gonna do a couple of, uh, book release parties up here in Martha, the Hook and Ladder with our friend Jackson Buck. But I had to cancel those until I heal up. I mean, I'm in good shape, but it's just, uh, I gotta take some time for this thing to heal. So then, uh, I'm just trying to sell my book online. You can get
[email protected] and, uh, uh, looking forward to taking this on the road and actually do a show called Alphabet Jazz, so I can, uh, grab my guitar, play my music, and read my poetry, uh, my pros, and tell my stories, play my songs. That's wonderful. Call my 2023.
Speaker 3 00:24:27 That's wonderful. Paul, we have been talking to Paul Mesa, Minnesota Troubador extraordinaire about his book Alphabet Jazz, A collection of, uh, stories, songs, poems, a little bit of everything. Uh, Paul, thank you very much for joining us. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:24:44 And if you get the book, there's a QR code, you can get 14 free songs, and I'm just gonna be putting a CD probably down at the Electric Fetus. So I've had actual CD companion, so people don't want the book, just want the cd. They've got that option. But I think that like both.
Speaker 3 00:25:03 Great. Uh, thanks so much for joining us, Paul. I gotta let you go now, but it's been wonderful talking to you. Uh, the name of the book is Alphabet Jazz.
Speaker 4 00:25:13 Thanks, Liz. Have a beautiful, uh, rest of the 2022.
Speaker 3 00:25:18 You too. Thanks a lot. Thank you. And now this.
Speaker 6 00:25:39 Okay. Hi, this is Molly Ray with Right on Radio on K F A I. I am here today with Samuel Robertson to discuss his new book, the Old Testament, king James version that he illustrated. Uh, how are you doing, Sam?
Speaker 7 00:25:55 I'm doing good. Uh, thanks for having me. And right on. I listen to Kfa like every week. I just gotta get that out of the way. I'm a big fan, so, um, yeah, I'm doing good.
Speaker 6 00:26:07 Cool. Yeah, very, really excited to have you. Um, I guess I can just start off right away and ask, um, are you from Minneapolis then?
Speaker 7 00:26:15 Um, I'm not from here. I grew up in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. Um, but I've been here since 2006. Um, so yeah.
Speaker 6 00:26:23 Did, uh, anything, obviously it doesn't have to, but did your upbringing and kind of where you're from influence your relationship with kind of the topics of this? Obviously this is a Bible and you've filled it with art to an extent. Has that been affected by kind of growing up in the Midwest?
Speaker 7 00:26:42 Yeah. Well, I, it was affected on some level, not like too immediately or anything, but I did go to Catholic school mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, up, up through sixth grade and then like, went to church and stuff up until like 15 or something. But, um, I never, like, it was always a chore, you know, I was never, I never was that invested in the, in the situation, but mm-hmm. <affirmative>, so it was like kind of dormant in the back of my mind, just religion and, and church and stuff. But it was never, yeah. It almost, it seems so distant that it wasn't an influence of the project on any like, immediate level subconsciously maybe, but,
Speaker 6 00:27:28 Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I grew up in the Midwest too. It's just, you know, forever present kind of stuff. Um, what is, uh, can you give us your description of this book and project? It's a, it's, there's a lot of facets to it, it seems. So it's nice to hear directly from you what your goal was and process.
Speaker 7 00:27:49 Yeah. I mean, I guess I can try. I, I feel like maybe somebody else could do it better than me. <laugh>, if anybody wants to try to like, review it or tell me what you feel like, I would love to hear your thoughts. Um, but it's just, I, I wanted to illustrate a book and, and stumble on the Old Testament as like, um, something I'd want to try. And it just made sense intuitively that this is the one I want to do, like as soon as I, um, landed on it. But the book itself, it's, it's a big hardcover book, uh, almost 260 paintings in it. And it's paired with the entire text of the King James Old Testament. Um, and that text was the, the one I wanted cuz like, the kind of archaic, ancient language mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I, I felt like it would pair with my style in a way.
Speaker 7 00:28:43 Then I, I, I didn't even understand how it would, but it, it turned out to work like how I needed it to. Um, but then, yeah, like I selected for each of these paintings, I selected a passage, um, to base it on, or like, I selected the passage and then made the painting mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but then the style of the paintings themselves, they're like kind of cartoonish, but it's like more nuanced than that. It's not just like a, not, it's not a cartoon mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and it's, but the common thread through it all is like, I think humor for the most part, but I'm not, I'm not making fun of the Bible with it, but that's just like the language that I have used for my art, um mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So cuz it just kind of feels universal or something that everyone can kind of relate to. Um, yeah. But yeah, it's like a, it's a modern, modern take on the ancient words. Um, and people have said it's kinda like surreal or psychedelic, but I mean, maybe, I don't know. So,
Speaker 6 00:29:47 But yeah. Yeah, I definitely like, it's really bright and colorful, but it's definitely not like comicy. It, it has like, it's, it's, I mean it's definitely like fine art from my opinion. Like, but it's like it's your style, which is super unique. Uh, I wanna share that. So Sam's Old Testament is 520 pages with Yeah. 257 illustrations. I think that's what I read. And then there are surprise elements to the physical book, like it's a large book. And then it took, I understand that it took you many years to put this together and that certain parts of it have been seen publicly already, or at least the art of it. And then, so this is like the year that it was finally joed down, but there's been kind of a variated process to it.
Speaker 7 00:30:34 Um, definitely.
Speaker 6 00:30:36 Yeah. Um, so you said you were painting them and so, so all the illustrations is the medium paint and what kind of paint is it?
Speaker 7 00:30:47 Yeah, there, it's, um, it's all house paint, so like latex paint. Um, and I just, I always, I used to use that just because it was like affordable and free and stuff. And then, but I, I really love how it works, so it just, it's something that I always have gravitated to. And then in this project it's just like very free and you can kind of do whatever you want with it. You can paint over things that don't work, so you can like work really loosely. Um, yeah. And then to answer your question before that, yeah, it was like a seven year project. Um, and then I've had four exhibitions throughout it where I've showed the, the paintings to, um, an audience at a gallery once in the Heart of the Beast Theater. And for that one I had like a, the whole main auditorium area of it. So I got like, I've built out this huge eight foot by eight foot cube to display art on the inside and outside as well as like, on the walls around it. So that was kind of like a fun one. Um, and I've spoken at some churches, two of 'em and a college and I did a book tour. So yeah, it has been seen, have has some exposure, but
Speaker 6 00:32:05 Yeah. And that's, and then so how did you know when you were done? This is a, this is a top question. <laugh>
Speaker 7 00:32:12 Yeah. With a book?
Speaker 6 00:32:14 Yeah.
Speaker 7 00:32:15 Um, well I did it kind of, um, chronologically. So I just did a book at a time and when I finished the, the painting for Malachi, the last book of the Old Testament, then, then I was done, it was the last one. Wow. Um, but they're a kind of selected painting or passages that were roughly three pages apart. Um, cuz this, the way that I made the book, it's like a page of text and an illustration alternating. So when, so like three pages of the actual Bible that I was working from mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like picking the passages from equals like one big page of the 12 by nine. So that's kind of how I, um Okay. Selected the, the number of paintings that I had to do.
Speaker 6 00:33:09 Yeah. Cool. Um, so the phrases, you illustrated it from the King James version of the Bible, it, it brought forth, yeah. It's kind of like modern, twisted, chaotic. And I have a passion for like, dystopian writing and art. So I of course associate it to dystopia. Um, what was, how did you pick, which phrases did they, like, you just waited for ones to pop out to you, but like, how did you describe, would you describe your process of taking inspiration and finding these visuals from passages?
Speaker 7 00:33:43 Yeah, I think I, it was kind of dystopian, like the image imagery that I wanted to portray or, um, the passages that I was choosing, cuz there, there's a lot of gloom and doom in it. Um, and like those ones would resonate with me. So, but yeah, so there, there's this ones that I would, that that seemed like really fun ones to illustrate. Like I knew that I would, I would, uh, have good luck with it if I was gonna paint 'em. So, um mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:34:19 Okay. Uh, I really liked the depictions of food that you were, that I found in some of the images. Like there are especially like hamburgers, pizza, and like to go food. Will you tell me about these like relationships to food in the art?
Speaker 7 00:34:37 Sure. Yeah. There's like, like I said, there's like a lot of doom and gloom stuff, but there's also like a ton of food, um, descriptions of like feasts and, um, and I, I've just like always liked in my art. Like, I like portraying like eating and drinking scenes just like consuming food cuz Yeah. I think about like people as consumers a lot in, in my, the work that I do. So, um, I just kind of fit with my aesthetic mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, yeah. So then I like to, like, even before this project, I do like a lot of people eating burgers and pizza and stuff and then yeah. Just kind of, kind of fit into this one too.
Speaker 6 00:35:24 Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of part of, yeah. Your ancient text, putting it into like this modern art. Definitely trans, it definitely translated into that. Uh, and I, I am gonna ask the next question. Um, the, some of 'em had very, some of these images of very specifical choices of monos and some of 'em are really flat and plain and others are really whimsical and colorful and wild. Um, did these atmospheres represent anything or come from somewhere specifically?
Speaker 7 00:35:55 Yeah, they're not like, um, it was more of an effort to keep, keep it fresh and interesting to me, like to grow as a painter during the production of it. So it kind of, that, that would be one, um, sort of constraint I would choose, would be like to do something more monochrome or to like mix it up. Like the whole book of Isaiah, when I painted it, I wanted it to be like, pretty much all black with like a, a, a light focus where like the light would kind of emanate from in the paintings. Um, like it started with a painting from Psalms that was like a, in the, in the, the words for it, it was about night watches. So that got me thinking about like, um, Indi Glow watches, which I was obsessed with as a kid when you like can turn your light on and it glows in the dark.
Speaker 7 00:36:49 Yeah. So like that, that was the light source for one of the paintings is this guy with his night watch on. Wow. Um, and just kind of, it illuminates him and then it gets darker away from the source of the light. So mm-hmm. <affirmative> that, that's what got, got me thinking about just like a really, really dark paintings. And then that's for the book of Isaiah, like I said. Um, but I would just kinda, and then after that, like it really got me thinking about contrast and stuff. So like the illustrations before Isaiah were less, there were just more vivid and kind of all over the place. But then like after it got me like really thinking about contrast, so I was kind of trying to push the focus of the paintings around more, if that makes sense. Yeah. Because of what I learned from that book. Um, cool. So kind of more eye catching or, yeah. I don't know.
Speaker 6 00:37:42 Yeah. Well they are, yeah, definitely they are. Um, okay. So tell me, obviously people are, have been perceiving this and you've had stuff in galleries that, versus people just viewing this in the physical book. Um, have you had any interesting interactions with people that are viewing your work or like commentary that you've gotten from people that are viewing it and maybe didn't know what to expect or thought they know what to expect?
Speaker 7 00:38:11 Definitely. Um, it's, I feel like generally been really positive, um, at shows because like people are coming to see this, you know, so they like kind of expecting, maybe expecting to enjoy it or something like that, but mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there's like a big chunk of people that are totally indifferent to it, which is to be expected. But, um, people have seemed really enthused about it. And I really like watching people at the shows. Like, I like when they like look at the painting, like really focused on it and then they start laughing cause they're like, something clicks. Like, I really love that. Um, I love witnessing that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Cause like I said, it's like humor's the thread that runs through my whole work. Um, so I love when it clicks, but then, but I, I like arrange the paintings in a procession for all of the shows so they, like people can walk through and just see them linearly as they appear in the book and like the, the order that I painted them. Um, but then at the end I leave a, a notebook for people to either sign up for my mailing list or like leave some comments. And there's been some like negative comments in there too, which I do like to hear, you know? Yeah. Uh, and I, one of 'em was if you keep practicing maybe you'll get better
Speaker 6 00:39:34 <laugh>. And
Speaker 7 00:39:35 It's just really nice to hear that. And then, um, one other one was, your paintings are only worth the Bible verse that inspired them.
Speaker 6 00:39:44 Ooh. Like, wow, that's a good one.
Speaker 7 00:39:46 Yeah. So, but I'll take any of it. Just, I want to know what people are thinking. So I'd rather than say that than don't
Speaker 6 00:39:54 I was gonna say the Bible has a pretty large reputation, so maybe your paintings are <laugh>.
Speaker 7 00:39:59 Yeah,
Speaker 6 00:40:00 Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's, that's pretty good. Wow. Uh, so I, I know that 1111 Press published this giant wonderful book. Uh, how did you get involved with them?
Speaker 7 00:40:15 Um, my friend Grant Meyer Hopper published a book with them and I illustrated the cover for it. Okay. Um, but this was before I knew the press or anything, but then I went to the Twin Cities book Festival a few years back, um mm-hmm. <affirmative> with the idea to be looking for publishers. Cool. Um, because I've had no, I, before that I had like no luck finding publishers. Like I would go to bookstores and look at all the big art books and write down all the potential publishers that like could handle a project of this size or mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and I like submitted to like dozens and dozens of publishers to like crickets radio, silence, nothing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but I met Andrew there, Andrew Wilt, who's one of the founders of the press mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and I was like, whoa, I know 1111 Press. My friend wrote a book with you guys and he is like, whoa, you're Sam, you did the cover for Grant's book.
Speaker 7 00:41:15 And, and then we just stayed in touch and, and it worked out. And Andrew is interested in the, in the Bible because he was raised with a pretty strict religious upbringing that he, he struggled with, but it also like left him open to this kind of thing. So where other publishers like wouldn't dare touch something so polarizing. Yeah. And confusing and like, honestly confusing is my interpretation of this text. Um, he like, he like found it within him to be interested enough in this to pursue it. And it was like probably the most work they've had to do for one of their books yet. It was just like a lot of back and forth for a long time, so.
Speaker 6 00:41:58 Wow. Yeah. Really be, yeah. That's a great, that's a great story of connections. Um, so lastly, I know you mentioned that you started a podcast about your process of selling these books. And I, I don't know if that's related to I, like, I wanted to comment that I've seen on social media that you were doing a door to door experiment in sales as well. Um, do you wanna share about this podcast you were talking about?
Speaker 7 00:42:24 Yeah. Um, I made, uh, like a pilot teaser episode to take, um, my book tour with me to kind of show about this concept, um, where I have a hidden mic and I knock on people's doors and try to sell 'em the book like an old time Bible salesman. But then it's like this, a very strange version of it. And, but nobody's even up until now, no one has even let me open my briefcase to show them the book yet. I've only, I only tried one day to like do this. Um, but the, for the podcast, um, the, the premise that door to door salesman premise is like really interesting, but it's also like, it seems limited now the more I think about it. Um, so there will be some of it, the door to door stuff, but that won't be the primary focus anymore.
Speaker 7 00:43:17 Um, and yeah, I'm, so I'm working on the script for it. It's turned into like a completely scripted thing with like some hidden mic stuff. Um, and it's gonna be called Birth of a Salesman and it's coming out June, 2023. Um, and it begins with me at my wit's end for how to get this book into the world. It's like, it's semi autobiographical for sure, but, um, cuz like after the initial sales trickle down to practically nothing, um, I, I start going door to door dressed like a Bible salesman from the seventies and then it just evolves from there. And it's, um, there's like good guys and bad guys and plot twists. And then the helpful, I, I meet a lot of people on the journey, um, and they kind of drive the plot suggesting that I diversify my, my sales approach in marketing this book. Um, and it, it's like riffing off of the play Death of a Salesman a little bit mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, cause that's, I I like came up with a name before I even read the book and I just read or the, the screenplay Yeah, the play. The play
Speaker 6 00:44:23 Play, yeah. <laugh>.
Speaker 7 00:44:24 Yeah. So, but, um, but then I just read it and it was a crazy play. It was so good. Um, but this one's gonna be like way more, my Birth of a Salesman is gonna be like way more optimistic. Um, and it's gonna be a comedy where my character is like almost too naive or aloof or something to actually get bummed out for long when things do go wrong. Um.
Speaker 6 00:44:47 Oh, that's great. Yeah.
Speaker 7 00:44:48 And he, and he just like really starts to buy into the American dream and thinks that he can save America with the Bible illustrated, but he is got no concept of his cultural or historical relevance, you know. But his goal in the, in the, um, podcast is to sell a hundred, a hundred thousand copies, um, of the book, one of which to the Pope, and then to sell the original 257 paintings to the Vatican for million, for like 1 million. Um, but it's also like, yeah, it's gonna be an opportunity to do some like gorilla advertising campaign mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, cause like someone, for example, someone in the story should tells me that I should have a website so I can pay for an advertisement at the DMV and like direct people to my website because everybody has gotta go to the DMV at some point in their life. <laugh>,
Speaker 6 00:45:43 I was just there. Yeah, <laugh>.
Speaker 7 00:45:44 Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. So like, you could have, you could see the, uh, the advertisement on the screen there, so you can imagine it. Wonderful. But then, yeah, there's other things like, I'm gonna get yard signs made and pamphlet at churches, and then I'm gonna get a billboard too that says there's a new Bible salesman in town. Wow. Um, and I'm just gonna try to have like, fun with it. Yeah. Um, make like the commercialization of this book, the, the actual art project that I'm doing, um, and be like a performance art piece within the podcast. And I get to collaborate with friends and actors and writers and just kind of, I'm just really excited about it.
Speaker 6 00:46:23 That's so exciting. I love that. It's that, ugh. Yeah, that's, it's super cool. I'm excited to start seeing that pop up. Um, and speaking of which, I'm gonna bring us to a close here in just a couple seconds, but, so people, if they wanna learn more about this and get updates, and also if they wanted to access, have access to a copy of your book. Of course. Um, would you please share your website that you have online that you have now? That one for the book? Yeah. Um, yeah.
Speaker 7 00:46:54 Yeah. You can order a copy online. Um, my new website is america's bible.com. That's like no apostrophe s it's just America's with no apostrophe bible.com. Um, right. And it's live now. I just made it live today. Um, yay.
Speaker 6 00:47:11 Congrats.
Speaker 7 00:47:12 Thanks. Yeah. I can't believe the domain was available, but, um,
Speaker 6 00:47:15 <laugh> <laugh> valid
Speaker 7 00:47:17 <laugh>. Yeah. Okay. But also there's yeah, a lot of information and links to order the book on my main website, mr robertson.com and Mr. Spelled out m i s t e r or go to my publisher's website 1111 press.com/old Testament. Yeah, perfect. And I got some some events coming up and stuff too. Do you want to Yeah,
Speaker 6 00:47:39 Yeah, if you have a couple events coming up, we can share those quick. And then, um, yeah.
Speaker 7 00:47:44 Um, on January 27th, uh, I know that's over two months from now, but from four to seven I'll be doing a presentation at Open Book, um, with an old art history professor of mine from the University of Minnesota. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, his name's jbs Shank. Um, and he's like, he's coincidentally working on his opus and it's like a huge study of illuminated manuscripts. So like, I went, I reached out to him and he was just like, I think in his email he said, I'm a very superstitious person and that you like reached out to me now, like is crazy. Um, but I'm like super excited to see what he comes up with. But we're solidifying the lineup of speakers. Um, and the, the event will use my book as a contemporary example that his insights will reference and kind of orbit around and there'll be history and art history professors and theologians and people like far more qualified than myself, um, about religion to like, to speak about this kind of thing. Yeah.
Speaker 6 00:48:43 Um,
Speaker 7 00:48:43 And it'll put my book in like an academic setting, which would be crazy.
Speaker 6 00:48:47 That's phenomenal. It, there's so much organization going on. That's cool. So yeah, america's bible.com, mr robertson.com. And then January 27th you said? Yep. At Open Book, which is on it's Washington Avenue, correct?
Speaker 7 00:49:04 Yes, I do believe
Speaker 6 00:49:05 So, yeah. Okay, great. That's really exciting. So, well, I wanted to thank you because we're at time that thank you so much for talking with me today. I'm so glad we finally got to, and I'm very lucky I got to see your exhibit. Um, hell above over in Seward. That's where I saw your works initially for the first time. And so, um, I'm glad that we could thank you so much. Circle and connect and so Me too. Thank Yeah. Yeah, it's great. It's the community is, and that's your collaboration with all these actors and other writers and academics. Sounds like it's great. Um, so I wanted to say, uh, thank you for listening to Right on Radio with Samuel Robertson and myself. I am Molly Ray, and next this
Speaker 8 00:50:22 You are listening to Right on Radio on K F A I 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Annie. I'd like to thank our special guest, uh, tonight, Paul Mesa and Samuel Robertson. Can you leave Riverdale on, um, and all our listeners without your support, um, without your support and donations. K a I would not be possible. You can find more news and info, but right on radio at kfi.org/right on radio, you can listen on all your favorite podcast platforms too. That's Spotify, iTunes, Google Podcast, apple Podcast.
