Speaker 1 00:00:39 You're listening to right on radio on KFA 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected] I'm savvy. And tonight I'll write on radio. David talks with SJ. Sindu the author of dominant genes, a new hybrid Chatbook of nonfiction and poetry from black Lawrence press. She is also the author of two, literally literary novels and a graphic novel. Her first novel marriage of a thousand lies when the publishing triangle Edmund white award and was a Stonewell honor book and a finalist for the Lambda literary award, Cindy teaches at the London or the university of Toronto Scarborough,
Speaker 2 00:01:16 And I'm Josh Webber in the last part of the hour. I speak with Ronald E. Pearson about his memoir in introvert, learns to fly and memoir of timidity, panic, science, leadership, and love from his early beginnings. Living in rural Minnesota, he eventually went to graduate Caltech with a PhD in physics, and eventually became an executive at Honeywell on the way he meets Nobel prize winners, testy, bosses, altruism, and people hang on the edge of society all the, some more. So stay tuned to run a radio.
Speaker 3 00:01:59 Hello, this is Dave Fettig and there is Sindu. Hello, how are you? How should I, how should I call you as Jason do? Um, what do you prefer? Cindy's fine. Cindy's fine. For official purposes. Okay. And we did that in our intro. Welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And you're joining us from Toronto. I am kindred winter spirit. You are. That's wonderful. Yes, it is very cold outside right now. Yeah, it is. Yeah. We have the same weather. Um, so, uh, uh, Sindu, let's talk about before we talk about dominant genes and, and some of your other work. I want to talk about some of your other work too. Um, we have a very bright, um, group of people, listen to our radio show. You have to realize that, but still, uh, let's talk about Tamil and, uh, where you're from and tell us why, um, that it's important for you to acknowledge your call yourself a Tamil diaspora writer. Um, so please situate that place in the world for us. I looked it up, I looked deep into it, but, uh, and tell us why that matters to you.
Speaker 4 00:03:10 Sure. Um, so then we'll is a, uh, I mean, it's, it's hard to, it's a hard to define category, right? It's sort of a linguistic, um, group and it's sort of an ethnic group. Um, it's sort of a cultural group. And so it's all of these things. It's linguistic, it's ethnic, it's cultural, uh, you know, tracing our heritage to either the south of India or the north of Sri Lanka, um, originally. And, uh, now most thumbnail people, you know, either live in the Homeland, if you will, in, in the thumbnail cradle, um, or live in diasporas. And there's many hundreds of thousands of people that live in diaspora communities in, uh, all over the world. Um, mostly in Malaysia, Singapore, uh, the UK Toronto, uh, and Sydney, Australia. And it's important to me because, uh, for a long time, regardless of, you know, where we've been, we've always been a minority group, um, within the states that we've, uh, lived under, um, for the last 300 years. And because of that, we've always faced a lot of struggle and a lot of, um, uh, difficulty being acknowledged as a different group, as a cultural, uh, culturally sovereign group, um, and, and have had to overcome a lot of, um, oppression over the years. And so, because of all of that, uh, it's, it's important to me to, to draw solidarity with fellow
Speaker 3 00:04:59 Well, thank you for that. And the diaspora, it's not a recent phenomenon then it's been going on for some time.
Speaker 4 00:05:05 Oh, yes. Um, so the sh you know, Sri Lankan thumbnails have been leaving Sri Lanka for a long time since the civil war started in 1983, uh, and, and devils have been living India for much longer than that.
Speaker 3 00:05:20 Thank you for that. Um, Sindu and, uh, we're going to be learning and at least hearing about, um, your culture and your background from your work. It's just so beautifully described in this chat book, dominant genes. So let's begin at the top here with a reading, if we could send you please. And, uh, um, hopefully we'll have a chance to hear from you more than once, because there's some really interesting pieces in here. There are poems, there are stories, there are things I'm not quite sure what they are, if they're a memoir or, um, but that's, what's fun about this, a really rich and long short book. I will call it that. So we're going to read for us first,
Speaker 4 00:05:57 I'm going to read from the very beginning, um, a very short piece called Briss story and a poem called gods in the search. Okay.
Speaker 3 00:06:04 Great
Speaker 4 00:06:06 Birth story. My mother out of love, stitches up my heart, pulling the thread tight to make sure it won't rupture again at the same spot. My heart is defenseless, ready to come undone at the next crisis while she's at it. My mother's ditches up my mouse too, and turns her needle and thread to my brain.
Speaker 3 00:06:35 Thank you. That Sindu SJ cinder reading from dominant genes, and you have just introduced a theme. I wanted to discuss at some point. So we're going to tickets right now, which is this idea of stitching, sewing, bringing things together, two sides, two people, two types of people. Two parts of Sindu. I take it from reading is so, uh, um, I don't want to give too much well, okay. Hey, it's, it's a main theme of the work, right. Um, and your mother is a big w plays a big role in, uh, uh, these works also in Lee, which leads me to another question. And, uh, w we often have this conversation with poets who write about family and friends. Is it hard for you to do that? Is it hard for them to see them in your work and how do you navigate the, you know, those choices that you have to make, if you want to be real?
Speaker 4 00:07:33 It is difficult. I think for my family, especially for my mother, she knows that I've been writing about her for a long time. Um, she used to Google my name when I was in college. And she'd like, see the things that I'd been writing and we'd have conversations at this point though. She's just sort of accepted it. And I think she chooses not to, to read a lot of the stuff that I write, especially the nonfiction and the poetry, because she knows that it would upset her. Um, but you know, I'm also coming from this very matrilineal heritage where thumb people have a very long history of, of matriarchy. And, um, you know, that's kind of what I'm exploring in this chat book is what I have inherited from the women of my family. Uh, whether that's, you know, physical traits or personality traits or cultural traits or memories, um, or trauma. And, and so I, I can't get away from writing about my mother, uh, even, even if it, you know, might not be the thing that she would choose, I read about it.
Speaker 3 00:08:41 Right, right, right. Um, you mentioned, uh, uh, I can't remember exactly where to use, but, uh, who you are and, uh, appearances and appearances really matter in a lot of these stories. Uh, and I want to just read a couple of brief sentences if I may, from, I'm going to pronounce this incorrectly drug potty walks alone at night close, uh, okay. Drop it here. Uh, at the end of the first paragraph point, I look younger than I am point. I neither I'm either skinny nor fat point. I come from a dominant cast now, I wasn't, it wasn't always clear to me. I send you if I'm reading about Sindu or a character you've created to write a story, uh, of these, these are memoirs or fiction. It's not always clear and that's fine. Um, but what I just read really stresses the fact that appearances matter and they've mattered for you. And do you want to talk about that and this and this story. I want you to talk a little bit more about this story too. It's fascinating.
Speaker 4 00:09:46 Um, so I think appearances matter a lot, especially for immigrant populations and, and immigrant families, because they're trying to, uh, not really assimilate into this culture, but give the appearance that they're simulating. So, you know, they want to keep the culture that they have brought with them, but at the same time, they don't want to be discriminated against. And the way to not be discriminated against often is to seem like they're, they have assimilated into whatever Western culture that they have, you know, uh, made themselves a part of. And so appearances, whether that's, you know, the clothes you wear or the way you hold yourself or the way you speak, um, all of these things start to matter a lot in, uh, not just to the family themselves and not just the community, but the outside world. Um, you know, how you present yourself as a visible, marked minority affects how you're treated, um, how you're received. And, you know, I'm, I'm a, uh, creative writing professor. And every time I walk into a classroom, how I dress and how I present and how I speak and how I hold myself will affect the way that my students respond to me. And so I can't, you know, I don't think that any of us, especially people who are marginalized can never get away from this idea that, um, are, we are constantly being judged on appearance. And so because of that appearance matters a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:11:25 Yeah. And it matters for the eye in this story, if that's you, and it matters for the eye and these poems, if that's you within the family, also not just in, in society, because, and you suggested this earlier, um, the women in your life, especially are worried about you. Um, and what's going to happen to you who you're going to be with. Um, there are many moments of humor, um, in this too. Uh, uh, but there's not a question there, but it's an observation that the, how you look matters at many levels, according to what yeah. Um, can you tell us a little more about this story, uh, dropped. He walks in one at night. Um, where did he come from? I was really intrigued by it. Uh,
Speaker 4 00:12:14 Yeah. Uh, so this particular piece, um, was, uh, originally solicited for an anthology called good girls, married doctors. Uh, it was a, an anthology of south Asian women writing about the expectations that we've been put under and how we speak back to that. And so I specifically am entranced with this, this mythology and throat with the, who is one of the main female characters of the Mahabharata, uh, because she's so unusual for a female, um, character in that she is, um, you know, she, she's married to these five men. Uh, she is the subject of both all and, um, you know, disrespect. So she's like this very polarizing figure that has indifferent, um, times in south Asian history held different positions culturally. So, you know, at some points she's sort of vilified as a whore. And at some point she is sort of venerated as a, as a sort of sacrificial lamb.
Speaker 4 00:13:30 She will. Um, so it's, it's fascinating to me, but also like this, this duality, and that's something that, as you mentioned, I do play with in the chat book, this idea of duality, this idea of split, um, split identities. And, um, I sort of liked the parallel of her dual identities with my dual identity, sort of, you know, um, being raised in U S mostly, but also being thermal and having this background as an immigrant, um, being bisexual. So being able to sort of walk between, uh, gang lesbian communities and also straight communities and, and, and this kind of chameleon aspect of, of dual personality, dual identity. Um, and so that's, that's kind of what drew me to her story. Uh, and I think ultimately she's kind of a tragic figure, which I find really fascinating, um, because I don't think she should be. I think she, you know, she doesn't have a tragic ending. She, she is except for this one, um, instance that happens, she's, she's a very strong figure. She's a very strong, uh, female character in, in the Mahabharata. And the, the fact that she's interpreted as a tragic figure, I think says a lot about our culture and what we value and that we value chastity in women, which I think is really bizarre.
Speaker 3 00:15:02 It's such a powerful story for as brief as it is. And thank you for that description. Do you want to read something from us? I didn't ask you to prepare anything from this story, but, uh, um, while you're looking, uh, I love this. You get what you wish or ask for, but Lord Krishna explains to you drop it, eat dry potty. I'm counting all of these, that in her past life, she asked for a husband with five qualities and since no perfect man exists, she got five husbands. Now I'm a guy, and I laughed at that poor thing. But anyway, what you like here to me from, from part of this, that sort of, if you can, I'm asking a lot of you right at them on the moment that captures what you've been talking about.
Speaker 4 00:15:43 Yeah, I can, I can, um, read a little, little piece of it throughout these spends the first year of her marriage with the oldest brother the second year with the second oldest. And so on this said that everyone will know which son belongs to which father. She is the linchpin of the story. A victim of masculine sexuality, like seed the Ramayana and narrative revolves around her. But unlike SEPA, no parents today named their daughters stroke with the seed, the, the Virgin, and drove to the whore. The questions are simple, but no one asks them. No one wants answers. No one even wants the questions. The questions are landfills that lean like mountains. I tell my mother I'm bisexual by from the Latin. Do we agree to the Sanskrit V meaning double having to living into, I have bifurcated, my life brown and white, my family, parents, and me, my body masculine and feminine by meaning to throughout the, the, the wife and the whore by meaning coexistence, meaning contradiction, meaning war.
Speaker 3 00:17:00 Thank you. That's, Sindu reading from her collection, dominant genes, a checkbook out of a, from black Warren's press. Uh, let's talk about fathers too, because I'm a father and I have a daughter, and there's a lovely moment. And I'm a sucker for scenes like this, where a father is the least bit kind to his daughter and loving, but he cooks for you. And again, I don't know if this is you, or if this is a story, but, uh, um, women are in here a lot, but dad shows up to cook for you when I'm going to say you for when the you character, uh, is in trouble. And it's sweet. Um, where does, where does your father come into this word of men come into in your life and in your culture?
Speaker 4 00:17:44 I think I have a very unusual relationship with, um, men and masculinity. Then, you know what my culture prescribes, because regardless of the fact that, you know, thumbnail culture was once Metro lineal and meant matriarchal, uh, centuries of colonial rule has really changed that and has made it a very patriarchal culture. Um, but my father has always been sort of the nurturing one and family. Um, my mother's nurturing too, but she's, you know, I, I think, um, you know, she's not naturally drawn to children. She's not like, you know, she's not warm in that way. And, and I'm the same way as, as she is, but my, my father loves kids. He loves cooking. He loves like feeding people and it's, it's just so much a part of him. And he grew up in taking care of all of his younger siblings. He has five younger siblings and he grew up taking care of them.
Speaker 4 00:18:46 And so, um, he's always been a very sort of, uh, almost motherly figure in my life. Um, and, and because of that, you know, I, I write a lot about my mom, but I don't write a lot about my dad at all. Um, mostly because I don't think I have any issues. Like there's nothing to be worked out through the writing. So whenever he does appear, um, it's, it's to, to be a supporting figure, I guess, in my life. Um, and he's always supporting, and he's not somebody to talk a lot about his feelings or about anyone's feelings. Um, he's not that kind of person, he's very, uh, professorial. He's very cerebral. He's always in his head thinking about some project or another, but, um, but he's, he's always been there. He notices and he, uh, shows his care in, in these ways like cooking, um, and, and making sure that, uh, that I'm taking care of in, in, um, in, in the ways of like, you know, being fed and being nurtured and being warm and being closed and being sheltered like in those ways. Um, and I've always really appreciated that
Speaker 3 00:19:58 That's beautiful. Um, before we run out of time, I want to let our listeners know that they can Google ask J Sindu S I N D U for your lovely website and find some work of yours on the website to read. You have some stories up there, which is nice of you to do as a writer. Um, and I want to make sure that people can find out how to get dominant genes, Chatbooks aren't. Um, these would be the kinds of things in cool, independent bookstores when they come back. Um, you'd find in a certain section, but, um, how can people find dominant genes?
Speaker 4 00:20:31 You can find all of the links to buy it on my website, SJ sindu.com no age. Cindy is like the Indian way to spell it is with an age. I don't have an age in my mood. So just putting that out there.
Speaker 3 00:20:45 Perfect. The pandemic shows up in this book, which tells us that it's been going on far too long when writers can write something and have it published and get out. And we're still in the damn thing. So, uh, how has the pandemic shaped your work? How has that affected you as a writer, as sitting in that lovely room of yours, maybe you're teaching from that room. W how has it shaped?
Speaker 4 00:21:06 I mean, I've been basically living in online life since March of 2020. I've been teaching online. I've been doing everything online. Um, it's, it's been harder to write in the Pantone. Like, honestly, it's, it's sort of, uh, without the input and stimulus of having a social life and being out in the world and being able to observe people is really hard to produce. Um, I have been, you know, sort of slogging along, but, um, but, but, um, I'm so excited to see the light at the end of the tunnel and be able to observe people again and, and be able to write as a scribble things down on my, in my notebook and be able to use it later when I'm out in public.
Speaker 3 00:21:50 How about as a teacher?
Speaker 4 00:21:53 Oh, uh, it's teaching online. I for it, is this quite awful? Um, it, it, it does offer a lot of accessibility of the material, um, for people who, who might not fit naturally into our regular education system. Right. But, um, it does, I think it tires students out to always be on a screen. Um, there's there are students I've had for now two years that I've only known through a screen, um, that, that we are about to go back in person and I'm very excited to actually meet them in person. Wow.
Speaker 3 00:22:28 Great. We're speaking with SJ. Sindu author of dominant genes, other Chatbooks. I believe these are top books of poems and novels, very successful novels, um, which are not on my list by the way. Um, Sindu. How about another reading before I get the high sign from Josh over here? What are you gonna read for?
Speaker 4 00:22:48 I will read, uh, this Palm called gods in the surf. I envy my American city friends. They're impractical swimsuits made to be seen, not touched by sea, unable to stand and weak Florida. Sir, I was born by the ocean and island child, the core of me saltwater and seagulls, howling. We Wade into the Gulf. The ocean holds us amniotic fluid shot with jumping mullets, jellyfish, constellations, too small to see warming. They're seeing tendrils into skin waves, spitting, shark, eggs, and tangles of seaweed, pelicans, strafe the water we Gorge on chips, chug shitty beer under a rainbow umbrella. And I city friends tell stories, innocent childhood beach trips, Florida vacations, coconut sunscreen, back home. People saw God's in the Sur water, limbs and hair made of dirty foam. Fishermen went out to sea, came back nets full of prawns to bombed out homes. Children tried to hide in the sand evading military planes only to shatter on landmines. I never saw visions in the waves, but I knew a boat with no motor and no lights could take me across the lagoon at night. And if I heard a helicopter, I should sink my body into the ocean and trust it to hold me.
Speaker 3 00:24:19 Thank you. That's as Jay Sindu reading, God's in the surf from our new collection dominant genes. We're going to wrap up here and have you tell us what you're working on next before we let you go.
Speaker 4 00:24:29 Awesome. I have two graphic novels coming out. Um, one, one next year called and another one called tall water in 2024. Yeah, I'm working on my third, uh, literary novel called war child about immigrants living in Toronto.
Speaker 3 00:24:46 Well, we hope to see them here and have you back. That sounds very exciting. Pleasure to have you this evening.
Speaker 4 00:24:52 Thank you so much for having
Speaker 3 00:24:53 Me. You're very welcome SJ. Sindu author of dominant genes. Thank you for being with us. And now this
Speaker 5 00:26:59 Born from humble beginnings. Ron Peterson emerged with a PhD in physics to play a role in many important scientific discoveries and became into key executive in Honeywell. One of America's largest corporations along the way he worked with Nobel prize winners, testy, bosses, altruists and people hanging on the edge of society, learning from each of them. And the introvert learns to fly is an often humorous memoir chock full of life lesson from us all on. Thanks for joining me on right on radio.
Speaker 6 00:27:28 Uh, thanks a lot, Joe. Josh, this is, I appreciate the opportunity
Speaker 5 00:27:32 While reading an integral as a fly, you mentioned that your father recommended you go to barber school. If the whole science thing doesn't work out. Did he ever change his mind about what he said to you?
Speaker 6 00:27:44 I think so. He died in 1982 and I'd been a scientist. And, uh, actually I got promoted a couple of times by then. So I think he had given up on the idea. Also, it would have been a horrible idea because that was just about when the people stopped cutting their hair. Um, back when I started going to school, um, there was a lot of, that was sort of a hippie era and, uh, I probably would have starved to death trying to follow this advice.
Speaker 5 00:28:15 Did you ever contemplate a hippie lifestyle at all?
Speaker 6 00:28:18 I missed that, maybe I was just too, too busy. It was kind of a, I mean, I tended to agree with the politics of it all, but it was, you know, and I didn't really like the idea of the war very much, but it was, um, I wasn't gonna wear flowers in my hair and go off. And, and it was, I think in the book, you probably read the part where I was in the basement laboratories doing my experiments while, while there were riots outside of the university of Illinois. And, uh, and they had, um, curfew. So I ended up sleeping on an air mattress underneath my desk, um, probably for weeks on end. So I didn't have to violate any, um, any of the, you know, cause I would have had to walk about eight or eight blocks home and there's a lot of police out there. It was, it could have been dangerous. So mostly I was just trying to get things done. It's kind of been true my whole life. Just, you know, do as much useful stuff as you can in the time you've got,
Speaker 5 00:29:26 You'll talk about the book too, how it superpower of yours that has maybe sometimes been both an advantage and disadvantages that you can come extremely focused on a subject matter where you can kind of lose track of reality around you. Is that partially, we think was a symptom of that.
Speaker 6 00:29:42 Oh, for sure. I mean, I was so dedicated to getting a PhD, never since, uh, some kids in high school said that no one from our high school ever got a PhD and it was sort of like, it became a must. I think it's also why I'm able to write books because most normal people would say, I'm not going to spend a year and a half writing something, um, which may or may not be even useful. And uh, but when I get on a project, I kind of liked to me, it is a big advantage to be able to focus like that till I learn things. And, but it also means people around me are wondering what I'm, what I'm up to. You know,
Speaker 5 00:30:22 You told me recently you had an interest in biochemistry and genetics while reading the Codebreaker by Walter Isaacson. What led you to your interest in becoming a scientist?
Speaker 6 00:30:32 Well, I mean, that's, uh, an evolutionary process. I, I think when I was in grade school, I learned that I was really pretty good in math father, put me on display whenever anybody came over. Um, and then I did some things which surprised teachers. And I think when I hit the eighth grade, when I finally was in a school where there all the rich schools kind of came together at middle school, um, I got the highest score on a math test and it was like, what? Maybe I am good at this. So that was part of it. And then I started building a telescope and I got some teachers who really encouraged me, um, way beyond, you know, what teachers are supposed to do. I think we're in ninth grade, we had to say what we wanted to be. And I put down teacher engineer or a scientist, and then I studied, see which ones made the most money and things like that.
Speaker 6 00:31:27 And so I, by the time I was in high school, I either wanted to be a world-class high jumper or a scientist. So somewhere along the line, that decision was kind of made, you know, what, whether that was plausible. I know with my father saying, don't, this can't work. Uh, he had never heard of somebody in the family being a scientist. So it was, you know, it's, it's been, uh, kind of, uh, a challenge and an adventure the whole time going to college and graduate school. I didn't really have any, um, any, uh, tutors or people who are examples for me to follow. It was like everything was, was an adventure. Everything was a discovery, which I kind of liked, but it also meant it was,
Speaker 5 00:32:18 I think it's permission to, to, and take risks where otherwise you had examples before you have to pay us off your decision-making, you will not do otherwise. So I definitely got that outside of science. What other professions did you ever think about pursuing
Speaker 6 00:32:32 The teacher was certainly a natural. I, I love doing that when I was in graduate school. Um, and I could, I suppose, becoming a professor and being research and teaching would have been not ideal, but, um, but yeah, I really liked teaching people. Yeah. That's why I'm teaching my grandchildren now.
Speaker 5 00:32:56 Well, I teach. And do you like, is it just connecting with people about subject matter that you share common interest in?
Speaker 6 00:33:02 Yeah, I think so. Um, I think it's, it's like when I discover something, I want to tell other people, I don't know if it's because I want them to know that I know it or, or what, but, um, I think if in the book you see, I mean, it had tons of fun in graduate school. I literally tried to make sure all the class, uh, passed the tests and I used to throw a liquid air on the class if they seem to be dozing off just to wake them up. And you can be very creative as a teacher that would have that would've worked out fine too.
Speaker 5 00:33:35 I like this anecdote you share in the book about, there was a young woman who, um, I believe you, your focus was for kids. People are to become nurses or doctors. And she said, she'd never gotten less than an a in her life. And she was struggling in your class and then you you're nice enough to talk with their come outside class and more like, just give her emotional support, I think, and to come back in and have confidence in her abilities.
Speaker 6 00:33:59 Yeah. Yeah. There was a, there was a gal who, who got to see that she had never, and so she ran out of the class crying and, uh, and for awhile, I didn't know what to do. It's like, should I just let her go or whatever? Eventually I just told the class to hang in there. And I went out and sat on a bench and talked to her for a while. It, I mean, for me that, that those classes were sort of a one-on-one thing because I was tutoring almost everybody and you're right. They were all pre-med or pre-nursing. Um, and that class was set up to screen out the people who didn't deserve that. And so they all knew that that was a class you had to pass. And I tried to teach it in a way so that they can all pass the tests, you know, and make it as fun as possible
Speaker 5 00:34:46 Or some of your heroes in science.
Speaker 6 00:34:49 Well, I've always tried to have a heroes list and some people drop in and out. And those two suggested Heisenberg. I was trying to, I had seen a movie where the idea was that he actually slowed down the Nat Nazi pro program to develop an atomic bomb and he's came across as sort of a hero and I would have added him to my list, but there's also a lot of people who say that wasn't quite true in that. Uh, and he didn't deserve the credit that he just goofed up and slowed it down by making errors. But, um, but yeah, I mean, I can't remember who I put on my list. Uh, John Bardeen who was a double Nobel prize winner. He was on my, my, my advisory committee for graduate school, uh, held in a lot of esteem. He had helped invent the transistor.
Speaker 6 00:35:37 And then he developed a theory for super fluidity about a year after I got to, um, got the Nobel prize about a year after I got to, uh, to Illinois. And I actually spent a couple hours with him talking about projects and, and research that he co-authored with with us and the early, the whole thing. He was such a quiet and, and I mean, he, he was the kind of person anybody could come and talk to for an hour, even a first-year graduates, graduate student. The other extreme is of course, uh, Richard Fineman, who was, you know, like the definition of charisma. And I think I mentioned to you, when he would walk into a room, he couldn't just walk into a room. As soon as he opened the door, you knew he was coming because he's waving his arms and he's shouting at some imaginary friend. And that's the way he taught, you know, the classes that they did, they were just totally engaging. And I guess it shows that you can, you can have different personalities and be a scientist, which is good to know
Speaker 5 00:36:47 You got into Caltech and you had the opportunity to take graduate course with Feinman on quantum electrodynamics. And in the book, you said you had a confrontation with him. And I was wondering if you could talk about that. It was an issue of your great, I believe you asked to switch it to a pass-fail, is that correct?
Speaker 6 00:37:04 And then that quiet, he was, um, the actual way it happened was that there's this long line of students on the final day that you could drop the class. And I was at the end of this line and all these people were chemistry students and, um, different classes, different majors. And they kept, as they came up to him, he kept saying, no, I'm not going to sign your, a drop slip. Um, uh, be brave young man is what he kept repeating. And finally I got there and as a physics major, I thought, yikes, I'm in real trouble. And basically I just said, Hey, I'm taking three other physics courses. I'm working for this professor on the side. And I just can't do your course justice. And he said, oh, okay. And so he signed the drop card for me, which was unfortunate because he did make it a pass fail class the next Monday. And I ended up going to all the classes anyway. So I could've gotten a pass. He was kind of a frightening person to walk right up and talk to. I mean, I, I see windows said that, but, um, but he's like regarded as one of the, you know, the 10 best scientists of the 20th century. I think,
Speaker 5 00:38:14 Uh, I was Ron, I was shocked. You got into a fight with someone in grad school.
Speaker 6 00:38:20 Well, there are times when I can be stubborn and that there is a chair, a big, easy chair facing a TV in our living room. And that grads were three of us lived down the, in the same house. And this one really big, like to calm a rude Chicago guy. And I've had a couple of confrontations with rude Chicago. And I just want one, was that an airport where, where this guy with a Cadillac kept trying to cut me off as we're going to an exit at, at an airport thing. And I'm driving my 13 year old Cougar with plastic, basically plastic size walls. Cause it rusted out so much. And I just thought you have far more to lose on this than I do. So I just kept edging ahead. And eventually the guy gave up, but the guy in our, my, my, our, our house, uh, where we were staying in grad school, came back, uh, from something. And he saw me sitting in his, what he considered his chair right in front of the TV. And he tried to drag me out of there and I was resisting. And we, uh, we got into a pushing match and broke a lamp and saw the face, but it didn't get into, you know, actually punching or anything.
Speaker 5 00:39:43 You refer to yourself as an odd vice-president of one of the largest corporations in the us besides being a self-made engine for what made you pick peculiar color as a vice president of Honeywell. And I was talking about that, but I also want to know in comparison to yourself, what were the other personalities like among the executives?
Speaker 6 00:40:05 Well, as you can imagine, most vice presidents tend to be very outgoing. Um, there's a reason they got, uh, to their positions when a couple of occasions come to mind when we would have parties with all the general managers, um, there at the beginning, there were only three of us who, who had spouses who were still working. Um, and for Mariana, Miriam, and I, that was, seemed like a normal thing to do, but out of the 80 VPs or something that were there, there was only three of us and including five women whose husbands had stopped working, you know, so it was kind of like, this is our job is to, to do this. And eventually those two other people who are also from different research centers, also their spouses quit. So Miriam and I became the only one. So that makes us a bit odd fact that I respected Miriam enough to know that her job as a teacher, I know she's a high school.
Speaker 6 00:41:08 Spanish teacher was as important for our family as, as my job, the other, um, the other time was once we were at a, a meeting and they went around the room with a bunch of general managers and asked, what would you do if we suddenly gave you a hundred thousand dollars? And in that room, every single person named something that they would buy. And when they got to me, I said, I just put it in the bank. And everybody kind of gave me a strange look like what? That's not why we're here. We're here to make so much money that we can spend it. And yeah, I mean, also when we'd go on trips to India or places like that, everybody else or Japan, they had to come back with a whole string of pearls. Um, you know, that two or $3,000 they had to be willing. It was almost like a competition to see who could spend the most. And that was not, uh, it just wasn't a priority for me. So that's kind of, that's the way I'm thinking. I'm a little bit odd. I mean, all the way through my career, I thought that the only way I would get ahead was if I did things which were remarkable, I had to get more business. I had to, uh, solve more problems. I had to do better research and it wasn't, I didn't actually compete to get ahead. It was more like I had to prove that before, before there was an opening,
Speaker 5 00:42:35 I want your, your video clip from the context conference. And at the very end, I don't remember what the gentleman's name is. I don't think they said in the video, but you told him, I guess he shared a story of how you told him one point, you wake up every morning and wonder how I'm going to impact the world. And I came across a quote actually from Thomas Jefferson saying that he saw himself as someone who's more interested in the dreams of the future than history of the past. And reminded me of you. I was curious if you saw yourself in that way.
Speaker 6 00:43:06 Uh, yeah, that's probably the case. I mean, it was a bit of an overstatement when he said that I woke up every morning thinking my only job was to change the world because I mean, but to be honest, that that was a consideration when I decided to become a scientist, because at, actually in high school, I was very, I'm still kind of introverted. And it was like, okay, how, how can I have a real impact on the world? It's not going to be by becoming a politician. Or, and so the only thing that made sense to me was I knew that scientists, if they're successful, can invent something or come up with an idea which, which once it's, once the idea happens, um, the world is changed, you know, it's, um, it, it's a way to change the world without having to brag about it.
Speaker 6 00:44:08 You just do it, you make something happen. Um, and so, yeah, that is, that is kind of my focus, clearly my writing about the future all the time. And I keep, if you go to my website, the only thing on there is think that every single, uh, every single email I send out about my businesses, it says, okay, here's the news from the future. It's just the way I think. I mean, that's, that's my thing. It's, um, I mean, and the other problem is that I don't have a great memory. I never could have been a doctor or a lawyer because just too much memorization. It's just, those are things that, which are backward looking and they require too much, remember remembering too many things. Okay.
Speaker 5 00:45:01 Okay. I want this sparks a question for me. So I'm curious, are you, how do you describe your thought process? Are you, if you were to examine your own thought process as it is happening, is it holistic? Do you feel like you're using your, all your brain to arrive a one point that is a synthesis of everything you like, almost like you, you realize the answer, I guess, in a way, is that how you would visualize or kind of explain? So how you think
Speaker 6 00:45:29 It's interesting. You should say that. Cause it's like, when you, if you were to talk about how I wrote the book, my in the novel it's, so where do ideas come from? It's um, I think you're right. It's kind of holistic, but when I was writing the book, I would go out for long walks and with a general question of something about the next chapter and, and then ideas would pop in. It happens a lot in the morning when I wake up or when I'm taking a shower or something, I'll get an idea. I think it's all my subconscious is coming up with, especially when it came to writing a book about a science fiction novel, you have to have a way of pulling things out. Um, you can also learn from reading other people's stuff and, um, and then extrapolating that. And that's what I did. I would just jump on an idea and, and figure out how to make it exciting. Um, I don't know if I'm answering your question, but it's, I don't really know where my ideas come from. All of it.
Speaker 5 00:46:41 No, I think you give you a correct response. I, I think a lot of people that is the case, so it's a point where you're, you're not really having fixed or focus attention on anything. So you can just let your mind wander right now. So you were called a futurist of Honeywell, but I know you're also called Dr. Kwak. I was wondering if you talk about where that, where that title came from.
Speaker 6 00:47:02 Oh, that's a good one incident. My Twitter handle is quacky 2000, by the way.
Speaker 6 00:47:12 So it's something that stuck with me. I think, um, I used to visit San Francisco a lot with my supervisor, Henry Mar, and we would always go to Chinatown. Um, we'd eat out the restaurants after, um, a couple of these occasions. We would be going there quite often and, or to Monterey or whatever. And he convinced me, I had to bring back a frozen doc and I really liked doc because I had tried it. And so, uh, so I always would have a frozen duck in my briefcase or carrying that back. At one time, I got back into the Honeywell building. There was this long, long hallway, maybe two blocks long, and one of the buildings and I'm walking in there. And I came across a few people from our group, um, that, that knew me. And I pull out the docket and said, do you want to see my duck? Which was kind of random. But after that, I've been, I was known as Dr. Quack. And it sort of was fun because, so I started putting little ducks and, and things in my office. And when I got promoted to director or manager, there was a giant cake, um, one for 200 people, cause it was a big party. And there was a picture of Donald duck on there saying, congratulations, Dr. Kwak. So it kind of stuck after that.
Speaker 5 00:48:41 I think my last question for you is kind of a tough one. You mentioned the difficulty of accepting your son-in-law's decision to become Catholic due to is the code you hear it's long history and clarity about its positions. How did you, Ron reconcile your faith with your backgrounds? A scientist?
Speaker 6 00:49:01 Yeah, I remember in the book, I, I, I kind of waited till the end of the book because it seems like a question that as a scientist that I had to, uh, at least address in the book, um, when I was at Caltech that was kind of atheist central for universities, it was like, that was the accepted. The point of view was that there, you know, believing in any sort of God was a mistake. Um, it was, um, let me do a slight aside here. I think that one thing that's interesting is I think that their human ability to see things, which aren't, there is one of our greatest strengths and weaknesses. It's kind of like my need to work too long on things. But when I work with my grandchildren, I point out that, okay, you can't actually see an Adam, you can't see an electron, but those things are there.
Speaker 6 00:50:02 And I like, and I go through and try to show them how it was proved that they were really there through experiments. But the point is that being able to see things in beyond your telescopes, that aren't visible to the human eye is one of the greatest strengths that humans have. On the other hand, it's cause causes people to believe in all sorts of crazy things like not getting vaccinated now and other things, which, because everybody has the ability to, to dream and to see things beyond where they are. And we kind of say, that's okay to be able to do that. So I tend to think that the scientific method is needed. So there's a reason why you can believe in something which you can't see, but, um, it's sort of the central conundrum on, on religion or non-religion. And I tried to address it in the book by just saying, um, that I didn't really have a good answer, that I understood the arguments of my roommates and friends, uh, tons of Jewish friends and at Caltech. And there's, there's a lot of different points of view. Um, and I think I eventually said in the book, Hey, I could argue that there is a God, and I'd done that at our church. Um, and given the seven different reasons why I think that's likely, and that I could also argue with the other seven reasons why, um, that's probably not correct. And I could argue with myself on these things. So I came down in the book by just saying, Hey, I'm agnostic.
Speaker 1 00:51:52 You are listening to right on radio on KFI KFA 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected], I'm savvy.
Speaker 2 00:52:02 And I'm Josh. I'd like to thank our special guest tonight. S J Sindu and Ronald E. Peterson. Plus our listeners without your support and donations KPI would not be possible. We find more news and info about right on radio at dot org slash right on radio. Now stay tuned to Minnesota.
