Speaker 1 00:00:33 You are listening to Right On Radio, on K AAI 90.3 FM and streaming Live on the
[email protected]. I'm Josh Weber. On tonight's program I talk with Carol Ds at the top of the hour about her latest young adult novel, The Takeover Friend. On the second day of ninth grade, introverted France meets Sonya, a wildly funny newcomer from France. And the girls form a fast friendship, but respect to family crisis, disease crises begin to escalate. Intentions come to a head. When Sonya re temporarily moves in with Francis's family, it forces each friend to decide how close is too close, both funny and poignant. The Takeover friend is a smart page turner that focuses on the importance of finding your own voice in relationships.
Speaker 2 00:01:17 Then in the last part of the hour, Liz Olds chats with Christine Wells about her upcoming novel, One Woman's War, A novel of the Real Miss Money Penny. One of BookBub's best historical fiction books of fall. It's the story of a World War II British naval intelligence officer who served as the real life inspiration for the James Bond character, Miss Money Penny, whose international covert operation is put in jeopardy when a volatile socialite and Austrian double agent threatens to expose the mission to German high command. All of this and more so say tuned to write on radio.
Speaker 1 00:02:19 Hello? Carol, can you hear me?
Speaker 3 00:02:22 Yes, can you
Speaker 1 00:02:22 Hear me? Yes, I can. One second. All right. Hi Carol. How are you?
Speaker 3 00:02:30 I'm fine. Thanks for having me on tonight.
Speaker 1 00:02:32 Oh, it's great to have you on the show. Do you have your reading ready?
Speaker 3 00:02:36 I do.
Speaker 1 00:02:36 All right. Why don't you go ahead.
Speaker 3 00:02:40 Can I set it up a little bit or should I just go ahead and read? Why
Speaker 1 00:02:43 Don't you give, Yeah, why don't you preface it? Yeah. Talk a little bit about what you're going to read.
Speaker 3 00:02:47 Okay. So this is uh, a chapter that is about a third of the way into the book, and Sonya and Francis have become best friends. Sonya is away for the holidays, coming back to spend New Year's Eve with Francis's family. And Francis' father, who suffers from bipolar disorder, is beginning to have a, He's in a manic phase and it's beginning to impact the family. So this is Christmas Eve. On Christmas Eve, we always invited mom's cousins, JJ and Kirsten and their six year old son leave who adored will they dressed alike turtlenecks, hand knit sweaters, khakis and mes. JJ was 10 years younger than mom, but he looked just like her. Tall, blonde, blue eyed. Kirsten was tiny with hair. The color of closed pins and a long face. They had both become religious after they met in treatment years before. And now they were both counselors for drug addicted teenagers.
Speaker 3 00:03:59 At one point, Kirsten was describing the opioid problem in Hinkley where they lived, and our north of Minneapolis. We see a lot more burglaries now and it's mostly drug related. People are desperate. She said Leaf was a small boy with wide ears, gray eyes, and short cropped blonde hair. As his mother talked, he unconsciously lowered his hand to his crotch. Do you need to use the bathroom? Kirsten asked him. Leaf shook his head, but he kept scratching. Kirsten grew stern. Then leave your little man alone. That's his penis. Dad said, Leave burst into giggles. You're not supposed to use that word penis. Dad looked at Kirsten. Is there something in the Bible against using the word penis? I think not. He turned back to leave. I use penis all the time. In fact, dad grin. It's a wonderful penis Christmas, isn't it? Ally blared at mom.
Speaker 3 00:05:01 Why do you let him do this? What dad? Lefted start a penis conversation. Kirsten reached over and put her hand on Leaf's arm. Uncle William is just being silly. Silly penis me. Dad whispered to leave penis. Uncle William leaf giggled uncontrollably, penis presence, Penis, napkins, penis. Everything I left will left. Even JJ smiled. Kirsten mom and Allie glared it. Dad. Very soon, Kirsten, JJ and Lee left and we all helped. Mom cleared and stacked the dishes in the dishwasher. Dad went outside to walk the dogs. No one said a word until mom held a dish towel to her face. Go upstairs, please. All of you. She didn't want us to see her crying. Allie hugged her until mom gently pushed her back. Go, I need to talk to your father when he comes inside. I went upstairs and got into bed. We were a different family now.
Speaker 3 00:06:10 We listened harder, stared harder, but spoke our truth, cel less. I wondered if we'd always been this way. So separate or now that I was older, I was seeing the truth of my family for the first time. Pieces instead of a hole in my mind. I tried to draw a line around us. I tried to hold us all inside the line, but more and more I felt the line had been broken. And instead of a circle, we were dots scattered separately. I heard a scratch on my door. And when I opened it, then he jumped on my bed. I lay awake feeling his breath on my ankle. I wondered if he could smell the future, if he knew why. The silences inside our family had turned so heavy on Christmas day. Mom wasn't speaking to dad. Usually we'd go ice skating on Lake of the aisles, all of us together.
Speaker 3 00:07:07 But this year it didn't feel like a holiday. It didn't feel like anything special. We opened gifts and drank coffee, nibbling the cranberry orange coffee cake. Mom had baked. Afterward, we thanked each other and disappeared into our separate rooms. I stayed in my room much of the day waiting for Sonya to call, and when she did, I blurted. You sent a card to Gravy and signed my name. I Jack Gravy as the boy she has a crush on. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Life doesn't just happen. Soya said, You've got to make it happen. And you didn't tell me that my dad gave you a book. I told her I asked to borrow it and he gave it to me instead. What's the big deal? No big deal. The truth was, I missed her too much to argue. She told me Aunt Tessa is all over this dentist, Robert Shackle. She is the worst taste in men. His teeth matches tennis shoes too white. You know, like Mr. Elsewhere, our principal. I said, Those are fo teeth. Sonya said way too big for his mouth. He can barely get his lips over. I think he bought them from a horse breeder. Betty takes them out at night and puts them in a glass of bleach. A bucket, you mean? She laughed. I lay back laughing. Never under estimate. Laughter.
Speaker 1 00:08:32 Very good. That was Carol Dies reading from her new young adult novel. The Takeover Friend Dies, was published three previous young adult books, including two novels. Best Friends Tell The Best Lies The Queen Soprano, as well as a collection of short stories. Talk to me. And a collection of short stories for adults that we talked about on Right. A radio. This distance we called Love. She's a recipient of the Judy Bloom Award, as well as a recipient of Minnesota and Wisconsin state artist fellowships. She has taught writing to all ages at universities, colleges, and public schools in Colorado, Florida, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. Carol, welcome back to Right on Radio.
Speaker 3 00:09:09 Thank you. It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 00:09:11 This book, it opens with a, a sweet interchange between the characters, Francis and Sonya. You reveal that Francis is a weirdo magnet, and I like this because it's something that I can relate to and I've had experiences in my own life, and it's a small detail that as a reader we can extrapolate from this how this person's gonna act in the book. My first question is a two-parter. When you drew up these characters in your mind, did parts of the personality manifest then? Was this something that you discovered during the writing process?
Speaker 3 00:09:45 Francis is very much like my adolescent self. So I be, I I started this book wanting to write about a friendship that gets very enmeshed because I think it happens often during adolescence. It can happen anytime in our lives. But I think young people want so much to cross boundaries and get close, and they don't understand the idea of having healthy boundaries. In fact, they equate no boundaries with really a close friendship <laugh>. So I wanted to write about a friendship at that age that gets so close, it they sort of suffocate each other in a way that it's very hard for them to grow separately. And Francis came first, and Sonya arrived very quickly. I can't really remember, uh, the seeds of Sonya, except I felt like I have known a Sonya or two in my life.
Speaker 1 00:10:50 So my second part to that question was ask you who you saw yourself in. So that answers that. But it was funny for me cuz I initially, I responded to Francis and I can see where the weirdness of people drawn to her, and she comes across very open and a very, like a natural empath. But however, then we go into Sonya and she gives these gruesome details, I think in the first chapter of her head exploding her classes be intact. And it's like, well, that's something I think a ninth grade version myself would probably say. So I <laugh> that's a little too much for the public to know about me, but I, I fell in love with her character right away. So I, How much fun was it to come up with Sonya's character and to write her pieces in the book?
Speaker 3 00:11:28 Sonya was easy for me. I just, um, I have, I just, I feel that I have always attracted people who are larger than life in a way into my life. And maybe it's because they do represent some part of me that I find harder to access. Sonya is brave. She's brilliant, she's funny. She's not afraid to say exactly what's on her mind. She doesn't overthink anything. And at least at the beginning, I think as the story goes, a lot of that outward, um, a electricity in her personality is also bravado that covers up a lot of loneliness and a very chaotic home life. And so that gradually comes to this as, as friends get closer, those layers come off. And Sonya's bravado and kind of, um, courageous spirit, I would say begins to, um, dissipate a little as she becomes more vulnerable. And Francis on the other hand, begins to find her voice and becomes stronger. And I really wanted that transformation in both of them.
Speaker 1 00:12:52 No, it's, I totally agree. She's Sony, she's probing. She's inquisitive. Yet we all, as a reader, we see beneath her charming minish exterior. She's a troubled, vulnerable person. And I reveal that I think incrementally throughout the book. I was going through the book and lo and behold, there's a character in this book whose name is Josh. He's Gki, he's geeky. He's glad to help people. And as a tendency to, Drake got a joke way past expiration date. What the hell, Carol, were you, were you stocking what's
Speaker 3 00:13:22 Going on? Funny? Oh, I love Josh.
Speaker 1 00:13:25 Josh is, I like Josh shoe for obvious reasons, but Josh,
Speaker 3 00:13:30 Josh has a lot of inner strength and perception, and he finally forces Francis to face some of her, you know, her inabilities to be frank with herself. So I think Josh is one of those, those, uh, late bloomers. He's like, I think it comes out in the book where, uh, Francis's mother adores Josh <laugh>. And, um, one of the things I love is that, you know, he was a friend. He wasn't somebody, she has a crush on, an older boy, her brother's best friend, but Josh really adores her and is a truly good friend. And I in my life have fallen in love with a good friend. And I wanted that to be the story that, you know, their friendship does evolve into a deeper romantic relationship.
Speaker 1 00:14:34 In chapter three, we're introduced to Ms. River, who takes a firm, uh, uh, she or approached towards the destruction of, or she, she doesn't like people who use different terms within the English language improperly, like with likes and you knows and whatevers and ya. As a teacher of reading and writing yourself, are you strict on using proper grammar in conversation with your students?
Speaker 3 00:14:59 No.
Speaker 1 00:14:59 No.
Speaker 3 00:15:00 I think there are teacher teachers who are still, this is a very delicate question because we have such diverse student bodies. And I think what I have made some shifts in my teaching, which is when you have people many, I have many students, or I used to, I actually don't teach anymore, but when I did teach, um, I had students for whom English was a second language and I couldn't expect them because I've lived in other countries. I know how hard it is to understand the verb tenses and all of that. And people come from different educational backgrounds and different educational opportunities. So in a lot of, in my composition courses, I did teach a very functional grammar. I did insist on, you know, I, I didn't want slang in writing, but in creative writing classes, I wanna hear those voices. And so I really wanted students to feel free to write in their own voices.
Speaker 3 00:16:13 And often that meant not writing in our standard English grammar. Um, and there's a lot of debates over whether we should even be teaching standard English grammar. But I did have, um, and my, my daughter I remember in high school had a teacher who was a real stickler on it, and she happened to be Indian as Miss Reva is, um, Indian American. And, um, but also came from Europe. So maybe subconsciously I was basing this teacher in her, She was a fantastic teacher and she was, she insisted on proper grammar and theory, and she was, she really drove them and they learned a lot.
Speaker 1 00:16:58 What I especially liked about your handling of Sony and Francis was despite their age, they're both intelligent and you respect the kids in their intelligence, either ninth grade in a way that they can be cogen their reasoning, but insightful about what's happening around them in a way that's appropriate for their age. Did you find this challenging to write, to find that balance?
Speaker 3 00:17:18 No, I didn't because, because I've been in around enough teenagers who kind of blow me away with their knowledge about the world and about, I've known many teenagers who sh who actually had outgrown high school before they got there. I feel a little bit that way about my daughter, and I feel a little bit about that way about Sonya. Francis is excited about high school and all the activities, but Sonya is really ready for a bigger, um, I don't know, a bigger environment. And she's lived all over the world. And so part of it is her insecurity, I think. Um, she wants her big, uh, dreams to be reflected in her surroundings. And, but part of it too is I think there are kids who are v who don't identify with the typical, um, high school clubs and social life. And I wanted to show kids in which I think Sonya and Francis do, where they transform the homecoming float into a poetry mobile. And that enables them to sort of create their own visibility at the school and to, to kind of find a new identity for themselves.
Speaker 1 00:18:48 I think part of their wisdom is, is thrust upon these kids due to their familial situations. Did you do any research on children who grew up in, in households with bipolar parents who went through manic episodes?
Speaker 3 00:19:03 I didn't need to do research. Oh boy. I actually lived, my sister, um, who is Nazi, uh, had bipolar disorder and, um, suffered greatly from it. She cycled through mania and depression pretty much her whole life. And, um, part of what really inspired this story, um, originally in the book the father was going to have vascular dementia, but a few years ago, my husband was put on a pain medication and unbeknownst to us it could cause medical mania and medically induced mania. And we didn't know that, and we lived with it for six months and it was like living with somebody I didn't recognize. So I, I don't think he'd mind my saying it because he has no memory of it, which is so typical of medically induced mania. Um, when people go through it, uh, if it's a kind of medical, uh, and this was a pain medicine, so who knew? But, um, when we finally got to the neurologist and he got him off of it within a week, he was back to himself. But it was a very frightening experience. And I felt I could write the father. I loved the father. I think the father is a very likable person. I didn't wanna make him odd or, um, dislikable. I think he's very understanding and a good father, but he does suffer from a mental illness.
Speaker 1 00:20:49 What's interesting about France, France's father, is that he, he sort of fits very well with this, this artist stereotype. He stresses authenticity. He doesn't like group think. He, he's against the idea of branding yourself to gain visibility instead of having real life experiences. On the other hand, you have Sonia who holds this, this opposite approach when it comes to attention. She craves being seen and shamelessly wants to leave her footprint in the world. And what I like is, on one hand you have a character who wants to preserve their own voice by, by isolating themselves at the cost of not getting their talent recognized, and then another who wants recognition to avoid being visible to herself and not be like her mother. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 3 00:21:31 So glad you brought that up, because I think there's so much in young people's lives through social media and, um, through our lives have become so visual and, uh, I think this idea of branding, finding your brand and creating your identity, uh, outwardly instead of cultivating a sense of groundedness insight. There's so much outward looking in teenager's lives today. And, um, I've seen this a lot in my own family and in the students I used to teach. And I think it, it really is creating a lot of young people who, I mean, part of it is they've only grown up with social media mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So the father can remember a time when creativity existed just to be creative and the process was what mattered. And, um, I think there's so much more joy in creativity and in our lives when we're looking inward and developing ourselves inwardly.
Speaker 3 00:22:49 And then, um, and not being, not basing our self-worth and our understanding of ourselves on the images and the brands around us and the way it's outwardly being shown. I'm not being very articulate about that, but I feel this very deeply <laugh>. Um, and the father is wiser and older and he's had that his day in the sun, or he's had his brief moment of fame, but he understands that the writing and the music are what's really important. And I think this reflects how I feel. I mean, just writing this book, I, the la I've had two books in the last two years before that. There was a long span of time and it is a different world now. I trying to get both books out there, uh, trying to, um, enter this social media world, uh, it's very, it's kind of overwhelming and I do think there's so much that it's kind of hard for people to even find an identity within it. So, um, I've had my own experience with it this, these past two years. And, um, I must say it's the writing that gives me joy <laugh> not the not trying to get out there and brand my books and, and, uh, do all of that. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 00:24:20 It does. I think we actually spent an entire hour talking about that. But we are running outta time here and I have a lot more questions for you, but I have one big one and you're gonna have <laugh> maybe gimme a two minute response to this. So, Okay. Something I noticed is recurring theme in this book. I mean, you talk a lot about how language and poetry as a means of trying to find your inner voice, but the one thing that you, this happens a lot in this book though, is this theme of silence. Francis uses silence as a weapon when Sony has offended her. Her mother uses this against her father, Sony even comments at a point to France, that silence can be a way of holding power in a very fitting way. This is how you end the novel. I don't wanna give anything away to the, the listeners, but that's what happens. The character finds a way of extinguishing the light of another person or life. And I want to ask you, was that intentional, this, this way of bringing silence into her life as a way of, I guess speaking in her own way?
Speaker 3 00:25:14 Yes, I do think silence, uh, was important to me because again, there's so much noise in our lives and for young people in particular, their brains are so wired to towards distraction. And one of the things I really loved about Francis, she uses silence as a defense MEChA mechanism to protect her. When she doesn't say things to Sonia, it keeps her in her, it keeps her feelings in her own domain rather than putting them in the domain of the friendship. But it's also for her, she's very thoughtful. She thinks she spends time with her feelings before she voices them. And I, I think that that's wise. I think that's her strength. And, um, at the end I did end it with silence, um, because I think that it's also a sign of being strong not to fill up her life with noise or with a friendship that isn't necessarily giving her what she needs.
Speaker 1 00:26:24 This has been my time talking with Carol DNEs about her new book. The Takeover Friend is published from Fitz Ride Books and I believe it's released today. Is that right, Carol?
Speaker 3 00:26:32 Yes. All right. I thank you for having me on. It's always great to talk with you, Josh.
Speaker 1 00:26:38 Great to talk with you. And then, yeah, so Carol, I think you an event coming up in Majors in Quinn later this week. Where at what
Speaker 3 00:26:43 Else? Yes. On Thursday, a launch party, um, at Majors in Quinn, people have to register and October 12th at Red Balloon and the 20, And I'll be with Gary Eldon Peter, who's a terrific writer, and on the 20th of virtual launch through a, a virtual reading through tattered cover with a teen psychologist who did her dissertation on Teen Friendship. Ooh. And so excited about all three. You can find him on my website, www carol dy.com. Please,
Speaker 1 00:27:18 Everyone look forward to that. Carol, thanks so much again for being on the show.
Speaker 3 00:27:21 Thanks, Josh. Take care.
Speaker 1 00:27:23 And now this Hi Liz.
Speaker 4 00:27:38 Hi, Josh. Are we ready to go
Speaker 1 00:27:40 Here? Yes, you're both ready to go.
Speaker 4 00:27:42 We are speaking with Christine Wells here on Right On Radio. Welcome to Right On Radio, Christine.
Speaker 5 00:27:50 Hi, Liz,
Speaker 4 00:27:52 Great author of One Woman's War, which I believe is coming out next Tuesday. Is that the release date still?
Speaker 5 00:28:00 Yes, that's right.
Speaker 4 00:28:01 That must be very exciting. And I believe it is 10 30 in on Wednesday morning down there, right?
Speaker 5 00:28:10 Yes, yes. Down here in Australia.
Speaker 4 00:28:12 Down there in Australia where it is Spring. And we ended you, uh, why don't you start with the reading that we asked you to prepare.
Speaker 5 00:28:21 Oh, I'd love to, uh, just a little bit of background about the reading it. It's, uh, about when my heroin, Patty Bennett, uh, is working at room 39 of the Admiralty during World War ii. Uh, she is working for Ian Fleming, who turns out later to be the author of the James Bond novels. So, um, hence the, the Title One Woman's War, uh, a novel of the Real Miss Money Penny Commander Fleming leaned over to place on her desk, a 51 item memorandum covered in comments and corrections retyped that Will you Ms. Bennett and bring it in when you're finished? Certainly, sir. Her typing skills have improved markedly since her first day In room 39. She lowered her eyes to the page, then looked up at Fleming, the trout memorandum, Sir, one corner of his mouth lifted, We're going to do a spot of fishing. She watched Fleming saunter into Godfree layer, then lowered her gaze to the document he handed her.
Speaker 5 00:29:28 Fleming possessed a brisk energetic style of prose, direct and to the point. Well, he'd been a journalist at one stage, hadn't he? She seemed to recall her mother mentioning it. Edith had been full of the Flemings and their doings since Patty had taken the job at the admiralty, scanning the memorandum. Patty raised her eyebrows and let out a silent whistle. This was by far the most fascinating piece of business she had come across since her arrival. A list of possible operations, naval intelligence might carry out each more outlandish and daring than the last to deceive, misdirect, sabotage and otherwise confound The Nazis Patty suppressed to snort. Someone had clearly grown up on a strict diet of Kipling and Big's books. Her hand flew to her mouth when she came across one that even Fleming commented was not very nice. The dead body of an airman with pockets full of top secret dispatchers to be dropped off somewhere along the Spanish coast.
Speaker 5 00:30:30 For the Germans to find this idea was one he had filtered directly from fiction. She had read The Millions Hat Mystery by Basl Thompson, so she recognized the highly improbable ruse. Of course, the dispatchers would be falsified, designed to mislead the Germans about troop movements, invasion strategies, and so on. Surely Godrey wouldn't entertain such fan, all plots for an instant. But when she gained admittance to the rear admirals office with the Retyped memorandum, she realized her mistake. Godfrey took the pages she handed him and frowned over them with fierce concentration, a short bark, which she interpreted as laughter escaped him at one point. Which item had he found so amusing? It was hard to tell. They'd all been quite extraordinary. Well, Godfrey slapped the memorandum with the back of his hand. Which of these has legs? What do you think Ms. Bennett had? He decided to tell the unvarnished truth.
Speaker 5 00:31:32 I think they are all completely outlandish. So, ah, he cocked an eyebrow at Fleming. What do you say to that? They are imaginative, certainly said Fleming apparently unperturbed by her challenge. But the more you think about them, the less impossible they appear. Patty had to be impressed in Fleming's position. Many men would've dismissed or belittled her for stating an opinion at all. Much less disagreeing with him. She had to award him points for doing neither. It emboldened her to counter dryly. They seem to me to be possible only between the covers of a novel. Fleming smiled. Well, of course these are all in the order of romantic daydreams, but they contain the germs of very workable plots.
Speaker 4 00:32:19 That was a reading from the book, One Women's War by Christine Wells. Um, I would like to start with you talking in your, uh, bio. You talk about your father, your relationship with your father, and how he would tell you about kings and queens and, and nursery rhymes. And I'm wondering if, if you got a love of history from him and if you would talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 5 00:32:44 Oh, yes, definitely. Uh, in fact, the other day I was asked what my interest in World War II was all about and when had it started. And, uh, when I was about 12, we had a big project to do school, and it was a six month project, and I did mine on the rise and fall of Adolph Hitler. And my father, who, he, he is a keen historian, he studied it at university, but he actually writes books, uh, about cricket and rugby history. Uh, he taught me how to research, uh, and how to use all the different sources and synthesize them all. And, you know, I spent an awful lot of time on this project, and then I lost half a mark for, uh, the appearance of it, <laugh>, because it wasn't pretty enough. But, but it was a great learning experience for me.
Speaker 4 00:33:38 And what brought you to writing books containing specifically strong women characters?
Speaker 5 00:33:46 Uh, ever since I can remember they, they've been the sort of characters I've loved to read about. And, uh, from Queen Elizabeth the first, I had a complete obsession with her for, for a while. And, and then all of the amazing women who were dropped behind enemy lines in World War II and had to really live on their wits in occupied France. Uh, there are just so many women's stories that aren't widely known today. And, uh, it's a real pleasure and privilege to uncover those stories and, and make them more widely known.
Speaker 4 00:34:24 Well, let's talk a little bit about research. I was gonna say that for later, but let's talk about it now since we're on that path. Um, you say that Covid or the Pandemic made research much more difficult for you for this book. Uh, what do you usually, how do you usually do your research and kind of what stopped you in the pandemic?
Speaker 5 00:34:46 Uh, it was really being on the spot because being in Australia, we were, we had to stay here <laugh>. And, uh, and although I've been to England several times, I have not been to Portugal where part of the book is set. Uh, a dear friend or author friend of mine, Madeline Martin, sent me photographs of her trip that she made after I had handed this, handed this book in. Uh, so that was for her book The Librarian Spy, uh, which was very helpful, but it's not like being there. So that's really what stops me with the pandemic. And, you know, there are archives and things that you just cannot get access to online. So yeah, that was a shame.
Speaker 4 00:35:34 Talk about the two characters of, uh, Patty and is it Friel? Is that how you pronounce it?
Speaker 5 00:35:40 Yes. Friel, yeah.
Speaker 4 00:35:41 Patty and Friel, your, uh, uh, structure is to go back and forth between one character and the other very interesting stories, both of them. And I'm curious, uh, why you picked that structure and how the two of them are related to each other.
Speaker 5 00:36:00 Uh, well, the challenge I had with Patty's story, Patty becomes involved in Operation Mince Meet, which I described in, in the excerpt that I read, and the challenge I had with that story. And it was one that the, the filmmakers who recently, uh, made the film of Operation Mi Meet hat as well, is that once they've prepared the body and sent it off, there's no prota, there's no antagonist on the spot in London to make trouble for them. All of the, the action and the conflict happens off stage, as it were from that point on. So I wanted to have somebody on the spot who, uh, could be an antagonist for Patty. And so I, I had read about Friel before because I'd been researching women who were employed as agent provocative for I five in, in the war time. So they would, uh, do all sorts of things.
Speaker 5 00:37:09 But one of the things that Friel did was, was monitor fifth column activity among Arts sympathizers. And she was instrumental in, um, securing the conviction of a, a Russian emigre who was actually passing American, um, in diplomatic information along to the Germans fire Italy. So, uh, she was engaged in this kind of thing. And then you had, she had an affair with Dko Popoff who, uh, is a bit of an inspiration for the real Ja for James Bond. Uh, and so, and he was operating in the Iberian Peninsula around Spain and around where some of the action, where the dead body was found, uh, where that was taking place. And he actually reported back on the Germans reception of this, uh, plot ploy, I suppose. So it all seemed like it might connect. And so I wanted to start off with Friel doing her thing with the fifth column, but then becoming involved in operation in meet a little bit later on because she actually had been, uh, recruited by the Germans first. And that was why British Intelligence was interested in her, because, uh, they wanted her to pass on information misinformation to her German handlers.
Speaker 4 00:38:38 What was Room 39?
Speaker 5 00:38:41 Room 39 is the name of the room at the Admiralty Building where the directorate of Naval Intelligence worked. So Patty was there with seven offices and she had to work for all of them, including Commander Ian Fleming.
Speaker 4 00:39:00 I wanted to ask you about Ian Fleming. Uh, what did he do in the real war? Is this is what you wrote in the book kind of, uh, equal to what he did? Or did he do last or did he be born? What was his role?
Speaker 5 00:39:12 Everything that he does in the book is true. So he was responsible pretty much single handedly for evacuating the British refugees from Bordeaux and France. After the Germans marched into Paris, uh, he organized a lot of private ships to take those passenger, and some of them were quite reluctant because obviously France wasn't actually firmly on, on Britain's side at that point. Uh, and Britain had scuttled the French Navy because they couldn't get a commitment from them to turn it over to them. Uh, so yeah, he did that and then he worked, but that was while he was working as personal assistant to the director of Naval Intelligence. So he was everywhere. He was coordinating operations, liaising between the Admiral Godfrey and the rest of the different committees who were overseeing all of the intelligence operations of the war. Uh, and he ended up forming his own commando group because what he saw was that they didn't have intelligence commandos who could go in quickly to officer the head office of the Germans, wherever that might be, and secure all the documents and the, the, uh, intelligence information that that would be really invaluable. And the Germans had done that on Crete, uh, when they, they just surprised the British and launched this big attack and he saw that that was needed. So he was later went to Canada and he trained, oversaw the training of these commandos. But it's thought that he secretly probably wanted to do all of that sort of work himself. Uh, but because he had so much knowledge in his head, uh, he was too valuable to risk in any kind of combat.
Speaker 4 00:41:19 Um, let's talk a little bit about the James Bond novel since we are talking some about the author. Uh, when did you discover Ian Fleming and James Bond? How old were you and, and, and so on?
Speaker 5 00:41:34 You sound like you know this story because, uh, it is a story. I was seven when I first saw my first James Fond movie. That was Few Eyes Only, so I'm probably dating myself. But, uh, yeah, my father was barrister and he had gone down to work in the high court and he was sitting in Sydney at the time. I live in Brisbane, which is north of there. So mom took me and my brother down to Sydney and had been entertaining us all week while dad was in court. And when he got out, she said, Right, they're yours and, and, uh, you can entertain them. I'm going shopping <laugh> And poor Dad, he was pretty tired, <laugh>. So he took us to James Bond <laugh> and mom was horrified cuz she thought we were going to museums or something, and it turned out to be. But, but I think, you know, I used to go away to my cousin's house, uh, that had a house by the lake and the only books they had were Neville Shoot and, and Ian Fleming James Bond. So I read them all because I was such a book where my, I always ran out of books if I was away from the library for too long. So I read them all then as well. So yeah, it's been a long standing association. <laugh>.
Speaker 4 00:42:57 Yeah, my first James Spa movie was Gold Finger and my dad took me to it at a, at a drive in movie theater. So, um, yes.
Speaker 5 00:43:06 Well, that's a good one.
Speaker 4 00:43:08 Your, uh, your novel, uh, is subtitled in a novel of Real Miss Money Penny. Now, uh, our younger listeners may not be familiar with the books, especially I know the movies are popular, but with the books, and I'm wondering if you could talk about Miss Money Penny, who she, uh, is in the books and I can't remember if she appears in any of the movies or not. So if you would give us a, a story about Miss Money Penny, that would be great.
Speaker 5 00:43:36 Well, Miss Money Penny did appear in several of the movies. Uh, she was actually the private secretary to m uh, in the books who was the head of the, uh, I six, I guess it was the Secret Service. And basically she would not be in it very much. I mean, she just, uh, she would, she would see Bond and flirt with him a bit before he went in to see the Big Man basically. But she might give him a bit of information about the background and so forth. So, uh, she really, these days she's been given a much bigger role as a former operative. There's been a whole new backstory written for her. Uh, and in one of the Bond movies, she actually is tasked with bumping him off and, and, and fails <laugh>. But, but that's not in the books. That's completely a new, new tack that the movies take.
Speaker 4 00:44:42 Uh, talk about your other, uh, books, uh, uh, again, the female, uh, protagonists and the uh, uh, what type periods did they take place? It sounds like you're very interested in World War ii. Did, are some of them before or after talk about your other books?
Speaker 5 00:44:59 Uh, yes. Well, the, the Sisters of the Resistance, uh, is obviously set in, in the resistance in France during World War ii. And that, that was about Catherine Deo, who, uh, is the, was the sister of the famous fashion designer, Christian Dior. Uh, she, it's not actually from her point of view, it's from the point of view of two sisters. She recruits into helping with her resistance network. So in real life, Catherine Dior was a resistance Korea, and she, she was captured and tortured and sent to Robin's book, but she survived and she came back and had a long and happy life growing flowers in the south of France. So that was a lovely ending to a very harsh reality of the time. Uh, so that was an amazing book to write, and there wasn't much information about her. Uh, so that was, I, that's the reason I didn't make her a point of view character because I really wanted to stick to exactly what she had done and not, uh, embellish that too much because I felt that just so much respect for what she'd done.
Speaker 5 00:46:18 Um, it, it, I felt that it was right not to make her the point of view, character of that story. Uh, but, uh, and another one that isn't said in World War II was the wife's tale. Uh, and that's about an 18th century court case, <laugh>. So I used to be a lawyer, uh, many years ago, so I was very interested in this action. It was criminal conversation. So what that was, was, uh, a husband could sue his wife's lover for damages because the wife was his chattel and the lover had damaged the goods. So, uh, being a bit of a feminist, I, I was outraged by this and I discovered so many similar cases to the one that I was actually looking at. And there was a really fascinating one where a writer, Caroline Norton, uh, who was having an affair, she actually did have an affair with Lord Melbourne, who ended up being Queen Victoria's Prime Minister. Uh, and her husband, politically motivated, partly, uh, sued Lord Melbourne for criminal conversation. But not only did he do that, he, he abandoned her and took her children away and, uh, took her royalties from her book because everything she earned and she was the main breadwinner. Everything she earned was his, because he was her husband. So I just found that so outrageous. I had to write a story where the woman won. That's the wife's tale.
Speaker 4 00:48:05 It sounds like the woman wins in your books, that that's part of the, the whole idea. We have been speaking with Christine Wells, author of One Woman's War, A Novel of The Real Miss Money Penny. Um, and, uh, we had just have a few minutes left. Why don't you, uh, let us know what's next? What's on the docket?
Speaker 5 00:48:27 Oh, on the docket, I've just handed in a book that is tentatively titled a bit of a mouthful, the Royal Windsor Orphan. And it is about a girl who grows up at Shepherd's Hotel in Cairo, uh, pre-war. And she discovers or is told that her, she is the illegitimate daughter of Ed with the eighth who ended up advocat abdicating that Thone and becoming the Duke of Windsor and a French Corson who was infamous for doing a very shocking thing. So, uh, that was, that was a little bit of a departure and, uh, it does cover the war years, but it's not about the war. It's, uh, very much a personal story about her discovering who she is.
Speaker 4 00:49:22 Um, well finally, uh, speaking of history, uh, we just recently lost Queen Elizabeth ii and I'm wondering what it factors of having in, in Australia.
Speaker 5 00:49:34 I think I, no matter what you believe about the monarchy and many Australians are Republicans, uh, there's no doubt that she was beloved and respected by all. Uh, it, it, we were all very sad and I still tear up a bit now thinking of it. I, it it's had a big impact, I think. And we had a national day of morning for her, so, um, and actually it's in my state. It's, it's the Queen's birthday holiday on Monday. So, uh, yeah, we, Cause she's very important to us and, uh, and you know, may she rest in peace. She was an amazing, amazing woman.
Speaker 4 00:50:19 I agree. Thank you so much. Thank you. Christine Wells again. One Woman's War is going to be released next Tuesday, October 4th. Uh, is it being released up here in the United States as well as Australia, or can people find
Speaker 5 00:50:33 It up? Yes, that's right. United States first, yes.
Speaker 4 00:50:37 Okay, great. Well, uh, thank you so much. Happy Spring <laugh>, and, uh, we appreciate you being with us son. Right on radio.
Speaker 5 00:50:46 Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 4 00:50:51 My me too. Okay. Take care. Thank you. Bye bye.
Speaker 5 00:50:54 Thank you. Bye.
Speaker 1 00:51:05 You're listening to Right on Radio on Cafe 90.3 FM and streaming live on the
[email protected]. I'm Josh Weber, I like to thank our special guests tonight, Carol Dies, and Christine Wells and all of our listeners. Without your support and donations, k would not be possible. You can find more news in info about right on radio at k.org/right on radio. You listen to all of our, your favorite right on radio episodes on Spotify and Google Podcast, Apple Podcast, and so on. Please stay Atuned Football, Minnesota.
