[00:00:00] Speaker A: Posh and Liz will be talking with Andrea Swenson about her book deeper the life, songs and salvation of Cornbread Harris. Through conversations with Cornbread, Jimmy Jam and many others, Swenson reveals a story of perseverance and unfailing grace, a first hand account of making music in the face of racism and segregation, and a hard won acceptance of the personal sacrifices that are often required when dedicating one's life to making music.
All this and more. So stay tuned to write on radio.
[00:00:56] Speaker B: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to write on radio. I'm Josh Weber, and on this episode, we're joined in studio with Andrea Swenson to discuss her new work, deeper the life, songs and salvation of Cornbread Harris. Swensen chronicles the emotional, epic story of James Cornbread Harris, a self proclaimed blessed dude and one of Minneapolis most influential musicians. Swensen is an author, podcast post and music journalist in Minneapolis. She hosts the official Prince podcast and has written for numerous publications, including NPR music, Pitchfork, the Star Tribune, City Pages, and Minneapolis Public Radio's the Current, where she previously hosted the local show. Her first book, got to be something here, the rise of the Minneapolis Sound, also from the University Press, University of Minnesota Press, excuse me, won a 2018 Minnesota Book award. I, Andrea, welcome to write on radio.
[00:01:51] Speaker C: Thank you, Josh. It's so nice to be here. Welcome and thank you, Liz.
[00:01:56] Speaker D: It's nice to see you again. I've interviewed Andrea before.
Well, let's start at the very, very beginning. How did you meet Cornbread and how did you decide to write this book?
[00:02:07] Speaker C: Well, I met him back in 2017. He came into NPR actually to perform on my show, and I was utterly charmed by him. The second he walked into the studio, he went to the piano and sat down and didn't stop playing the whole time he was there. He didn't stop playing to be interviewed, didn't stop playing to do sound check. You could just see he was in love with this instrument. And the session was absolutely delightful. He wove songs and stories together in this really engaging way. And you could just tell he had spent decades entertaining people at the piano. And I was very entertained by that. And at that point, he was only 90 years old.
So then a few years went by and I stayed in touch with him. I interviewed him again for the station. But then it was really in the thick of the pandemic. I got back in touch with him, and I was also communicating with his son, the producer, Jimmy Jam. And Jimmy had asked me if I knew how to get in touch with cornbread. And he was hoping to pay his dad a visit when he was coming to town. And at that point, I didn't know that much about their relationship, but I said I would have obviously be happy to help them get connected with each other. And then a few days later, Jimmy sent me a text with a picture of him and his father together. And Cornbread was just absolutely beaming. And he said, thank you so much for your help. That was the first time we'd actually spoken to each other in about 35 years.
[00:03:39] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:03:40] Speaker C: And that was just a jaw dropping moment for me that I, you know, I'd found myself in the midst of this reconciliation between two extremely talented musicians from Minneapolis who had been long estranged. And I just thought, wow, what an amazing story. And it really compelled me to reach out to Kornbread and talk to him about, you know, what this experience was like for him. And before too long, I just. I had my mind made up. I need to write a book about this person. He is absolutely fascinating.
[00:04:08] Speaker D: Now, you did many, many, many interviews with him over how many years?
[00:04:12] Speaker C: Three years. Yeah. So we've been meeting actually, every week this whole time. Even after the book was finished, I still go to his house every Tuesday because it's become such a great part of our routine.
[00:04:23] Speaker D: You know, it made me think of Tuesdays with Maury. Tuesdays with cornbread.
[00:04:28] Speaker C: Exactly. Yep.
[00:04:29] Speaker D: Now, it sounds like you just immediately thought he was a totally cool dude.
[00:04:35] Speaker C: Yes. Yeah. He calls himself a blessed dude. That's kind of his catchphrase, but he just has a way about him. He's extremely positive, and he has a very infectious personality, and I think that's why he's been such a great entertainer all of these years. He really connects with people, and he certainly connected with me right away.
[00:04:53] Speaker D: Well, let's talk a little bit about your book. It's got to be.
[00:04:58] Speaker C: Got to be something.
[00:04:59] Speaker D: Got to be something here, right?
Because I know Cornbread is a big part of the Minneapolis sound, and you wrote this book about the Minneapolis sound, so share a little bit about that book.
[00:05:12] Speaker C: Yeah. So that book came out, actually right around the time that I met Cornbread 2017. And I had been working on it for several years and doing a lot of research into the generations of musicians before Prince, who I knew inspired Prince and all of his peers. And they get all the credit for this so called Minneapolis Sound, but I knew they all had musician fathers and teachers and mentors and people that were active, especially in the black music community, rooted in north Minneapolis for decades before, you know, they really put Minneapolis on the map, musically speaking. So Cornbread was someone that I researched during that work. He was a member of the Augie Garcia quintet back in the 1950s, one of the first rock and roll bands to come out of Minnesota, and one of the first rock and roll records to be made in Minnesota. Augie Garcia is often referred to as the godfather of rock and roll. And he was a talented musician as well. He was a Mexican American.
Started out as a traditional acoustic guitar playing musician in the west side of St. Paul. And after the korean war, he came back home and decided to start this rock band. And he ended up meeting Kornbread. Kornbread remembered he was at a bar after work one day waiting for the bus to bring him home. And he met Augie Garcia and his drummer, Johnny Lopez. And they had talked about how they'd just gotten this gig down at the River Road club, and they were going to start this new kind of music. And Kornbread was really influential in that group. He helped them define their sound. Augie would say in interviews that he brought a certain r and b shuffle to the sound that they were doing to really help them, you know, grasp this. What was, at the time a brand new style of music, rock and roll music. So I think, you know, learning more about that just really solidified for me that this is a person that has been so active for so many years in shaping the sound of this place.
[00:07:18] Speaker D: You know, it might be good since we're talking about the Auggie Garcia quintet, to just play tune by that quintet. And Cornbread's got the vocals on this, right?
[00:07:28] Speaker C: Yeah. So this is a cover of going to Chicago. It was released as the b side to their single High Ho Silver, which is credited as being the first rock and roll 45 to come out of Minnesota.
[00:08:04] Speaker E: Going to Chicago. Sorry that I can't take you while I'm going to Chicago sorry that I can't take you.
Cause there's nothing out there that a chick like you can do when you see me going hang your head and cry.
When you see me going hang your head in Crydeh. When you see me come and raise your window high well, hurry, hurry baby, you can't hold on much more.
Hurry, hurry baby, can't hold on much more. Cause every day I love you more than the day before Sadeena.
Yes, it's seven more months we're going on the road, baby, yeah, seven more months going on the road, baby and we ain't come back so don't ask me when, baby, we're going to ride, ride we're going to ride, ride we're going to ride rock we're going to rock and roll rock and roll ooh, baby we're going rock, rock, rock, rock and roll.
[00:10:27] Speaker D: That's fantastic. That's pretty rock and rolly.
[00:10:30] Speaker C: It sure is.
[00:10:31] Speaker D: Was that the pre built Bill Haley and all that?
[00:10:34] Speaker C: Well, I think it's around the same time. Yeah, 1955 is when that came out.
[00:10:39] Speaker D: Around the same time. Now, I understand that along with the book you are coming out with, is it a cd or vinyl?
[00:10:46] Speaker C: It's a vinyl record.
[00:10:48] Speaker D: Vinyl? Yes, indeed. And that's gonna have how many tracks?
[00:10:52] Speaker C: It has eight songs. It's called Cornbread Harris anthology, and it really was inspired by trying to find all of Cornbread's music. It took me quite a while to track it all down. A lot of it is long out of print. And I just really wanted people to have a way to hear his songs as they're learning about his life.
[00:11:09] Speaker D: Yeah, it's hard to find. Find that stuff these days.
[00:11:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I want to chime in right now, so I'm kind of curious. Andrea corporate Harris. I mean, you mentioned he's credited being the godfather of rock and roll and is vital in developing the Minneapolis sound. Could you elaborate on specific elements of his music that have been foundational to that sound?
[00:11:29] Speaker C: Yes. I love that question.
This is gonna sound like I'm bringing up a totally unrelated thing, but it's related. So when I was going through and doing research into Cornbread's life, I was going to all these different libraries and archives, trying to find pictures of him or mentions of him. And I found one of his old high school yearbooks. It was from the mechanic arts high in St. Paul. And he was pictured holding a tuba. And he had never told me that he played the tuba before. And I brought this picture to him, and I showed it to him. And his first reaction, we were sitting near his piano in his dining room, was, that's where I get that boogie woogie face in my hand. It all goes back to the tuba.
And I think what you just heard it in that recording of Kornbread playing piano with Augie Garcia. He has such a nimble left hand and really works the low end of the keyboard when he's playing and provides kind of his own rhythm section as he's playing piano. And I do think there is something about that bassline and the buoyancy of it and the way that it elevates the music that I think you can trace through all of the decades after 1955 and see how it kind of integrates itself into all these different styles of music. So I think that's a part of it. And then I think, just literally, the contributions that he made. To teaching his son, Jimmy jam. How to play piano. And to play drums with him. And was such a guiding light in that neighborhood. And that community of young kids coming up and becoming musicians. It's just kind of irrefutable that he had this influence on people as a teacher. And someone that already had that baseline knowledge of music theory. That he could pass on to all of these guys. That went on to become world famous.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: Yeah. I want to ask you more about his influence. On the local Minneapolis scene. So Kornbridge co wrote and performed on Hayo Silver.
[00:13:29] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: In regard as Minnesota's first rock and roll record. What influence did it have on the local music scene at this time?
[00:13:36] Speaker C: Well, the Augie Garcia band had a huge impact on the scene. They were playing down at the River Road club. Which used to be in Mendota, right on the river's edge. In this tiny little place. It basically looked like a roadhouse tavern. But four nights a week, they would play and pack the place with teenagers. And it became really one of the first local bands. That was drawing that kind of youth movement to go see live music. So that had its own legacy. That only built as you go into the late fifties and early sixties. As there's more of these rock bands, garage rock bands, r and b bands. That are drawing these huge crowds of kids. That are going out to experience live music for the first time.
And then. Yeah, beyond that, I think. I'm sorry, I just forgot what the beginning of your question was. I want to make sure I answer it.
[00:14:30] Speaker B: Just asking about how. What was his influence like on the local music scene?
[00:14:33] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Well, and then. So I would also say, add that when their record came out. It actually got some airplay regionally. And was perhaps, you know, one of the first local little kind of hits on the radio. So that also had a huge impact. In inspiring more young people. To form these kinds of bandst.
[00:14:54] Speaker B: I think Liz noted to me prior to coming onto the show here. So, I mean, I looked the song up before doing my research here. But there's a discrepancy in the title of the song, though. I was wondering, you talk about the history behind that.
[00:15:06] Speaker C: That's a funny thing, too. So on the 45, it's printed as high yo silver cornbread insisted to me multiple times that that was a misprint. And that they were actually singing high ho silver. So I put it as high ho silver in the book because this is cornbread's story and that's what he says it is. And, you know, at the time, it was a very diy kind of operation. This was before there were professional recording studios and before, you know, soma records or any of the kind of more professional labels were in Minnesota. So it was really music that they recorded at someone's house in St. Paul and had pressed up. And it very possible that there could be a typo on that kind of label.
[00:15:53] Speaker D: Now, I read something. It may have been in your book about it also being called High Ho sliver. Have you heard about that?
[00:16:01] Speaker C: I haven't heard that one.
[00:16:03] Speaker D: Oh, no. I must be wrong about that then.
Yeah, I must be wrong about that.
[00:16:09] Speaker B: I want to take you back down. You mentioned him playing tuba back in high school. I was wondering if you could go a little further in establishing the foundation of cornbread style, I think, in his childhood. How does his experiences, including his struggles and the influence of his grandparents, shape his musical journey?
[00:16:25] Speaker C: Well, Cornbread had a really rough beginning to his life. He lost both parents when he was three and he was born in Chicago, which. So I always thought that was kind of interesting, that going to Chicago is his first big recording.
So he was shuffled around to all of these foster homes throughout his whole childhood. Didn't end up in St. Paul until he was about eleven, where he reconnected with his grandparents who lived here. And.
And then they got him into a catholic school, actually, St. Bernard's in St. Paul, and that's where he started taking piano lessons. But he told me that it wasn't really until he started going into the Rondo neighborhood of St. Paul and checking out some of these restaurants and clubs and different places that had jukeboxes where he fell in love with the blues. And it was this combination of classical training and learning music theory and how to read music and all these things. And then this real love of the blues and all these emerging jazz sounds that were coming out as he was coming of age.
And that's where he really figured out that he had his own approach to making music that he really enjoyed, that he liked to learn all these kind of pop songs of the day, but play them in a more blues style. And I think you can hear that throughout his catalog that he, he's really drawn to just beautiful melodies. He loves ballads. He loves anything with like a really good hook. But then he'll improvise over it and put it over blues chord changes so that it really has this kind of cornbread style to it.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: There's an anecdote in your book about cornbread skipping music lessons as a child. How does the story reflect his early relationship with music and authority, do you think?
[00:18:17] Speaker C: He has a very strong, independent spirit. I know this about him as a 97 year old. You don't really tell him what to do or how to do it. And he's always had that about him, I think so. There was a conflict pretty early on as he was being forced to take piano lessons. He ended up basically lying to his grandmother and saying, oh, sure, I'm taking the money you're giving me and going to my lesson. But he'd actually go to the store down the street and buy candy and fruit and go down to the park and play with his friends while he was supposed to be at the lesson. And he eventually got caught. And he loved to tell this story, but then he was pretty surprised, as was I, when I went digging in the newspaper archives and I found a little mention of him being celebrated as a star pupil by this teacher. So even though, you know, he didn't enjoy it, I think the talent was there from an early age.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: I think right now, should we go into one of the tracks? You mentioned going to Chicago. Should we go into that one, or what do you think?
[00:19:17] Speaker D: We played that.
[00:19:18] Speaker C: We heard that.
That was the rockin one.
[00:19:22] Speaker D: Okay, how about deeper blues? Is that what we get next?
Let's do that one.
[00:19:47] Speaker E: The point of attack is behind the back.
Treat him any way that you choose to take a little time off. Don't hurry back.
Cause you ain't got nothing, nothing to lose eat at his table, your children and you know that he's able and he wants to do for you.
So dog him you know you got it made why don't you go ahead and hurt him and then ask him how you doing, babe?
Never, never show him the way that you really feel.
Never, never tell him that your love is not real.
Promise to love him until the end.
And when you leave him ask him can we still be friends?
Change your mind, apologize.
Tell him you did not realize.
Put him through some changes.
Make him pay his dues. You find out he really loves you.
Teach him the deeper blues.
Shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up one more time, baby I said the point of attack is behind the back.
Treating me the way that you choose.
Take some time off, don't hurry back.
Cause you ain't got nothing to lose.
Eat at his table, your children and you, you know that he's able and he wants to do for you so dog him how you know you got it made and when you heard him ask him how you doing, babe?
Never, never show him the way that you feel never, never tell him that your love is not real promise to love him until the end and when you split ask him can we still be friends?
Change your mind, apologize tell him you did not realize put him through some changes make him pay his dues when you find out he really loves you teach him the deeper blue damn to shut up when I die.
[00:25:35] Speaker C: Shut up.
[00:25:42] Speaker E: And let go.
[00:26:30] Speaker C: I'm John Sonti, host of this is pop.
[00:26:33] Speaker B: This is a wave project show that celebrates power pop, characterized by jangly guitars, driving beats, soaring harmonies and sticky choruses. We'll hear some classics as well as.
[00:26:44] Speaker C: Tracks from today's power poppers. Join me for this is Pop this Sunday at 10:00 a.m.
[00:27:02] Speaker A: You are listening to KFAi, 90.3 FM in Minneapolis and streaming on the
[email protected]. dot I'm Eric Bushnell, and this is your what's happening calendar of literary events brought to you by the rain taxi review of books on Wednesday, August 14, from six to 07:00 p.m. at next chapter booksellers in Minneapolis, Ernesto Londonio will present Trippie, the peril and promise of medicinal psychedelics in conversation with Curtis Sittenfeld. On Wednesday, August 14, seven to 08:00 p.m. at Mages and Quinn booksellers in Minneapolis, conduit presents minds on Fire Live, featuring Emily August, Paul D. Dickinson and Rachel Moretz.
On Thursday, August 15, seven to 08:00 p.m. at majors and Quinn booksellers in Minneapolis, Sara Gerard will present Carolyn Caricocco, my friend, her murder and an obsession with the unthinkable.
On Friday, August 16, eight to 11:00 p.m. at the Cedar Cultural center in Minneapolis, Andrea Swensen will present deeper Blues, the Life, songs and salvation of Cornbread Harris on Saturday, August 17, at the Kauffman Memorial Union on the UMN campus. Find rain taxi at the 2024 Autumn Autoptic Festival the Autoptic festival is an independent, biennial festival celebrating the best of DIY print culture with an emphasis on comics, zines, posters and other printed materials.
On Saturday, August 17, 1030 to 1115 at Wild Rumpus Books in Minneapolis, Miriam Moore Quiche will present her new board book, everybody is different, followed by a toddler dance party.
On Saturday, August 17, from two to 03:00 p.m.
at Eat My Words bookstore in Minneapolis, Ted King will present his latest book, Modern Problems.
On Saturday, August 17, seven to 09:00 p.m. at Metronome Brewery in St. Paul, Brendan Sturmer will read from his poetry collection forgotten frequencies, accompanied by an electronic score performed live by Miami bass composer Andy Sturmer and interspersed with original music from Melina Handieton. On Sunday, August 18, two to 03:00 p.m. at Big Hill Books in Minneapolis, Emily Hough and Megan Keller will present scenic science of the national parks. On Monday, August 19, seven to 08:00 p.m. at majors and Quinn booksellers in Minneapolis, June Thomas will present a place of our own, six spaces that shaped queer women's culture. In conversation with Krista Burton, this has been your what's happening? Calendar of literary events brought to you by the rain taxi review of books. There are many other events you can check out at the rain taxi
[email protected]. and now this.
[00:30:36] Speaker B: Okay everyone, we are back to write on radio. We have Andrea Swenson in studio talking about her new book, deeper Blues, the life songs and salvation of Kornbread Harris. Before we started with the cart and the reading of the rain taxi literary calendar, we listened to deeper blues. Kornbread considers deeper blues one of his songwriting jewels. What does this song reveal about his experiences and emotions, do you think? Andrea?
[00:31:01] Speaker C: Oh, it's such a deep song for, I mean, not to be a play on words, but it really gets at a lot of the struggles that Cornbread has had throughout his life with relationships. He has sacrificed so much to be a musician. For much of his life, he was working full time and often multiple jobs during the day at different foundries and places around town, and then would play music at night. And that kind of schedule is very demanding for anyone, but especially someone who is married and someone who has children. And it caused a lot of friction and trouble for him over the years in his various marriages. So I think the fact that that has endured is one of his favorite songs and one that he always plays every single show, and he's incredibly proud of as an arrangement.
I think it speaks to the sacrifices that he has made throughout his life in order to, you know, be a musician. It's his true calling, and it's something that he's devoted his, his whole day to day life, too. So it's, it's very profound. And I've really gotten a lot out of listening to him play it over and over again. Every week he'll play it at different lengths sometimes he'll just play the opening chords and talk a little bit about how much he loves just the sound of it, and then other weeks, he'll go into the full, you know, lyrics and. And the whole storytelling aspect of it. And, yeah, it's. It's very personal to him.
[00:32:38] Speaker B: What was the significance of Corma playing deeper blues for his son?
We can talk about how Jimmy jam reacted to it.
[00:32:46] Speaker C: Yeah, well, he for sure wanted to play that for Jimmy as one of the first songs that he ever got a chance to play for him. So we started connecting with Cornbread and Jimmy over Zoom. We did that for many months before they were finally in person again. And that was something that he really wanted. He really wanted Jimmy to listen closely to. And he also. It was important to him that Jimmy was learning how to play it. He was showing him. He'd have me put the camera on his hands. He'd talk about what chords he was playing, and he really wanted that to be passed down to him and for them to play it together when they finally were able to perform on stage together. And I think part of it is he's just really proud of it as an arrangement and as a composition, but I think there's also part of it that is explaining to his son who he lost for so many years before, you know, being able to be reconnected, that there was this hardship and that it was really difficult for him to, you know, remain in relationships, in close relationships. Jimmy, his parents, Cornbread and Bertha, separated when he was 15, and Cornbread moved out of the house, and that was kind of when their estrangement began about 50 years ago now. So I think to be able to reflect on that experience, you know, from Cornbread's point of view through his music, it's really significant.
[00:34:11] Speaker B: You just mentioned how so cornbread performing these long hours and for days on end strained a lot of his personal relationships and was a strain on his marriages.
When you talk to Cormac about this, has he commented how his dedication to music affected his personal relationships over the years?
[00:34:32] Speaker C: Yeah, it's something that we've talked about a lot, and I think he always brings it all the way back to his childhood and the trauma of losing his parents and not getting to know who his parents were. I think it really affected him and how he relates to people, and it just makes it even more painful for him that there have been so many relationships that have crumbled in his life, but he is also. He comes at everything now in hindsight, from just such a place of positivity. He has found himself, at age 97, reconnected with his son. He's been married to his wife now for 30 years. He had married and divorced several times before that, but now he's been in this really long term relationship, and his daughter is also active in his life.
And he looks back on all of these ups and downs as blessings. That's where his whole mantra comes in. I am a blessed dude and that he wouldn't be the person he is today and as happy as he is now if he hadn't gone through all of those hardships.
[00:35:42] Speaker D: He's very involved with his church, the Zion Baptist church.
How does that affect him? I know he says he's a blessed dude. Does that really bring him a lot of joy and peace?
[00:35:56] Speaker C: Absolutely. His faith is very important to him. He credits his oldest daughter, Cynthia, with bringing him to the church and getting him more involved in religion. She sadly passed away at age 55, about 20 years ago to cancer. So that was a big heartbreak for him as well. And he talks a lot about how she just had this really good spirit and nature about her and was such a good person, and that made him want to explore his faith and become more active in going to church. And he's now an honorary deacon at the Zion Baptist Church, which is one of the oldest historic black churches in the Twin Cities. It's really close to where he lives, so he would never miss a service. He's there every Sunday morning before going to Palmer's every Sunday afternoon for his church of Cornbread. So, yes, he's a very, very spiritual person. He loves to talk about his relationship with God and the gratitude that he feels for all of his blessings. That's a core part of his life now.
[00:37:02] Speaker D: Well, in the title, you say salvation, so where is that in the title? Where does that come from, that particular idea?
[00:37:12] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's really closely related to his relationship with his daughter and the church and becoming more religious as time went on. He was not. I think he's always been active in various churches throughout his life and especially as a musician, but it really wasn't until maybe the last 30 years of his life that he's become more spiritually minded and committed to going to church and going to Bible studies and really learning as much as he can about that.
So now I think it's just so woven into just this path that life has taken him down, where he's really come into a chapter that is very peaceful and where he's found a resolution to a lot of the tension that he experienced throughout his life.
[00:38:02] Speaker D: Now, in the book, you talk about your rather humbly, I think, about your role in getting cornbread and Jimmy together. Could you talk a little bit about that? Here's your time to brag.
[00:38:19] Speaker C: Well, I always say I'm a facilitator. It's really the two of them that got to places in their lives where they wanted this to happen. And it was just such a great honor for me to be able to provide that for them. Really, all they needed was a lady to bring an iPad over to Cornbread's house and get them online and, you know, make sure that everyone knew what time we were going to connect. And that's the kind of stuff I've been doing, you know, to get them just chatting. And it's really been just such a delight to watch the almost mundane interactions between them. A lot of times, they'll just talk about things that, well, I shouldn't say mundane for Jimmy jam, because he'll catch us up on his past week, and it's like, yeah, I went to this star studded party and then had this session with this celebrity. His life is really incredible. So cornbread really loves to hear about that. But then there's always a part in their conversation where they're just talking about really simple stuff. Like, remember when, you know, back in the sixties, we used to watch this on tv or we would eat this or go to this restaurant, and it's very nostalgic, and it's very pure and sweet, and they just, like, hanging out and, you know, having that time together. So a lot of what I've been doing is just kind of keeping that channel of communication open and really encouraging them to continue doing that regularly. I think we've probably had over 40 Zoom calls, the three of us, where they can just kind of hang out, and it's so nice to see, and you can just see the joy that it brings both of them.
[00:40:07] Speaker D: Cool.
[00:40:08] Speaker C: Cool. Yeah.
[00:40:10] Speaker B: On that topic, then, how does. I was wondering if you could go into detail how cornbread approaches teaching and sharing his music with others.
[00:40:18] Speaker C: Mmm. He loves to be the teacher.
I've noticed this about Jimmy, too. They both have this. There's something about them where they really like to impart wisdom on others and tell stories that have, like, big life lessons in them. And Kornbread has, for decades now, had piano students. He still does to this day, teach people out of his home at age 97. He's got a couple. Yeah, a couple students. He has one woman who brings her whole family. I think there's four or five kids that come and take lessons from him, and. And another woman just started. I just ran into her the other day as I was coming out of my weekly meeting with him. And he just loves passing on what he knows. And I've heard from his students that he could be a little harsh. He's got really specific ideas about what it means, especially to play the blues and jazz and music that's rooted in, you know, black cultural traditions. And how to impart your own voice and emotion onto the music. And not get caught up in just playing it correctly or too rigidly. And if you aren't doing it, he will tell you.
But he gets a lot of joy out of being that kind of guiding light for people.
[00:41:37] Speaker B: I want to change gears a little bit and talk a bit more about Kornbread's career. How did Kornbread's collaboration with Jill Rowe. In the ice blue blues band. Differ from his other music, musical projects?
[00:41:49] Speaker C: Yeah, so, you know, we talked about Augie Garcia, and then Kornbread had a couple decades. Where he was really a solo artist, but leading little bands, trios, and things under his own name. And under the name Huckleberry Finn, Cornbread and friends. That was a band that he led through the seventies, but with the Ice Blue blues band. He described that as one of the first times since Augie. That he had a true collaborator, where they were writing music together. And it was really rooted specifically in the blues in a way that he hadn't before. Because before he was playing almost like, as a lounge act, like, there would be blues in his music. But it was really meant to be, like, a lot of ballads and things that were very accessible to people that were playing in. Or that were eating in whatever restaurant he was playing in, usually at that time. So with the. The blues band, they were able to really focus in and say, we're gonna dig into traditional blues. And write new music that is in line with this genre. And it was at such an interesting time, because at that point in the mid eighties. That he met Joe Rowe. Jimmy Jam had become Jimmy Jam, you know, and was producing hits for Alexandra O'Neill and Sherrell, and so's band. And Prince had become, you know, globally famous at that point with Purple Rain.
And then here were these black artists in north Minneapolis, where they came from, playing traditional blues music. And really struggling to find any kind of support or audience. I think it really highlighted the divide between the Minneapolis sound that incorporated blues, along with all of these other influences. And then black artists playing traditional blues music at that time, which had become a little uncool, I guess you would say.
[00:43:39] Speaker B: So cornbread and Rowe also sought to preserve black blues in the Twin Cities. How did they work towards this goal?
[00:43:46] Speaker C: Well, just by trying to, you know, perform on stages that were starting to be kind of over it. I know in an interview that they both gave in the eighties, talking about forming their band, they said, you know, there's musicians, blues musicians who can go to, like, a Chicago or New York and play for hundreds, if not thousands of people, but they come to the Twin Cities and you maybe get 50 people turning out to this kind of music. So they were really trying to champion getting blues heard on local stages. And I think it was when they found the Riverview supper Club, that's where they had their biggest success, connecting with local audiences. And that was a black owned club on the shore of the Mississippi river in north Minneapolis. And that was a really good thing for them at that point. But it was a struggle, you know, they were very overlooked, I would say, in the scene, I think if.
[00:44:42] Speaker B: Do we have a track loaded up from the ice blue blues band?
[00:44:46] Speaker C: I don't think we have. I have not actually heard any of their music. Yeah, apparently, if I. If I could dig deep enough into cornbread's basement, I might come across a cassette tape. But I, you know, for all of my effort over the last three years, I actually haven't heard any of their recordings.
[00:45:02] Speaker B: That's impressive. I mean, wow.
[00:45:04] Speaker C: I know. Yeah.
If anyone listening has any idea where we might find some. Yeah, I know that they made a demo tape, but I have not heard it.
[00:45:16] Speaker B: Corporates played in various genres and venues over the years.
How did his versatility as a musician contribute to his longevity in the industry, do you think?
[00:45:28] Speaker C: Well, I think there's something about his music that's kind of timeless. When I listen to, especially, like, putting together this record, which is eight tracks spanning 67 years of his career, which is wild to think about, it's even wilder that that's not his whole career.
There's something really similar to the different eras of his career and the music that he's played. And I think because it's rooted in, you know, the great american songbook and jazz and just really pure, beautifully written pop songs. There's just kind of a timeless quality to it.
[00:46:09] Speaker D: Back to the historical and not so historical, really. I'm curious.
You had a lot to do with Jimmy damn cornbread getting together and also the concert.
[00:46:22] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:46:23] Speaker D: And I'm wondering a little bit about the concert, if you could talk about that. And also, what did it feel like to be there?
[00:46:30] Speaker C: Are you talking about his 95th birthday? Yeah. When Jimmy came home, that was.
It was surreal, honestly, because, you know, we had been talking about it for quite a long time at that point, and we were about a year into working on the book and everything and getting Jimmy, you know, more involved and talking to his dad again. So to actually see them together, I mean, cornbread kept saying, I'm just euphoric. It's like I'm floating in the air. And I think he really was just having, like, a full body high. Like, I can't even believe this is happening. And then when I went into the audience to sit down and watch them perform, I just kept thinking, like, it feels like that. Like the dramatic end to a movie. Like, everyone in the whole cast is here, and everything's going. Everything's gonna be okay. And it just. It was so wonderful, and it had such a positive feeling about it. Like, they're both just so grateful to be together again and to play. And then there was this one moment towards the end of the show where I think they had just played put the world back together and had this really beautiful sing along. And it's one of another one of my favorite songs of Cornbread's, which I think we have a version of to play. And so they were at the end, and it was really quiet, and, you know, the whole sold out crowd was just hanging on, you know, each note that they played, and then Jimmy just played a little bit on his organ, and there was a pause, and then Kornbread played the same little lineback, but added a little bit to it. And then they did it a little bit more, and just. You could feel, like, the air in the room. Everyone was just like, oh, my God, they're talking to each other. And that is how they communicate, and it's like a different language that's all their own. And I looked around, and everyone was crying, because it just felt so moving to see father and son communing on stage and sharing that gift with each other and with the crowd. And, yeah, for me, it was just a really surreal and beautiful, and there was a lot of tears, kind of.
[00:48:40] Speaker D: A tender heart moment.
[00:48:42] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure.
[00:48:44] Speaker D: What was the song that it's called?
[00:48:46] Speaker C: Put the world back together.
[00:48:48] Speaker D: Do we have that? How much time?
Three minutes. You want to play that, Josh?
[00:48:53] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:48:54] Speaker D: It'd be nice to kind of start to wrap up with that song.
[00:49:01] Speaker E: Haven't we had enough debate did I hear someone say let's wait?
Why don't we get together before it's too late to put the world back together?
Put the world back together?
Put the world back together again right in the country sounds insane smell your polluted water feel your acid rain cut down your forest why don't you plant them back again? I said put the world back together?
Put the world back together?
Put the world back together again?
Politicians are talking fear and hate heard someone say let's have a war blow them all away that's stupid can't you hear me when I say put the world back together?
Put the world back together?
Put the world back together again all put the world back together?
Put the world back together?
Put the world back together again one last time?
Put the world back together?
Put the world back together?
Put the world back together again.
[00:52:33] Speaker D: Well, we're all here singing along, Andrea.
[00:52:37] Speaker B: So that made me wonder, how does the interaction with audiences during live performances shape Cornbread's approach to playing?
[00:52:45] Speaker C: Oh, he loves any interaction with the audience. It really feeds him. You can see it. And that recording is so funny to me because I was sitting next to him in the studio, and he kept motioning to me to try to sing along. And he's used to everyone at, you know, any show he's playing singing along, and I did not want to ruin the recording, so I refused. And he kept waving at me, like, come on.
But I'm so glad that we have that. You know what? It's basically one of the only recordings of him alone at the piano with nothing else interfering with just him and his instruments, which I think is really beautiful. But he definitely relies on a lot of call and response, and I've noticed that even in his life, he just loves a lot of banter. He's very quick witted, especially considering that he's 97. He loves kind of tossing balls back and forth verbally and telling jokes. And in concert, he really loves doing call and response with his band and then egging the audience on to sing along or to respond to something that he's doing. And, yeah, it's really one of the core parts of him as a performer. I think he really just truly loves people, and he loves involving them in his music.
[00:53:57] Speaker B: What legacy does Cornbread hope to leave behind, do you think? Or what are his aspirations for the future?
[00:54:04] Speaker C: I've asked him a lot about his legacy, and he refuses to answer the question. He says he's headed to the great eternity where we all go when we die, and that he doesn't care what happens here on earth. But I do know in the process of working on the book and putting out a record, you know, with his collaboration, he really feels that it's significant that people will have the opportunity to learn about him and especially to hear his music. So I think he's very happy to know that, you know, moving forward, he will continue to be celebrated and remembered. And he just today mentioned how honored he'll be to be in a library, that the book's going to be in libraries.
So there's definitely a part of him that appreciates that, but then another part of him that is very at peace with whatever comes next.
[00:54:58] Speaker B: Cornbread. This is my last question. I think Cornbread performs on a regular basis at 97. What do you think still drives his relentless pursuit of music?
[00:55:09] Speaker C: I think it's hard to say without sounding kind of corny, but I really do think that music gives him life. I mean, I've seen this with my own eyes over and over again. You know, that journey from home to the piano bench at Palmer's is getting to be a long one for cornbread. It's hard to move around when you're 97, but as soon as he sits down, he comes alive. You can see he's totally electrified by playing, by being around people, by applause, by people singing with him. It really feeds something in his soul, and I think that is what keeps them going, honestly.
[00:55:51] Speaker D: Well, it's about time for us to wrap things up, but I was wondering if you let our listeners know if you have a website and about your podcasts and where they can reach you.
[00:56:02] Speaker C: Sure. Well, my website is just my name, andreaswenson, s o n.com. i sell signed copies of my book there, all my books, actually, and I really love sending people personalized copies. So I'd be happy to sign a book for you and send it to you. And then we just set up a band camp page for Cornbread so that people can find this album. So you can actually order the book and the record from there as well in a bundle, just because we really want people to hear his music. And you can also sample the tracks on his bandcamp page if you want to hear more.
[00:56:39] Speaker B: And I want to also note, so there's the book launch events happening this upcoming Friday, but it's sold out.
[00:56:44] Speaker C: Yes, just yesterday. Yeah. But we do have more events coming up. One I'm really excited about is September 12 at springboard for the Arts in St. Paul. It's part of the Ramsey County Historical Society's history remembered series. Kornbread and I will both be there, and it's gonna be really nice.
[00:57:03] Speaker B: Then also, September 25, major St. Quinn, you'll be in conversation with Jim Walsh.
[00:57:07] Speaker C: Yes. Yeah. Writing mentor of mine for many years. That's gonna be good.
[00:57:11] Speaker D: Now, should people call majors and Quinn and make reservations so that they don't.
[00:57:17] Speaker C: Lose out on that one, I think is just a show up and it's free. Yep.
Yeah. But the, I should mention that the springboard for the arts show, it is ticketed, so it'd be good to reserve a ticket for that one.
[00:57:31] Speaker B: This has been our time talking to Andrea Swenson about her new book, deaver the Life, songs and salvation of cornbread Harris, available now wherever books are sold. Andrea, thanks for being on the program.
[00:57:42] Speaker D: Thank you. Thank you so much.
[00:57:44] Speaker C: Thanks so much for having me. It was a blast.
[00:57:46] Speaker B: And now this.
[00:57:50] Speaker C: Hey, lady J.
[00:57:51] Speaker D: Guess what I'm doing. Friday, August 30 I don't know, Bambi, Alexandra, what's the buzz?
[00:57:56] Speaker C: Well, I'm the featured performer on the first ever KFAI blues cruise. Leaving from the wide marina in St.
[00:58:05] Speaker D: Paul, Kfair is hosting a blue screws. Tell me more.
[00:58:09] Speaker C: The boat is called the Magnolia Blossom.
[00:58:11] Speaker D: And our boat ride will be from 07:30 p.m. to 09:30 p.m. taken off.
[00:58:15] Speaker C: From Crosby Farm park on Shepherd Road.
[00:58:18] Speaker D: But spots are limited, so folks better get on board. Now they can get more info on the kfAI
[email protected].
[00:58:29] Speaker C: Backslash cruise. You know what else would be fun? If you were the emcee for this first ever Kfai blues cruise.
[00:58:37] Speaker D: Well, Miss Bambi, I think I can make that happen. See you Friday, August 30 at 07:30 p.m. for the first ever KfAI blues cruise to celebrate the end of summer.
[00:58:48] Speaker E: More info at KFAI 90.3 FM, Minneapolis St. Paul.
[00:59:12] Speaker A: You have been listening to right on radio on KFAI 90.3 FM in Minneapolis and streaming live
[email protected]. dot I'm Eric and we would like to thank Andrea Swenson and all our listeners. Without your support, KFAI would not be possible. Now stay tuned for Bonjour, Minnesota.
